"In the beginning..."

[Grafted In]

"In the beginning""

How does this 3 word phrase, which opens Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1, differ in meaning?

 

[Yarddog]

"In the beginning""

How does this 3 word phrase, which opens Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1, differ in meaning?

No difference.

 

[Grafted In]

Hi, Yarddog.
I was beginning to think no one was going to respond.
If, then, they mean technically the same in both that's written down in Genisis about our planet and system, in Hebrew , means the same as Jesus, who had no beginning, means in Aramaic, or whatever language it was originally inspired by God to be written in John.
If the 2 groups of words that make up the 2 accounts, then the universe has always existed, one might suspect.

 

[David Lamb]

Hi, Yarddog.
I was beginning to think no one was going to respond.
If, then, they mean technically the same in both that's written down in Genisis about our planet and system, in Hebrew , means the same as Jesus, who had no beginning, means in Aramaic, or whatever language it was originally inspired by God to be written in John.
If the 2 groups of words that make up the 2 accounts, then the universe has always existed, one might suspect.

Not so, The Greek words used in John 1:1 for "in the beginning" don't mean the same as "Jesus". That's like saying that in the sentence, "Last Tuesday Tom played cricket," "last Tuesday" must mean the same as "Tom", but of course it does't.

John 1:1 says:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (Joh 1:1 NKJV)

I'm told that the Greek words translated "in the beginning" are "en arche" which mean "in the beginning". They don't mean "Jesus".

 

[Grafted In]

Forgive me please. I'm just think I need more in terms of when time began.
Jesus Christ is eternal.
I was hoping to determine when He created time.

 

[David Lamb]

Forgive me please. I'm just think I need more in terms of when time began.
Jesus Christ is eternal.
I was hoping to determine when He created time.

As far as I know, the bible doesn't mention the creation of time. Before God created anything, there was only God, and we are told in Isaiah the He inhabits eternity, so presumably there was no time before He began creating:

“For thus says the High and Lofty One Who inhabits eternity, whose name [is] Holy: "I dwell in the high and holy [place], With him [who] has a contrite and humble spirit, To revive the spirit of the humble, And to revive the heart of the contrite ones.” (Isa 57:15 NKJV)

As soon as He has begun creating, we read:

“So the evening and the morning were the first day.” (Ge 1:5 NKJV)

For there to be a day, morning and evening, there had to be time, so I would say that God created time at the beginning of Creation.

 

[Doug Brents]

Hi, Yarddog.
I was beginning to think no one was going to respond.
If, then, they mean technically the same in both that's written down in Genisis about our planet and system, in Hebrew , means the same as Jesus, who had no beginning, means in Aramaic, or whatever language it was originally inspired by God to be written in John.
If the 2 groups of words that make up the 2 accounts, then the universe has always existed, one might suspect.

"In the Beginning..." means the same in both cases.
In the beginning, God (who already existed) created the universe.
In the beginning, the Word (Jesus) already existed as God, and everything that was made was made by and through Him.

Both of the verse refer to the same time (the Beginning), and both of them indicate that there was a deity (God the Father and Jesus the Son (and the Spirit mentioned elsewhere)) who made everything that is this universe.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Both Gen 1:1 and Jn 1:1 declare God's eternal existence (no beginning), his immutability (unchangeable in every aspect), and aseity (uncreated, self-sufficient. Genesis speaks of God's creation and John speaks of God's plan of redemption through his Son.

The universe has not always existed. It began when God created it in Gen 1:1. Jesus is eternally existent with the Father.

Before anything was created, there was only eternity with no beginning or end. God is therefore ageless and exists in the "eternal present" meaning that God exists at every point of time simultaneously.

Time began the moment something was created. At that point there is a "time stamp" whereby one could measure time. At the point that a material object is existent, one must have a "Space" for its existence.

 

[Grafted In]

In any case, the sun and moon had not yet been created.
Not until the 4th day.
Are we to assume He had already created the 24 hour day, prior to creating the sun and moon.
Please lead me to the verse.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

In any case, the sun and moon had not yet been created.
Not until the 4th day.
Are we to assume He had already created the 24 hour day, prior to creating the sun and moon.
Please lead me to the verse.

There is no verse saying that God created a 24-hour day but such is implicit when it is stated "...and evening and morning were the first day" and so forth. There is no telling whether the length of a day on a pre-flood earth was 24 hours, a little shorter (20 hours) or a little longer (30 hours). all we know is that the observable day as we know it now is 24 hours and has been throughout history as we know it.

Question for you though: What was the "Light" that God created on the first day? Where is this "Light" now? Whatever this light is, it was used to mark the passing days of creation.

 

[Diamond72]

How does this 3 word phrase, which opens Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1, differ in meaning?

This video explains HOW God used Hebrew to create the Universe. Jesus existed before the beginning. Even the angles rejoiced in the beginning.

 

[Diamond72]

In any case, the sun and moon had not yet been created.
Not until the 4th day.

The fourth day is a referance to the atmosphere and the effect they have on the sun and the moon. If you want to see what the earth was like the first three days then you can go to the moon and see the conditions there. We could write a book on this but I will keep it brief.

The Moon is drastically different from Earth in terms of its atmosphere:

• Earth's Atmosphere: Earth has a thick atmosphere composed mainly of nitrogen (78%) and oxygen (21%), with trace amounts of other gases like carbon dioxide. This atmosphere protects life, regulates temperature, and helps sustain breathable air.
• Moon's Atmosphere: The Moon has no significant atmosphere. It has a very thin, almost negligible exosphere made up of small amounts of helium, neon, hydrogen, and other trace gases, but it’s so thin that it's almost a vacuum. This lack of atmosphere means there’s no air to breathe, no weather, and no protection from the Sun’s radiation or meteor impacts.

In short, Earth has a dense, life-sustaining atmosphere, while the Moon has an extremely thin, almost non-existent exosphere.

God created plants on the third day and they created oxygen to form an atmosphere on the fourth day.

1. Symbolic Parallels in the Creation Narrative: In a broader theological sense, the plants' oxygen production on the "third day" can be interpreted as laying the groundwork for the life-sustaining "breath" that God would give Adam, underscoring the intimate and intentional relationship between the natural world and humanity. The "breath of life" represents not just physical life but the spiritual vitality that comes from God, with plants and nature playing their role in sustaining the material aspect of that life.

In summary, the plants' production of oxygen on the "third day" can be seen as creating the essential conditions for life, setting the stage for the "breath of life" given to Adam, which is not only a biological function but also a symbol of spiritual vitality and connection to the Creator. This connection illustrates a layered and holistic view of life, both physical and spiritual, within the Genesis narrative.

 

[David Lamb]

This video explains HOW God used Hebrew to create the Universe. Jesus existed before the beginning. Even the angles rejoiced in the beginning.

We certainly are not told in the bible what language God used to speak Creation into existence. Why should He use Hebrew, a language of some of the humans that hadn't even been created yet? Incidentally, I think you meant "Even the angels rejoiced", not angles.

 

[David Lamb]

The fourth day is a referance to the atmosphere and the effect they have on the sun and the moon. If you want to see what the earth was like the first three days then you can go to the moon and see the conditions there. We could write a book on this but I will keep it brief.

The Moon is drastically different from Earth in terms of its atmosphere:

• Earth's Atmosphere: Earth has a thick atmosphere composed mainly of nitrogen (78%) and oxygen (21%), with trace amounts of other gases like carbon dioxide. This atmosphere protects life, regulates temperature, and helps sustain breathable air.
• Moon's Atmosphere: The Moon has no significant atmosphere. It has a very thin, almost negligible exosphere made up of small amounts of helium, neon, hydrogen, and other trace gases, but it’s so thin that it's almost a vacuum. This lack of atmosphere means there’s no air to breathe, no weather, and no protection from the Sun’s radiation or meteor impacts.

In short, Earth has a dense, life-sustaining atmosphere, while the Moon has an extremely thin, almost non-existent exosphere.

God created plants on the third day and they created oxygen to form an atmosphere on the fourth day.

1. Symbolic Parallels in the Creation Narrative: In a broader theological sense, the plants' oxygen production on the "third day" can be interpreted as laying the groundwork for the life-sustaining "breath" that God would give Adam, underscoring the intimate and intentional relationship between the natural world and humanity. The "breath of life" represents not just physical life but the spiritual vitality that comes from God, with plants and nature playing their role in sustaining the material aspect of that life.

In summary, the plants' production of oxygen on the "third day" can be seen as creating the essential conditions for life, setting the stage for the "breath of life" given to Adam, which is not only a biological function but also a symbol of spiritual vitality and connection to the Creator. This connection illustrates a layered and holistic view of life, both physical and spiritual, within the Genesis narrative.

But that is not what Genesis says. Describing what happened on Day 4, it says:

“Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; "and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so. Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. [He made] the stars also. God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that [it was] good. So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.” (Ge 1:14-19 NKJV)

 

[Diamond72]

But that is not what Genesis says.

But that is not what Genesis says. Describing what happened on Day 4, it says:

“Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens

That is exactly what Genesis says. The key word here is firmament.
The term "firmament" in this context comes from the Bible, specifically Genesis 1:14-19, which describes the fourth day of creation. The firmament is often understood to mean the sky or heavens, essentially the expanse that separates the waters above from the waters below.

Key Points about the Firmament:​

1. Translation and Meaning: The word "firmament" is translated from the Hebrew word "rāqîaʿ," which means an expanse or something spread out. In ancient cosmology, it was thought of as a solid dome or vault.
2. Function: In Genesis, the firmament is created by God to separate the "waters above" from the "waters below" and to hold the celestial bodies (sun, moon, and stars). It serves as a division and a support for the heavens.
3. Day Four of Creation: On this day, God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night," and He created the sun, moon, and stars to give light upon the earth and to mark seasons, days, and years.

Historical Context:​

• Ancient Cosmology: The concept of the firmament reflects the ancient understanding of the universe, where the sky was perceived as a solid dome with lights (stars) embedded in it. This was a common view in many ancient cultures.
• Theological Significance: The firmament's creation underscores the order and structure God imposed on the cosmos, making the heavens an integral part of the created world.

Understanding these terms helps in grasping the ancient worldview and the theological messages conveyed in the Genesis creation narrative. If you have more thoughts or questions on this, feel free to share!

 

[David Lamb]

I know what Genesis says about the firmament. However, I was replying to your comment: "The fourth day is a reference to the atmosphere and the effect they have on the sun and the moon." That seemed to imply that you believe that the sun, moon and stars were created before Day 4. I answered that Genesis 1:14-19 say that He created sun, moon and stars on Day 4.

 

[Diamond72]

That seemed to imply that you believe that the sun, moon and stars were created before Day 4. I answered that Genesis 1:14-19 say that He created sun, moon and stars on Day 4.

I do not agree with your translation and interpretation of the Bible. It looks like you do not agree with my translation and interpretation of the Bible. I go by what Science tells us. I have a defibrillator. Science is keeping me alive so we can have this conversation. If it were not for Science I died on Aug 09 2005. My wife called the fire department and they used their defibrillator to get my heart going again.

I believe this is why God is using Science to keep me alive. So I can serve Him to the best of my ability by helping others to understand what the Bible says. Actually I do not care what you believe. I am only here to defend what I believe. As you feel you need to defend what you believe to be true.

 

[David Lamb]

I do not agree with your translation and interpretation of the Bible. It looks like you do not agree with my translation and interpretation of the Bible. I go by what Science tells us. I have a defibrillator. Science is keeping me alive so we can have this conversation. If it were not for Science I died on Aug 09 2005. My wife called the fire department and they used their defibrillator to get my heart going again.

I believe this is why God is using Science to keep me alive. So I can serve Him to the best of my ability by helping others to understand what the Bible says. Actually I do not care what you believe. I am only here to defend what I believe. As you feel you need to defend what you believe to be true.

I think it is really great to know that a defibrillator, a scientific instrument, is keeping you alive. As you say you don't care what I believe, I'll leave it there.

 

[Diamond72]

I think it is really great to know that a defibrillator, a scientific instrument, is keeping you alive.

In the last year they had to do an ablation also. A low fat Diet is important also.

An Cardiac ablation is a treatment for irregular heartbeats, called arrhythmias. It uses heat or cold energy to create tiny scars in the heart. The scars block faulty heart signals and restore a typical heartbeat. My doctor explained it different. He said there was scar tissue in the heart and they go in and remove that scar tissue.

If my pulse gets below 50 then the difibulator is also a pace maker and it will pace my heart.

I do not do good to deal with this on a psychological level. They offer me tranqualizers but for now I am just going to do my best to pray my way though it and get the help I need from God to deal with it.