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"I'm not an expert, BUT......."

ivebeenshown

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'Degrading you to an animal'? They are only acknowledging scientific fact. We are mammals, animals, in the physical sense. Even if you just want to look at the bible, we are made of the same 'dirt' (whether you take that literally or not is up to you) as animals.

That is not to say we are spiritually animals, but that is outside of the realm of science. It would be another thing entirely if someone was saying "You are nothing more than an animal because humans have no spirit/soul."
 
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Naraoia

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TE (Theistic Evolution) does not make sense because human is not evolved from animal.

(Are you an animal? Surprisingly, many many people will answer: YES !)
Surprisingly

Could you cite me a reference which describe the change of a single-cell life to a multiple-cell life in a lab setting? I like to see it.
I'm pretty sure I've given it already, since I pull it out all the time. Nevertheless, here it is again. (Also, I found this while googling up that paper. Just one reason not everyone goes multicellular )

The nature seldom makes any clear-cut thing. The trend you described is what a trend should look like. However, evolution process should not make any preferred statistics through a long time.
Why?

If evolution can randomly add or remove complexity with equal chance, and it starts from low complexity, I'm pretty sure you still get an overall trend of increasing complexity in the long term simply because of your starting point. Wait, I'll try to simulate this...

*codes*

Here:



Explanation (R code, of course, available on request ):

My simulation took 1000 lineages whose overall complexities were represented by a whole number between 0 and 20. The lower limit is for obvious reasons - "life" can't exist under a certain level of complexity. (I introduced a ceiling mainly to make a point, read on) I gave each lineage the same starting complexity for simplicity's sake. I'm pretty sure I could have randomised the starting values and got largely the same results, though. I also didn't incorporate speciation and extinction.

For 1000 "generations", I randomly decided whether the complexity of each lineage would increase by one unit, decrease by one unit or remain the same in that generation. If the complexity of any lineage would have gone outside the limits I specified, I told the program to leave it the same for that generation.

Every generation, I recorded the mean complexity of the 1000 lineages.

Finally, I ran this program with four different starting values and plotted the results as mean complexity against time (generations).

As you can see, no matter where you start, complexity converges to a certain value (in this case, the middle of the range of possible values). So if you start with low complexity, it will increase, and if you start with high complexity, it will decrease. The direction of the trend depends on the starting point. That's why I put in an upper limit: to illustrate why you should expect an increase in real evolution. It's simply because real evolution started simple! I'm not sure if there is an actual upper limit to the complexity of living things, though I imagine there must be one somewhere.

All of this involves no selection whatsoever. (Other than my minimum and maximum values)

So yes, juvenissun, evolution most definitely should produce trends.

*Assuming I didn't mess up my code, of course

You have a major contradiction right there.
Not unless you give me more than a mere declaration of "should not".

Fine, evolution is not proven. I am with you on that.
Hope your comrades will agree with you.
They do. They are also aware of the difference between "not proven" and "false".

And also, most i picked up from science class, wasn't worth knowing about, so i decided to forget about it... Hence my ignorance!1
Someone really mucked up your science education, I must say.

YOU !! are an animal. I am a human.

*rolleyes*

Which defining property of animals do you think you lack?

And what's so shameful about being an animal, anyway?
 
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Split Rock

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I take it Jesus is an animal then?

According to The Documentation, Jesus was born a Man... was he not? Then yes, he was an animal. Surely if being born an animal is good enough for Jesus, it is good enough for you?
 
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Naraoia

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So what kind of animal are you? A brood of viper, A dog, A wolf??? thats the furthest i will go!
Do you want a long list of jargon, or does "ape" satisfy you?

Parahaps i wasn't clear, i choose to forget about it!!
You were perfectly clear, it was me that wasn't. I tend to think that if someone thinks none of the science they learned is worth knowing, it's the teachers' fault.

But, of course, I'm biased. I find the universe absolutely fascinating. It's sometimes hard for me to imagine that others don't.

The solution to that problem is that people share ancestors. Me and my brother share all of our ancestors, me and my cousins share all ancestors on the lines going back from our common grandparents. Because people are all related, we have to count fewer than 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great-grandparents etc. per person.
 
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Lillen

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I know that! I don't mean to sound dumb or anything, but shouldn't you be able to walk all the way up from one single indvidual, to fill the equation I mean??? its a e^x equation if i am not mistaken!
 
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Your probably right! I know really nothing about those subjects, but I do know God, and more importantly He knows me, and if He said thats how it happened, then believe me thats how it happened, I actually don't need any evidence I know the one who created it, and if you knew Him you would understand this baffeling situation of why believers believe the creation story
 
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Split Rock

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But God didn't say how anything happened. The books of the bible were written, transcribed, translated, and finally interpreted by MEN. Not God. If you are misinterpreting scripture (like taking GEN 1-2 as an historical account) then is it still the way God says it happened? Or is just the way you say it happened? Can you be wrong?
 
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Nostromo

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I actually don't need any evidence I know the one who created it, and if you knew Him you would understand this baffeling situation of why believers believe the creation story
Indeed, if you can believe something when you have no reason to, then surely you can believe anything. Isn't there a word for that?
 
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Lillen

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I have all the reason in the world to believe in God.. He forgave me all my sins!

I could sing esoreras and erosos the same way as the original, and i have nurses backing that up... And here i am saved, by grace, and i enjoy my treasure i have in God not only being able to speak in toungs God wants me to speak in, but also the worldy gifts he want to give me to become a respected man... I want you to know that when time is at hand, you are allowed to believe the gospel!
 
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AV1611VET

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The fact that we have the same digestive, respiratory, circulatory, immunological, reproductive systems as all other animals is all a big coincedence... or the mark of a "common designer."
According to The Documentation, Jesus was born a Man... was he not? Then yes, he was an animal. Surely if being born an animal is good enough for Jesus, it is good enough for you?
Are angels animals?
 
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AV1611VET

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