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If I don't pray to her that means"All nations will call me blessed" - Luke 1:48
Which church today does that and fullfills this prophecy??
Nuff said
Doesn't cut it for you. By your own admission then, you have made yourself your own pope and counsellor. And yet you have the audacity to criticize us.umm...derr...um..no, don't get it...and you know these 'oral' ones were passed down pure how? Sorry..DOES NOT cut it..it was what was being taught and written down for preservation. THAT Is all I have to say on that...
How could he say or write something contrary to what he was saying and writing?Do you see where Paul said either by word or the written? Does Paul speak with a forked tongue where He would say something contrary to what he wrote? Paul was an Aposlte. Sent one. Going from place to place. I am quite sure what He spoke did not differ from what He wrote. [/i]
You need to read that again my friend. I said that Paul would not say anything contrary to what He wrote.How could he say or write something contrary to what he was saying and writing?You should learn to think through your answers, this makes no sense whatsoever.
Again, why would Paul contradict what he was writing? Both oral and writen tradition are equally inspired by God. They are co-equal with each other, because they come from the same source.You need to read that again my friend. I said that Paul would not say anything contrary to what He wrote.
Also,. does it say anywhere in the bible that Mary sinned??? Please cite some verses..
Really, so to say that Mary was sinless would maker her only the second person in the history of mankind to live a life without sin. That is remarkable. The bible writers went through great pains making sure that everyone knew that Jesus was sinless, I would have expected no less for Mary. Mary herself said that she needed a savior.
With that said, show me some verses where the bible says that Mary was sinless, a life long virgin, and for that matter that she can interceed in prayers.
Any other sources of non-canonized, errant media are myth and legend.
Yeah just like the Rosary (not in the Bible), the Immaculate Conception (not in the Bible), the infallibility of the "pope" (not in the Bible), infant baptism (not in the Bible), purgatory (not in the Bible)....
You forgot one.
All doctrines must be explicitly stated in the bible (not in the bible)
Again, why would Paul contradict what he was writing? Both oral and writen tradition are equally inspired by God. They are co-equal with each other, because they come from the same source.
Also,. does it say anywhere in the bible that Mary sinned??? Please cite some verses..
Nuff said
My religion teaches that Peter was actually Jesus' dog He brought with Him from heaven. Now, show me in the Bible that proves that's not true!
Actually, if something was an "oral tradition" that was actually started during the days of the early church and the apostles, then we give weight to it - like worshipping on Sundays. However, when men start adding things hundreds of years later, like that Mary was sinless 1,854 years since the start of the church! Or the infallibility of the pope - that "doctrine" occurred at the same time because there was controversy when the pope stated that Mary was sinless! The rosary didnt come about for hundreds of years after the church started.
Dont give me garbage about "oral tradition" unless it REALLY was tradition handed down by the early church. I am not going to follow "doctrines" that men decided on hundreds of years later!
The Rosary is not a doctrine. I rarely practice the Rosary, it is not considered an essential element of salvation. Rather, it is a method of prayer. If you like it, it helps keep one spiritually focused, if you don't, then do what works, but to denounce it as a "tradition of men that contradicts Scripture" is just plain silly, because it isn't a part of Catholic doctrine. It is about as doctrinal as the flower arrangements on the altar during Mass. It ain't. Stop tipping at windmills, it will make your conversations much more productive and helpful.Actually, if something was an "oral tradition" that was actually started during the days of the early church and the apostles, then we give weight to it - like worshipping on Sundays. However, when men start adding things hundreds of years later, like that Mary was sinless 1,854 years since the start of the church! Or the infallibility of the pope - that "doctrine" occurred at the same time because there was controversy when the pope stated that Mary was sinless! The rosary didnt come about for hundreds of years after the church started.
Dont give me garbage about "oral tradition" unless it REALLY was tradition handed down by the early church. I am not going to follow "doctrines" that men decided on hundreds of years later!
Yes, Scripture states that Peter was a fisherman who didn't even know who Jesus was until Andrew introduced them.Does it say anywhere in the Bible that Peter was not actually Jesus' dog He brought with Him from heaven??? Please cite some verses..
Nuff said
Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are drawn from the same source, therefore they cannot contradict each other, unless you believe that God can confuse and contradict Himself.And don't forget. Tradition MUST be compare to scripture. If it departs from scripture, then is to be rejected.
Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are drawn from the same source, therefore they cannot contradict each other, unless you believe that God can confuse and contradict Himself.
You are assuming Sacred Tradition is a man made thing. it is not, it is a God made thing.
The Protevangelium is a book, not Tradition. Sacred Tradition is, simply speaking, a manner of interpreting Scripture. The Protevangelium has never been considered inspired. It contains wonderful information and it a good read, as it the Didache, and most of the writing of the ECFs. God controlled the canonization process, and I am not in a position to question His methods or reasons.So I asked you again, why doesn't the RCC canonize traditions like Protevangelium and others?
The Protevangelium is a book, not Tradition. Sacred Tradition is, simply speaking, a manner of interpreting Scripture. The Protevangelium has never been considered inspired. It contains wonderful information and it a good read, as it the Didache, and most of the writing of the ECFs. God controlled the canonization process, and I am not in a position to question His methods or reasons.
If you understand how Scripture came to be, you have to at least accept that for a very long time, the Scriptures we all just letters to communities. Even the Gospels took years to find their way into general use by the Christian communities. Until the books of the bible were set upon and generally accepted, they were considered just that, pastoral letters from Apostles to different communities that addressed certain problems, or generally gave support and encouragement (remember, Christians were being persecuted while these letters were being written and circulated). The most reliable form of teaching at the time was word of mouth teaching from the Apostles, then later the Bishops (episcopoi) and deacons (diakonoi) they appointed (Timothy, Philemon, and Stephen are good biblical examples). Now, they had the Old Testament available to them, and the most common form of Scriptures used in the areas that Paul was evangelizing was the Septuagint. Regardless of what one thinks about this version of Scripture, it is historically verifiable that this was the most commonly used version of Scripture at the time. This is why the Gospels of Luke and Mark go through a very detailed lineage of Jesus in their beginings, to show that their new message (the Gospel) was in synch with established belief. Paul debates with the Thessalonians for weeks before they reject his new teaching (oral tradition). The Bereans accept it, and are considered noble for it. But the fact of the matter remains, if you were to go by the letter of the established canon, there was something about the new message that was objectionable, therefore people who came to faith, did so in a combination of oral tradition and Inspired Scripture. The two are inseparable.As amazing as this might sound, I happen to agree with you. But tell me, in your learned experience, explain oral tradition/sacred tradition with regards to interpreting scripture.
The Rosary is not a doctrine. I rarely practice the Rosary, it is not considered an essential element of salvation. Rather, it is a method of prayer. If you like it, it helps keep one spiritually focused, if you don't, then do what works, but to denounce it as a "tradition of men that contradicts Scripture" is just plain silly, because it isn't a part of Catholic doctrine. It is about as doctrinal as the flower arrangements on the altar during Mass. It ain't. Stop tipping at windmills, it will make your conversations much more productive and helpful.
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