If you use Matthew 7 to disprove faith alone, you shoot yourself in the foot

[BibleBeliever1611]

Many people often use this passage from Matthew 7 trying to disprove "faith alone" salvation,

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matthew 21:23

Do you seriously think this is teaching works-based salvation? In my opinion it is one of the best and clearest passages in the entire Bible to prove that salvation is indeed faith alone. Think for a second, why exactly are those people in the passage not going to heaven? Because they were boasting with their works. Asking things like, have we not done many wonderful works. If you think you are going to heaven by your works, in reality God looks down from heaven and sees you as a worker of iniquity.

It's one of the best go-to passages if you want to prove that salvation is by faith-alone, and yet some people are so blinded that they use it in attempts to prove the opposite.

 

[Soyeong]

Many people often use this passage from Matthew 7 trying to disprove "faith alone" salvation,

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matthew 21:23

Do you seriously think this is teaching works-based salvation? In my opinion it is one of the best and clearest passages in the entire Bible to prove that salvation is indeed faith alone. Think for a second, why exactly are those people in the passage not going to heaven? Because they were boasting with their works. Asking things like, have we not done many wonderful works. If you think you are going to heaven by your works, in reality God looks down from heaven and sees you as a worker of iniquity.

It's one of the best go-to passages if you want to prove that salvation is by faith-alone, and yet some people are so blinded that they use it in attempts to prove the opposite.

Jesus saying only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of God in parallel with saying that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them indicates that obedience to God's law is required to know him and to enter eternal life. Likewise, in Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments, and in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus. However, this is not speaking about a works based salvation and is not contrary to to Luther's doctrine of faith alone. A works based salvation is one where works are done for the purpose of earning our salvation and the doctrine of faith alone denies a works based salvation, however works can be done for reason other than trying to earn our salvation, such as out of faith or in order to know Jesus.

 

[timothyu]

'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?'

A lot of church institutions are going to be disappointed

 

[Blade]

Many people often use this passage from Matthew 7 trying to disprove "faith alone" salvation,

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matthew 21:23

Do you seriously think this is teaching works-based salvation? In my opinion it is one of the best and clearest passages in the entire Bible to prove that salvation is indeed faith alone. Think for a second, why exactly are those people in the passage not going to heaven? Because they were boasting with their works. Asking things like, have we not done many wonderful works. If you think you are going to heaven by your works, in reality God looks down from heaven and sees you as a worker of iniquity.

It's one of the best go-to passages if you want to prove that salvation is by faith-alone, and yet some people are so blinded that they use it in attempts to prove the opposite.

For me that verse.. seems Christ returns and gathers the nations that just came out of the great tribulation. He then splits them sheep and goats. So to the goats He says "I never new you". He can not lie. They were never saved. Yes they used that name above ever name. That name...well what did Peter and John say after the man was healed? They said "And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all." has nothing to do with salvation.

Again this is after the great tribulation. Some just like to use this verse and go after some groups today that are of God.

 

[timothyu]

If one puts the will of God before their own as commanded, then they cannot help but care for others as they would hope others would care for them in times of need. (and that includes their enemies)

 

[Halbhh]

Many people often use this passage from Matthew 7 trying to disprove "faith alone" salvation,

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matthew 21:23

Do you seriously think this is teaching works-based salvation? In my opinion it is one of the best and clearest passages in the entire Bible to prove that salvation is indeed faith alone. Think for a second, why exactly are those people in the passage not going to heaven? Because they were boasting with their works. Asking things like, have we not done many wonderful works. If you think you are going to heaven by your works, in reality God looks down from heaven and sees you as a worker of iniquity.

It's one of the best go-to passages if you want to prove that salvation is by faith-alone, and yet some people are so blinded that they use it in attempts to prove the opposite.

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

When someone tries to get you to agree to Grace without fruits/works, or the opposite: Fruits/works without grace, then don't listen to that man, but listen to God instead.

We know because our Teacher said:
Matthew 4:4 But Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"

So, we understand we need all the words, not only some verses.

In other words, instead of only Ephesians 2 verses 8 and 9 and stop.

Instead, we listen, and hear the full completing verse(s) that together make the full message (and often it's not even in one chapter, but here it is). So we listen to all the verses:

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

So, there is no contradiction, but instead there is fullness:

Bible Gateway passage: John 15 - New International Version

 

[Minister Monardo]

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matthew 21:23

Do you seriously think this is teaching works-based salvation? In my opinion it is one of the best and clearest passages in the entire Bible to prove that salvation is indeed faith alone. Think for a second, why exactly are those people in the passage not going to heaven? Because they were boasting with their works. Asking things like, have we not done many wonderful works.

Boasting of doing "many wonderful works" clearly does not cut it.
And yet, He says "Those who have done the will of My Father in
heaven". So does this prove no work, or wrong work?
If He says "I never knew you, then what is it then to know Him?
Jeremiah 22:16 He judged the cause of the poor and needy;
then it was well with him: was not this to know me?
saith the Lord.
Galatians 2:
9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
10 They desired only that we should remember the poor,
the very thing which I also was eager to do.
Isaiah 58:
6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou see the naked,
that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy reward.
Matthew 25:
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from
the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

Strangers and Sojourners

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

obedience to God's law is required to know him and to enter eternal life

Good luck.

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." - James 2:10

 

[HTacianas]

Many people often use this passage from Matthew 7 trying to disprove "faith alone" salvation,

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matthew 21:23

Do you seriously think this is teaching works-based salvation? In my opinion it is one of the best and clearest passages in the entire Bible to prove that salvation is indeed faith alone. Think for a second, why exactly are those people in the passage not going to heaven? Because they were boasting with their works. Asking things like, have we not done many wonderful works. If you think you are going to heaven by your works, in reality God looks down from heaven and sees you as a worker of iniquity.

It's one of the best go-to passages if you want to prove that salvation is by faith-alone, and yet some people are so blinded that they use it in attempts to prove the opposite.

I generally look to James:

Jas 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

There is nothing anywhere in the new testament that contradicts that.

 

[timothyu]

I generally look to James:

Jas 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Yes that eliminates hypocrisy by making deeds match mouth.

 

[Guojing]

I generally look to James:

Jas 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

There is nothing anywhere in the new testament that contradicts that.

Not even Romans 4:5?

 

[HTacianas]

Not even Romans 4:5?

No, not even Romans 4 or anything else. The "works" of Romans 4 refers to the "works of the law". That is all those things required of Jews by the old covenant that the Church has never held to.

 

[Guojing]

No, not even Romans 4 or anything else. The "works" of Romans 4 refers to the "works of the law". That is all those things required of Jews by the old covenant that the Church has never held to.

But Abraham was never under the Law of Moses correct?

 

[HTacianas]

But Abraham was never under the Law of Moses correct?

And Abraham had never really done anything to cause God to choose him. The choice was made "not of works", just like Ephesians 2. In Ephesians 2 the writer explains that they had been chosen by God on the basis of His sovereign grace. It was not a reward for anything they had done before. It was "not of works, that no man can boast".

 

[Guojing]

And Abraham had never really done anything to cause God to choose him. The choice was made "not of works", just like Ephesians 2. In Ephesians 2 the writer explains that they had been chosen by God on the basis of His sovereign grace. It was not a reward for anything they had done before. It was "not of works, that no man can boast".

So if you agree that Abraham was living before the Law of Moses, how did you end up concluding that Romans 4:5, the work is referring to "works of the law"?

What other kind of works are there?

 

[HTacianas]

So if you agree that Abraham was living before the Law of Moses, how did you end up concluding that Romans 4:5, the work is referring to "works of the law"?

What other kind of works are there?

I conclude that based on the plain reading of Romans 4:13-14, continuing with Romans 9:30-32.

And there are other works, not including the "works of the law". And they are those works mentioned by Jesus when he said:

Mat 16:27 “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works."

Which leads back to James:

Jas 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

 

[Guojing]

I conclude that based on the plain reading of Romans 4:13-14, continuing with Romans 9:30-32.

And there are other works, not including the "works of the law". And they are those works mentioned by Jesus when he said:

Mat 16:27 “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works."

Which leads back to James:

Jas 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

So in order for Romans 4:5 not to contradict James 2:14, you have to believe Paul was only referring to works of the law, and not those other works.

Is that what you are saying?

 

[HTacianas]

So in order for Romans 4:5 not to contradict James 2:14, you have to believe Paul was only referring to works of the law, and not those other works.

Is that what you are saying?

No, it is not in order for the two not to contradict. The two do not contradict on their own. But the "works of the law" are mentioned repeatedly in the letters of Paul. See Romans 9:32, Galatians 2:16, 3:2, etc. It is those "works of the law" that distinguishes Christianity from Judaism. Where Jews offer food and drink offerings to atone for minor offenses Christians have their minor offenses atoned for by faith. As John said:

1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

 

[Guojing]

No, it is not in order for the two not to contradict. The two do not contradict on their own. But the "works of the law" are mentioned repeatedly in the letters of Paul. See Romans 9:32, Galatians 2:16, 3:2, etc. It is those "works of the law" that distinguishes Christianity from Judaism. Where Jews offer food and drink offerings to atone for minor offenses Christians have their minor offenses atoned for by faith. As John said:

1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

My point to you was, if you don’t make any distinction between works of the law and other works, i.e works are works, no matter where it appears in scripture, then you have to conclude that Romans 4:5 contradicts James 2:14.

Would you agree?

 

[HTacianas]

My point to you was, if you don’t make any distinction between works of the law and other works, i.e works are works, no matter where it appears in scripture, then you have to conclude that Romans 4:5 contradicts James 2:14.

Would you agree?

No, I do not agree. And I do not agree because I know what it means. They are using the term "works" to describe several different categories of actions. One case is Ephesians 2 where the writer uses the term to mean previous works. The writer goes into detail on all of the things the Ephesians were wrapped up in but God offered them salvation despite themselves contingent on their repentance. Jesus offers to repay us based on our works, meaning good works of mercy and charity. Those are the works James states as necessary for salvation. The other "works" are the "works of the law" -such as circumcision- that have never been part of Christianity.