If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

bugkiller · Aug 5, 2016

1John2:4 said:
Brother, let us reason together, if someone is anti the law they are lawless. That is what anti-law means, this is pretty basic stuff, I am not sure why so many people are confused by this, maybe it has to do with a strong delusion.

Not when it comes to Christianity.

bugkiller

bugkiller · Aug 5, 2016

BukiRob said:
The problem with your suggestion is that it directly conflicts with Prophecies in the OT about the covenant (Torah) being written on the heart and in the mind.

You rightly cite that the heart of Torah is loving G-d with your all and loving your neighbor as yourself. All of the prophets and Torah are founded on those 2. The entireity of the Torah is showing HOW to do those 2 things.

The idea that somehow there is a new or different law that is far more "liberal" is now in place is found NO WHERE in scripture.

Further more you are also ignoring G-d word where he expressly stays that he DOES NOTHING without first revealing it to his PROPHETS(plural) Even if I make allowance for you that Paul was a prophet his testimony is invalid as he has no witness to verify his testimony.

Your argument is so foundational in nature (the setting aside of Torah) that to suggest that Messiah would not have discussed this with his apostles in itself is absurd. Indeed what we see when Messiah DOES speak about the Torah is the antithesis of your position. He plainly stated "DO NOT THINK THAT I HAVE COME TO ABOLISH THE TORAH (LAW) or PROPHETS FOR I DID NOT COME TO ABOLISH THEM." Yeshua came teaching OBEDIENCE..... No where will you find the master teaching anything contrary to the keeping of the torah. NO WHERE.

You refuse to believe even the Gospels.

bugkiller

yeshuaslavejeff · Aug 5, 2016

1John2:4 said:
Brother, let us reason together, if someone is anti the law they are lawless. That is what anti-law means, this is pretty basic stuff, I am not sure why so many people are confused by this, maybe it has to do with a strong delusion.

"Reason" doesn't work.
Worldwide "Christendom" is dumb when it comes to Truth, Scripture, and Listening to Yhwh.
It is easier to listen to men say "peace, peace" when there is no peace; nothing right with Jesus nor with Yhwh nor with Yhwh's Word.
"Easier" and it costs less - a lot less; think about this- people no longer have to repent !
They no longer have to worry about Yhwh's Perfect Judgment on Judgment Day (they're told).
They can do what they want, live it up, and not ever do what is right (yes-not ever).

BobRyan · Aug 5, 2016

Aldebaran said:
In the passage you quoted, it sounds like what Jesus is referring to is the additions the Pharisees did to the law, rather than the law of Moses itself.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

But what does Christ accuse them of doing?

1. Using their own traditions to nullify one of the Ten Commandments.
2. He calls the Ten Commandments "Moses says" -- and "the Word of God" and "the Commandment of God"
3. He argues that even though they do not claim to be setting aside one of the Commandments of God - they in fact are by observing the example he gives in the case of the 5th Commandment.
4. He argues that this is just one example of the many things they do with their traditions - in this way - nullifying the Word of God. Contradicting the Commandment of God - one of the TEN.
5. He states that it nullifies their worship.
6. Jesus is not defending their additions -- he is defending God's Commandments

====================================

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

BobRyan · Aug 5, 2016

1John2:4 said:
Brother, let us reason together, if someone is anti the law they are lawless. That is what anti-law means, this is pretty basic stuff, I am not sure why so many people are confused by this, maybe it has to do with a strong delusion.

Agreed.
Paul points that out in Romans 8:4-9.

yeshuaslavejeff · Aug 5, 2016

QUOTE "BobRyan, post: 69963213, member: 235244"]Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

But what does Christ accuse them of doing?

1. Using their own traditions to nullify one of the Ten Commandments.
2. He calls the Ten Commandments "Moses says" -- and "the Word of God" and "the Commandment of God"
3. He argues that even though they do not claim to be setting aside one of the Commandments of God - they in fact are by observing the example he gives in the case of the 5th Commandment.
4. He argues that this is just one example of the many things they do with their traditions - in this way - nullifying the Word of God. Contradicting the Commandment of God - one of the TEN.
5. He states that it nullifies their worship.
6. Jesus is not defending their additions -- he is defending God's Commandments

====================================

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. QUOTE

Most all of this what Jesus said and did - seems very accurately to apply and refer to
not just the Pharisees, but many many many religious excuses in the last 2000 years,
right?

1John2:4 · Aug 5, 2016

bugkiller said:
Not when it comes to Christianity.

bugkiller

Hi buggy, you are sure on early today

1John2:4 · Aug 5, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
"Reason" doesn't work.
Worldwide "Christendom" is dumb when it comes to Truth, Scripture, and Listening to Yhwh.
It is easier to listen to men say "peace, peace" when there is no peace; nothing right with Jesus nor with Yhwh nor with Yhwh's Word.
"Easier" and it costs less - a lot less; think about this- people no longer have to repent !
They no longer have to worry about Yhwh's Perfect Judgment on Judgment Day (they're told).
They can do what they want, live it up, and not ever do what is right (yes-not ever).

One teacher I was listening to nailed it, the majority of preachers and teachers of the Word are spiritual anesthesiologist. Keeping the sheep asleep. I'm sad for our brothers and sisters, the wolves are everywhere. It seams like every message I hear from traditional Christianity has to do with what can God do for me to make my life better, 5 ways to better this and 10 tips for improving that, it has nothing to do with God and His Word.

klutedavid · Aug 5, 2016

Hello Travis.

This is what you wrote in post #1330.

It's not possible to carry out any aspect of the new moons until the temple is rebuilt, it's not something
to worry about right now.

An erroneous claim that is not supported by the scripture Travis.

We see that the first mention of the 'new moon offering' occurs in the book of Numbers below.

Numbers 29:6
...besides the burnt offering of the new moon and its grain offering...

According to the scholars Travis, the book of Numbers was written between 1500 and 1400 BC. We can be fairly certain that the book of Numbers was widely known by the Israelites, and well before the construction of the temple by Solomon.

From wikipedia, the temple was constructed by Solomon around 950 to 850 BC. Thus there is an approximate difference of 500 years between the book of Numbers and the construction of the temple.

Therefore to make the false claim, that a new moon offering required a temple insitu is an incorrect claim.

What was more alarming about what you wrote Travis, was the following statement.

until the temple is rebuilt

It seems that you have been listening to a sect within orthodox Judaism, or you hold to an erroneous Biblical eschatology.

Firstly Travis, a third temple will not and cannot be built on the temple mount, Israel is a secular nation after all and not a theocracy.

Secondly Travis, Israel is surrounded by Islamic nations and the temple mount in Jerusalem has three Islamic places of worship on site. If an Israelite attempted to move even a stone on the temple mount all hell would break loose. Forget the idea of a third temple on the temple mount, Israel has no need of an ancient stone temple.

Thirdly and most importantly, the world is slowly discarding all religious affiliations, Christianity has been in decline
for over a century. The decline of Christianity around the world is accelerating and this phenomenon is non reversible.
Even orthodox Judaisim is also in sharp decline, the idea of building a third temple is more remote now than it has
ever has been. Your dreaming if you think that orthodox Judaism will take control of Israel and build a temple for
sacrificing animals. To even imagine that animal sacrifices could ever return in this modern era is far beyond even contemplating.

You may need to examine why you believe that a third physical temple must be built on the temple mount.
I see a spiritual temple in Christ but not a stone and mortar temple.

yeshuaslavejeff · Aug 5, 2016

1John2:4 said:
what can God do for me to make my life better, 5 ways to better this and 10 tips for improving that, it has nothing to do with God and His Word.

yes,
as
it is written, often , and repeated throughout Scripture several ways besides here:
Matthew 7:13-14Expanded Bible (EXB)
The Way to Heaven Is Hard
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. [L Because] The gate is wide and the road is ·wide [broad; spacious; or easy] that leads to ·hell [L destruction; ruin], and many people enter through that gate. 14 But the gate is small and the road is ·narrow [or difficult; hard] that leads to true life. ·Only a few people [And there are few who] find that road.
---------

Matthew 7:13-14J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)

13-14 “Go in by the narrow gate. For the wide gate has a broad road which leads to disaster and there are many people going that way. The narrow gate and the hard road lead out into life and only a few are finding it.”
------------------------------

Matthew 7:13-14Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

13 “Go in through the narrow gate; for the gate that leads to destruction is wide and the road broad, and many travel it; 14 but it is a narrow gate and a hard road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
------------------------
Matthew 7:13-14Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

13 Enter through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and spacious and broad is the way that leads away to destruction, and many are those who are entering through it.

14 But the gate is narrow (contracted [a]by pressure) and the way is straitened and compressed that leads away to life, and few are those who find it.
---------------

Matthew 7:13-14The Message (MSG)
Being and Doing

13-14 “Don’t look for shortcuts to God. The market is flooded with surefire, easygoing formulas for a successful life that can be practiced in your spare time. Don’t fall for that stuff, even though crowds of people do. The way to life—to God!—is vigorous and requires total attention.

BobRyan · Aug 5, 2016

klutedavid said:
Hello Travis.

This is what you wrote in post #1330.
.

hello David.

If you click on the "Reply" button at the lower right corner of Travis' post it will encase the entire quote in your post - with an arrow link directly to Travis' post. That way you can get as much of his quote as you want and readers can click the arrow in your post to get back to Travis' initial post if they would like.

BobRyan · Aug 5, 2016

1John2:4 said:
One teacher I was listening to nailed it, the majority of preachers and teachers of the Word are spiritual anesthesiologist. Keeping the sheep asleep. I'm sad for our brothers and sisters, the wolves are everywhere. It seams like every message I hear from traditional Christianity has to do with what can God do for me to make my life better, 5 ways to better this and 10 tips for improving that, it has nothing to do with God and His Word.

Satan was what you call a "spiritual anesthesiologist" -- he too wanted to lull Eve into a trance - a sleep -- off her guard... unnable to see that his gospel of "good things will happen to you if you will violate the Command of God" message -- was a dead end.

bugkiller · Aug 5, 2016

1John2:4 said:
Hi buggy, you are sure on early today

Did I sin or something?

bugkiller

Travis93 · Aug 5, 2016

klutedavid said:
Hello Travis.

This is what you wrote in post #1330.

An erroneous claim that is not supported by the scripture Travis.

We see that the first mention of the 'new moon offering' occurs in the book of Numbers below.

Numbers 29:6
...besides the burnt offering of the new moon and its grain offering...

According to the scholars Travis, the book of Numbers was written between 1500 and 1400 BC. We can be fairly certain that the book of Numbers was widely known by the Israelites, and well before the construction of the temple by Solomon.

From wikipedia, the temple was constructed by Solomon around 950 to 850 BC. Thus there is an approximate difference of 500 years between the book of Numbers and the construction of the temple.

Therefore to make the false claim, that a new moon offering required a temple insitu is an incorrect claim.

What was more alarming about what you wrote Travis, was the following statement.

It seems that you have been listening to a sect within orthodox Judaism, or you hold to an erroneous Biblical eschatology.

Firstly Travis, a third temple will not and cannot be built on the temple mount, Israel is a secular nation after all and not a theocracy.

Secondly Travis, Israel is surrounded by Islamic nations and the temple mount in Jerusalem has three Islamic places of worship on site. If an Israelite attempted to move even a stone on the temple mount all hell would break loose. Forget the idea of a third temple on the temple mount, Israel has no need of an ancient stone temple.

Thirdly and most importantly, the world is slowly discarding all religious affiliations, Christianity has been in decline
for over a century. The decline of Christianity around the world is accelerating and this phenomenon is non reversible.
Even orthodox Judaisim is also in sharp decline, the idea of building a third temple is more remote now than it has
ever has been. Your dreaming if you think that orthodox Judaism will take control of Israel and build a temple for
sacrificing animals. To even imagine that animal sacrifices could ever return in this modern era is far beyond even contemplating.

You may need to examine why you believe that a third physical temple must be built on the temple mount.
I see a spiritual temple in Christ but not a stone and mortar temple.

Third temple will be built by Jesus himself, when he sets up his millennial kingdom. Read Ezekiel 40-Ezekiel 48, there's a third temple in prophesy that never got built. It's either a false prophesy or yet to come.
Zechariah 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord:
Zechariah 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the Lord; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
Malachi 3:3 And he (bearer of the covenant from Malachi 3:1) shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.
Malachi 3:4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the Lord, as in the days of old, and as in former years.

As far as the sacrifices, while they did do them in various places before the temple was built, it was forbidden to deviate afterward.
Deuteronomy 12:5 But unto the place which the Lord your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come:
Deuteronomy 12:6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:

I repeat, it's impossible for us to do sacrifices properly today, it won't happen till the third temple.

1John2:4 · Aug 6, 2016

bugkiller said:
Did I sin or something?

bugkiller

Haha

Aldebaran · Aug 6, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
yes,
as
it is written, often , and repeated throughout Scripture several ways besides here:
Matthew 7:13-14Expanded Bible (EXB)
The Way to Heaven Is Hard
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. [L Because] The gate is wide and the road is ·wide [broad; spacious; or easy] that leads to ·hell [L destruction; ruin], and many people enter through that gate. 14 But the gate is small and the road is ·narrow [or difficult; hard] that leads to true life. ·Only a few people [And there are few who] find that road.
---------

Matthew 7:13-14J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)

13-14 “Go in by the narrow gate. For the wide gate has a broad road which leads to disaster and there are many people going that way. The narrow gate and the hard road lead out into life and only a few are finding it.”
------------------------------

Matthew 7:13-14Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

13 “Go in through the narrow gate; for the gate that leads to destruction is wide and the road broad, and many travel it; 14 but it is a narrow gate and a hard road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
------------------------
Matthew 7:13-14Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

13 Enter through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and spacious and broad is the way that leads away to destruction, and many are those who are entering through it.

14 But the gate is narrow (contracted [a]by pressure) and the way is straitened and compressed that leads away to life, and few are those who find it.
---------------

Matthew 7:13-14The Message (MSG)
Being and Doing

13-14 “Don’t look for shortcuts to God. The market is flooded with surefire, easygoing formulas for a successful life that can be practiced in your spare time. Don’t fall for that stuff, even though crowds of people do. The way to life—to God!—is vigorous and requires total attention.

At the same time, Jesus said in Matthew 11:28-30---"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

This doesn't sound to me like the way to Heaven is hard. It was hard doing it by the way of the Law. If it remains so hard, then what was the point of Jesus fulfilling the Law for us? He also said in John 3:14-15--, "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him."

Was it hard for the people in the wilderness to simply look to the serpent up on the pole? That's all it took for them to be healed. It was a symbol of what Christ would do for us and how He would save us. Numbers 21:9 shows us this: "So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived."

Notice we don't see conditions added to this requirement. Yet people keep bringing up things in addition to believing upon Jesus Christ for salvation. I think that's what creates a lot of confusion about what it takes to be saved. So much talk about what we must do in addition to believing in Christ.

yeshuaslavejeff · Aug 6, 2016

Yhwh's Word says what He says.
Most people take the wide road to death/destruction. Then and Today.

Aldebaran · Aug 6, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Yhwh's Word says what He says.
Most people take the wide road to death/destruction. Then and Today.

In the post just before yours, I showed what He says. I was hoping someone would address it.

Travis93 · Aug 6, 2016

Jesus's yoke is easy to bear compared to the Pharisees because he only preached the law of Moses, not any of their man made additions. That is the unbearable bondage Peter was talking about in Acts 15:10, not God's own law. Otherwise he wouldn't have continued keeping the food laws by Acts 10:14, and he would have accepted the food rather than rejecting it. Think about it, years after Jesus's death he was still keeping the law and even a voice from heaven couldn't persuade him otherwise. That's because he believed in Deuteronomy 13:1-5 saying if anyone leads you away from the commandments is a false prophet.

BukiRob · Aug 7, 2016

bugkiller said:
You refuse to believe even the Gospels.

bugkiller

It is you who refuse to believe the gospel. It is you who teach a foreign god.

If it is not revealed by the prophets and it is in conflict with the prophets, torah and the writings it is NOT from G-d.

If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

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