If you say "I believe in light" can I say "ah, the action of protons" and ignore you?

[Gottservant]

Hi there,

Look there seems to be something desperately wrong with this idea, that you can take someone's belief, whatever it may be, give a causal explanation, even a very poor one and then just dismiss anything else that person has to say, out of hand. I mean, saying there is an explanation is one thing, but dismissing every other belief someone has because you can summarize a part of it, doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Like if I say "Giving people water will solve a lot of the world's problems" you can't just then say "ah, water, doesn't fix every problem" and expect that to be an end of the conversation, surely? Or complain and say "often has fluoride, not good" and think that no more needs to be said, right? I mean what is it that holds a conversation together, is it not belief in each other and what you stand for? How does a difference of opinion suddenly wreck that? Doesn't that seem a little unfair to you?

It seems to me that people have forgotten that Jesus needs us, that He is dependent on us for His representation. There is a very real sense in the idea that if we just start walking away from each other, as I have been describing, we will destroy His Soul, the heartbeat of His Message, to be One. You don't think that is going to irk God, you think the fact that God has no more wrath for those that believe in Him means that those that undercut His Work will get a free pass, anyway? I don't think it works like that. I don't think God singles people out anymore, I think we have the benefit of the doubt, but there are blessings, favour, that we may never get, or have hope of getting if we don't work together on this.

With me?

EDIT: I mean I would say Philosophy has to step up to the plate here, wouldn't you?

 

[Gottservant]

True greatness, is not a function of completion (selah)

 

[Feldon]

Just because something can be dismissed, doesn't mean it's not true.

Truth is independent of what we believe (despite what Alchemists & JL Seagulls say!).

 

[Vergil10]

Hi there,

Look there seems to be something desperately wrong with this idea, that you can take someone's belief, whatever it may be, give a causal explanation, even a very poor one and then just dismiss anything else that person has to say, out of hand. I mean, saying there is an explanation is one thing, but dismissing every other belief someone has because you can summarize a part of it, doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Like if I say "Giving people water will solve a lot of the world's problems" you can't just then say "ah, water, doesn't fix every problem" and expect that to be an end of the conversation, surely? Or complain and say "often has fluoride, not good" and think that no more needs to be said, right? I mean what is it that holds a conversation together, is it not belief in each other and what you stand for? How does a difference of opinion suddenly wreck that? Doesn't that seem a little unfair to you?

It seems to me that people have forgotten that Jesus needs us, that He is dependent on us for His representation. There is a very real sense in the idea that if we just start walking away from each other, as I have been describing, we will destroy His Soul, the heartbeat of His Message, to be One. You don't think that is going to irk God, you think the fact that God has no more wrath for those that believe in Him means that those that undercut His Work will get a free pass, anyway? I don't think it works like that. I don't think God singles people out anymore, I think we have the benefit of the doubt, but there are blessings, favour, that we may never get, or have hope of getting if we don't work together on this.

With me?

EDIT: I mean I would say Philosophy has to step up to the plate here, wouldn't you?

once more I am sorry sir, but (I mean this with no disrespect) what you just said comes across...as...well...gibberish. I hope I am not the only one who cant make heads or tails of this.

 

[DennisTate]

Hi there,

Look there seems to be something desperately wrong with this idea, that you can take someone's belief, whatever it may be, give a causal explanation, even a very poor one and then just dismiss anything else that person has to say, out of hand. I mean, saying there is an explanation is one thing, but dismissing every other belief someone has because you can summarize a part of it, doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Like if I say "Giving people water will solve a lot of the world's problems" you can't just then say "ah, water, doesn't fix every problem" and expect that to be an end of the conversation, surely? Or complain and say "often has fluoride, not good" and think that no more needs to be said, right? I mean what is it that holds a conversation together, is it not belief in each other and what you stand for? How does a difference of opinion suddenly wreck that? Doesn't that seem a little unfair to you?

It seems to me that people have forgotten that Jesus needs us, that He is dependent on us for His representation. There is a very real sense in the idea that if we just start walking away from each other, as I have been describing, we will destroy His Soul, the heartbeat of His Message, to be One. You don't think that is going to irk God, you think the fact that God has no more wrath for those that believe in Him means that those that undercut His Work will get a free pass, anyway? I don't think it works like that. I don't think God singles people out anymore, I think we have the benefit of the doubt, but there are blessings, favour, that we may never get, or have hope of getting if we don't work together on this.

With me?

EDIT: I mean I would say Philosophy has to step up to the plate here, wouldn't you?

Yes….. we Christians tend to disobey this admonition:

"Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison.

This basic idea should include how we discuss various topics related to philosophy.

 

[Gottservant]

interesting

I will think about that some more

 

[DennisTate]

interesting

I will think about that some more

In a way……. an extreme example of this principle was shown to near death experiencer Dr. George Ritchie back in 1943:


near-death.com/ritchie.html

b. His Guided Tour of the Earthbound Realm with Jesus

Then Jesus begins to take Ritchie on a journey through various realms of the afterlife. They fly toward a large city on Earth where they notice a group of assembly-line workers at work. They witnesses the spirit of a woman trying desperately to grab a cigarette from the workers who were oblivious to her presence. This woman had died severely addicted to cigarettes and was now cut off from the one thing she desperately desired most.

Ritchie realizes how the spirits in these realms immediately know the thoughts of other spirits around them. This is the reason they tend to group together with other spirits. It is too threatening to be around others who knew and disagreed with their thoughts.

……….

d. His Description of the Horrors of Hell

They were still somewhere on the surface of the Earth; but no living person or beings of light could be seen. Before them was a plain jammed with hordes of spirits who are the most miserable and angriest beings he has ever seen. Many were engaged in hand-to-hand combat with no weapons - trying in vain to hurt and kill those who didn't agree with them. A lot of verbal abuse could be heard between them as their thoughts could be heard by everyone around them the moment they are thought. Ritchie is horrified as he wonders what living in such a realm would be like - a place where you cannot hide from who you really are. These spirits were locked into destructive thought-patterns, rage and uncontrollable lust. Some were trying in vain to get sexual gratification from each other. The wailing coming from the hordes of unsatisfied spirits was tremendous. Other spirits were in despair saying things such as, "I always knew!" and "Didn't I warn you!" Ritchie realizes this place is truly hell. Their obsessive thoughts and emotions extended beyond the physical realm and into the spiritual realm where they cannot be satisfied. Yet there was nothing preventing any of the poor spirits in these realms from leaving. There was no condemnation coming from Jesus either - only compassion for these miserable spirits. Ritchie realizes Jesus hadn't abandoned any of them here. Instead they fled from the light to escape from having the darkness of their heart from being revealed.
Return to Top
e. His Observations of the Temple of Wisdom

They then travel to a completely different realm where some kind of enormous university is located. Spirits dressed as monks busily and happily engaged in some form of artistic behavior or research. An enormous library exists here where all the important books of the universe are assembled. Ritchie asks Jesus if this is heaven. These are the spirits of people who grew beyond selfish desires while on Earth; but, like the spirits in hell, these spirits cannot see Jesus either.