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If you quote Paul....

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RGL1

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...you've got to quote it all! Paul did.


New Testament Use of the Old Testament

by Roger Nicole

THE NEW Testament contains an extraordinarily large number of Old Testament quotations. It is difficult to give an accurate figure since the variation in use ranges all the way from a distant allusion to a definite quotation introduced by an explicit formula stating the citation’s source. As a result, the figures given by various authors often reflect a startling discrepancy.
1. RANGE OF OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCES

The present writer has counted 224 direct citations introduced by a definite formula indicating the writer purposed to quote. To these must be added seven cases where a second quotation is introduced by the conjunction “and,” and 19 cases where a paraphrase or summary rather than a direct quotation follows the introductory formula. We may further note at least 45 instances where the similarity with certain Old Testament passages is so pronounced that, although no explicit indication is given that the New Testament author was referring to Old Testament Scripture, his intention to do so can scarcely be doubted. Thus a very conservative count discloses unquestionably at least 295 separate references to the Old Testament. These occupy some 352 verses of the New Testament, or more than 4.4 per cent. Therefore one verse in 22.5 of the New Testament is a quotation.
If clear allusions are taken into consideration, the figures are much higher: C. H. Toy lists 613 such instances, Wilhelm Dittmar goes as high as 1640, while Eugen Huehn indicates 4105 passages reminiscent of Old Testament Scripture. It can therefore be asserted, without exaggeration, that more than 10 per cent of the New Testament text is made up of citations or direct allusions to the Old Testament. The recorded words of Jesus disclose a similar percentage. Certain books like Revelation, Hebrews, Romans are well nigh saturated with Old Testament forms of language, allusions and quotations. Perusal of Nestle’s edition of the Greek New Testament, in which the Old Testament material is printed in bold face type, will reveal at a glance the extent of this practice. These facts appear even more impressive when one remembers that in New Testament times the Old Testament was not as today duplicated by the million but could be obtained only in expensive handwritten copies.


http://www.bible-researcher.com/nicole.html


Some believe that as christians today we are to use only what Paul taught and that is what we apply to our life. Yet Paul quoted the OT extensivly. So according to that view are we in the NT church to apply the OT scriptures Paul taught as well? Or should we rip out all the OT quotes and teaching from Pauls teaching? Or do we look at the OT quote and context and the NT quote and context together and learn from it, and apply it?

Your thoughts?
 

eph3Nine

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Paul is my apostle. Why wouldnt I quote him?

Paul has the words of the Risen Christ written specifically TO me and ABOUT me. Why wouldnt I quote him?

We will all be judged by the gospel given to Paul. Why wouldnt I quote him?

The words given to Paul were the commandments of God to we the Body of Christ. Why wouldnt I quote him?

If you dont know who YOUR apostle IS , then you will be following the wrong instructions.
 
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biblebeliever123

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1 Corinthians 4:14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.

1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

1 Corinthians 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Philippians 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

Philippians 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

Philippians 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
 
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RGL1

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eph3Nine said:
Paul is my apostle. Why wouldnt I quote him?

Paul has the words of the Risen Christ written specifically TO me and ABOUT me. Why wouldnt I quote him?

We will all be judged by the gospel given to Paul. Why wouldnt I quote him?

The words given to Paul were the commandments of God to we the Body of Christ. Why wouldnt I quote him?

If you dont know who YOUR apostle IS , then you will be following the wrong instructions.
Just don't forget the OT parts he quoted. You know, the parts written to Israel.
 
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eph3Nine

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biblebeliever123 said:
1 Corinthians 4:14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.

1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

1 Corinthians 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Philippians 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

Philippians 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

Philippians 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Amen BB...if we are not following Paul as he followed Christ (the RISEN and glorified Christ)....then we are following the WRONG gospel. It is scripture that tells us who the enemies of the Cross ARE...its those who walk contrary to the LAST revelation given to mankind BY GOD HIMSELF.

NO wonder Paul warns us!:(
 
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RGL1

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eph3Nine said:
Amen BB...if we are not following Paul as he followed Christ (the RISEN and glorified Christ)....then we are following the WRONG gospel. It is scripture that tells us who the enemies of the Cross ARE...its those who walk contrary to the LAST revelation given to mankind BY GOD HIMSELF.

NO wonder Paul warns us!:(
Yes he does warn us to beware of heretics.
 
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jmacvols

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RGL1 said:
...you've got to quote it all! Paul did.


I agree!! For example, too many quote Rom 4:5 and do not quote it in its context. They remove it from its context and declare in this verse that Paul excluded ALL works from being saved. But if it is left in its context, and one quotes all the context, one can see the work Paul excluded here was the OT work of circumcision, that Paul actually did NOT exclude all works. Now if Paul did exclude all works in Rom 4:5, that "no works" can save, how is that reconciled to Christ everlastingly punishing those that have "no works" in Matt 25? It becomes evident that 'all works' are not the same, that there are actually different kinds of works, and that Paul did not exclude 'all works' in Rom 4:5, he was excluding the work of circumcision from justifying, not works of obedience.
 
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jmacvols

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eph3Nine said:
Amen BB...if we are not following Paul as he followed Christ (the RISEN and glorified Christ)....then we are following the WRONG gospel. It is scripture that tells us who the enemies of the Cross ARE...its those who walk contrary to the LAST revelation given to mankind BY GOD HIMSELF.

NO wonder Paul warns us!:(

If we are to be followers of Paul, that means we must also be baptized like Paul, Acts 22:16.
 
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foundinHim

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We are also to take heed of those who seek to "bite and devour one another" and also don't forget to beware the "false brethren"!!!

For any who would call a brother or sister in Christ a "heretick"...all I got to say to that is ..."sticks and stones may break my bones, but YOUR words can never hurt me"!!! LOL

I seek God's approval ONLY, not man's!!!
 
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heymikey80

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eph3Nine said:
Paul is my apostle. Why wouldnt I quote him?

Paul has the words of the Risen Christ written specifically TO me and ABOUT me. Why wouldnt I quote him?

We will all be judged by the gospel given to Paul. Why wouldnt I quote him?

The words given to Paul were the commandments of God to we the Body of Christ. Why wouldnt I quote him?

If you dont know who YOUR apostle IS , then you will be following the wrong instructions.
Hm.

Let's say Paul approached the authorities he quoted with the same reasons you're citing for quoting Paul.

Then what is Paul's reason for quoting the Old Testament Scriptures?
 
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RGL1

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jmacvols said:
I agree!! For example, too many quote Rom 4:5 and do not quote it in its context. They remove it from its context and declare in this verse that Paul excluded ALL works from being saved. But if it is left in its context, and one quotes all the context, one can see the work Paul excluded here was the OT work of circumcision, that Paul actually did NOT exclude all works. Now if Paul did exclude all works in Rom 4:5, that "no works" can save, how is that reconciled to Christ everlastingly punishing those that have "no works" in Matt 25? It becomes evident that 'all works' are not the same, that there are actually different kinds of works, and "that Paul did not exclude 'all works' in Rom 4:5, he was excluding the work of circumcision from justifying, not works of obedience.

"...he was excluding the work of circumcision from justifying, not works of obedience."

Let's remember obedience can't justify. Obedience is the result of a changed heart towards God, by God.
It is not the cause of justification (to declare righteous) or salvation (deliverence from sin, self, & wrath) it's result of justification and salvation. If it's the other way around then that would mean works justify and save. We know they don't.
 
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RGL1

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foundinHim said:
We are also to take heed of those who seek to "bite and devour one another" and also don't forget to beware the "false brethren"!!!

For any who would call a brother or sister in Christ a "heretick"...all I got to say to that is ..."sticks and stones may break my bones, but YOUR words can never hurt me"!!! LOL

I seek God's approval ONLY, not man's!!!

foundinHim,

What is a heretic?
 
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foundinHim

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RGL1:

the dictionary definition of "heretic" is one who professes a heresy; a church member who holds beliefs opposed to church dogma.

(Titus 3:10) A man that is an heretick, after the first and second admonition reject;

Let's compare this verse with Acts 5:17-18 "Then the high priest rose up, and all they that were with him, (which is the sect of the Sadducces,) and were filled with indignation, and laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison."

"heretick" = one who is able to choose or select; then, one who acts from one's group spirit, a factious person.

"heresy" = a taking, especially of a town; then, a taking as of choice, option; a preference, a chosen way or plan; later a philosophic principle, or set of principles, a sect or school.

So, who are you calling a Sadduccee?
 
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RGL1

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foundinHim said:
RGL1:

the dictionary definition of "heretic" is one who professes a heresy; a church member who holds beliefs opposed to church dogma.

(Titus 3:10) A man that is an heretick, after the first and second admonition reject;

Let's compare this verse with Acts 5:17-18 "Then the high priest rose up, and all they that were with him, (which is the sect of the Sadducces,) and were filled with indignation, and laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison."

"heretick" = one who is able to choose or select; then, one who acts from one's group spirit, a factious person.

"heresy" = a taking, especially of a town; then, a taking as of choice, option; a preference, a chosen way or plan; later a philosophic principle, or set of principles, a sect or school.

So, who are you calling a Sadduccee?
"the dictionary definition of "heretic" is one who professes a heresy; a church member who holds beliefs opposed to church dogma."

Bingo!
 
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RGL1

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foundinHim said:
We are also to take heed of those who seek to "bite and devour one another" and also don't forget to beware the "false brethren"!!!

For any who would call a brother or sister in Christ a "heretick"...all I got to say to that is ..."sticks and stones may break my bones, but YOUR words can never hurt me"!!! LOL

I seek God's approval ONLY, not man's!!!
..."sticks and stones may break my bones, but YOUR words can never hurt me"!!"

3rd grade?
 
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Dispy

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RGL1 said:
Some believe that as christians today we are to use only what Paul taught and that is what we apply to our life. Yet Paul quoted the OT extensivly. So according to that view are we in the NT church to apply the OT scriptures Paul taught as well? Or should we rip out all the OT quotes and teaching from Pauls teaching? Or do we look at the OT quote and context and the NT quote and context together and learn from it, and apply it?

Your thoughts?

When Paul was first converted he did not have the knowledge of the mystery that was eventually revealed to him. Also, it was not revealed to him all at one time, but progressively. Even in his letter to the Corinthians (1Cor,12:1) he says "...I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord."

Because of his love for his fellow countrymen, his early ministry was to the Jews. He went about to prove to them that Jesus was the Christ, and he used the OT Scriptures to prove just who Jesus was. Therefore, we find Paul referring to the OT Scriptures more then any NT writer.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
 
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RGL1

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Dispy said:
When Paul was first converted he did not have the knowledge of the mystery that was eventually revealed to him. Also, it was not revealed to him all at one time, but progressively. Even in his letter to the Corinthians (1Cor,12:1) he says "...I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord."

Because of his love for his fellow countrymen, his early ministry was to the Jews. He went about to prove to them that Jesus was the Christ, and he used the OT Scriptures to prove just who Jesus was. Therefore, we find Paul referring to the OT Scriptures more then any NT writer.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

"Because of his love for his fellow countrymen, his early ministry was to the Jews."

Paul preached to all and that was his mission.

1 Corinthians 9:19-23 19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. 23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of itSince Paul is the only treacher for some we are to follow his example.

1 Corinthians 11:1-16 1 Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.
 
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jmacvols

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RGL1 said:
"...he was excluding the work of circumcision from justifying, not works of obedience."

Let's remember obedience can't justify. Obedience is the result of a changed heart towards God, by God.
It is not the cause of justification (to declare righteous) or salvation (deliverence from sin, self, & wrath) it's result of justification and salvation. If it's the other way around then that would mean works justify and save. We know they don't.

We'll just have to disagree on this point. Obedience does justify. James 2:21, Abraham was justified by his work when he offered Isaac. By works a man is justified, not by faith alone. So having a faith void of works, i.e., doing nothing, does not justify.
 
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heymikey80

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jmacvols said:
We'll just have to disagree on this point. Obedience does justify. James 2:21, Abraham was justified by his work when he offered Isaac. By works a man is justified, not by faith alone. So having a faith void of works, i.e., doing nothing, does not justify.
What would Jesus have said to the thief on the cross in this case?

To me James' whole passage is talking about someone showing that he's justified. Works definitely enter in as evidence -- as show. So we observe (Jas 2:22) a person is justified, by his works. God declares as just those with a living faith; those with a living faith also walk in good works.
 
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