If you cannot believe the genesis account....

Follower of Christ · Jun 2, 2004

Nathan Poe said:
We've got it quite straight... the only one here stumbling over elementary science is you.

man......I have got to see if i can dig up the thread where one of you kind folks mockingly corrected my implying that the ''theory'' of gravity was responsible for stones falling to the ground......
(it was a poor choice of ''terms''?)

Nathan Poe · Jun 2, 2004

Follower of Christ said:
man......I have got to see if i can dig up the thread where one of you kind folks mockingly corrected my implying that the ''theory'' of gravity was responsible for stones falling to the ground......
(it was a poor choice of ''terms''?)

Wouldn't make much difference if you could. We mocked you then for ignorance; we'll mock you now for having learned nothing.

Stones fall. That's a fact.

Can you tell us with ABSOLUTE PROOF exactly why they fall?

What causes gravity, FoC?

Follower of Christ · Jun 2, 2004

Nathan Poe said:
Wouldn't make much difference if you could. We mocked you then for ignorance; we'll mock you now for having learned nothing.

Stones fall. That's a fact.

Can you tell us with ABSOLUTE PROOF exactly why they fall?

What causes gravity, FoC?

I just love watching the confusion pertaining to all the terms......

one guy says its the LAW of gravity that makes things fall NOT the theory, the next clown says its NOT the LAW, but the theory........

Nathan Poe · Jun 2, 2004

Follower of Christ said:
I just love watching the confusion pertaining to all the terms......

one guy says its the LAW of gravity that makes things fall NOT the theory, the next clown says its NOT the LAW, but the theory........

IOW, you have no answer, do you?

I guess there's no gravity then, is there?

Didaskomenos · Jun 2, 2004

So instead of admitting that you're the one that's confused by the terms, you imagine that you're above the fray, deriving sagely delight from others' confusion.

Nathan, I've decided to heed Paine's maxim about medicine to the dead.

JohnR7 · Jun 2, 2004

Nathan Poe said:
I guess there's no gravity then, is there?

Would you care to guess again, or is that your final answer?

Follower of Christ · Jun 2, 2004

Didaskomenos said:
So instead of admitting that you're the one that's confused by the terms, you imagine that you're above the fray, deriving sagely delight from others' confusion.

Nathan, I've decided to heed Paine's maxim about medicine to the dead.

Funny thing was, i wasnt confused at all till I came in here

JohnR7 · Jun 2, 2004

Arikay said:
don't knock bottled hair color, my hair color comes from a bottle.

My wife gets her hair color out of a bottle. I try to get her to use more red, but maybe she is afraid they will think she comes from Korea. She use to pull the white hairs out, but she reached a point when she realized that was not going to work anymore.

I like have white in my hair. The women that cuts my hair calls it salt and pepper. Because I have black and white mixed together.

Nathan Poe · Jun 2, 2004

JohnR7 said:
Would you care to guess again, or is that your final answer?

Just trying to see this from FoC's POV.

Nathan Poe · Jun 2, 2004

Follower of Christ said:
Funny thing was, i wasnt confused at all till I came in here

"To be absolutely certain about something, one must know everything or nothing about it." --Olin Miller

Well then, let's see if we can clear up your confusion a bit.

What is the theory of gravity?

Hint: It's not that things fall down. That's a fact, not a theory.

Bonus hint: It's the explanation why things fall down.

Now, as near as I can figure from your what-I'll-loosely-refer-to-as-"logic," unless someone can answer that question with ABSOLUTE PROOF, then we have no business teaching this "gravity" nonsense as if it were a fact.

Now, FoC, how about a straight answer on this one? I dare you:

What causes gravity?

Follower of Christ · Jun 2, 2004

Nathan Poe said:
"To be absolutely certain about something, one must know everything or nothing about it." --Olin Miller

Well then, let's see if we can clear up your confusion a bit.

What is the theory of gravity?

Hint: It's not that things fall down. That's a fact, not a theory.

Bonus hint: It's the explanation why things fall down.

Now, as near as I can figure from your what-I'll-loosely-refer-to-as-"logic," unless someone can answer that question with ABSOLUTE PROOF, then we have no business teaching this "gravity" nonsense as if it were a fact.

Now, FoC, how about a straight answer on this one? I dare you:

What causes gravity?

Im not typing out a page for your enjoyment....

I will however do what you all do and give you a link

http://www.peterallport.com/gravity.htm

study up........its on the test

and maybe you can critique that site for me while youre at it

Follower of Christ · Jun 2, 2004

Oh, and for Petes sake, let me add that NO I dont understand exacly how gravity works before you ramble on about that

Nathan Poe · Jun 2, 2004

Follower of Christ said:
Oh, and for Petes sake, let me add that NO I dont understand exacly how gravity works before you ramble on about that

Well then if the scientific language (I'm refering to your fact/theory confusion here) has you puzzled when it comes to Gravity, something even you don't need ABSOLUTE PROOF for, then how is anyone going to have a discussion with you concerning the theory of evolution?

Gotta crawl before you can walk, FoC...

gluadys · Jun 2, 2004

Follower of Christ said:
When you say ''myth'' .....are you maening the virgin birth is not a factual event?
Was Jesus born of a VIRGIN or not ???

I am saying that it is a mythical truth.

I have my doubts about it being a biological fact, but I don't consider that matter to be important. And I wouldn't argue about the unprovable in any case.

What I know is that in affirming the virgin birth, the early church was affirming what it believed about the nature of Jesus of Nazareth--that he was not an ordinary person but the Messiah and the Son of God.

They were also affirming his real humanity against the Gnostics and adoptionists and Docetians who denied the possibility of genuine incarnation.

As my confirmation teacher told us when we were preparing for adult membership, when the Apostles' Creed was written, the word that was controversial was not "virgin"; it was "born".

Follower of Christ · Jun 2, 2004

Nathan Poe said:
Well then if the scientific language (I'm refering to your fact/theory confusion here) has you puzzled when it comes to Gravity, something even you don't need ABSOLUTE PROOF for, then how is anyone going to have a discussion with you concerning the theory of evolution?

Gotta crawl before you can walk, FoC...

Poe.......lets NOT change the subject.........

CAN YOU PROVE IT OR NOT

THAT is all I care about
NOTHING else.....

Follower of Christ · Jun 2, 2004

gluadys said:
I am saying that it is a mythical truth.

I have my doubts about it being a biological fact, but I don't consider that matter to be important. And I wouldn't argue about the unprovable in any case.

What I know is that in affirming the virgin birth, the early church was affirming what it believed about the nature of Jesus of Nazareth--that he was not an ordinary person but the Messiah and the Son of God.

They were also affirming his real humanity against the Gnostics and adoptionists and Docetians who denied the possibility of genuine incarnation.

As my confirmation teacher told us when we were preparing for adult membership, when the Apostles' Creed was written, the word that was controversial was not "virgin"; it was "born".

But how do you dispute the OTs Masoretic text that says virgin

So, the Lord Himself shall give you a sign. Behold, the virgin will conceive and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Immanuel.

(Isa 7:14)

H5959
‛alma^h
al-maw'
Feminine of H5958; a lass (as veiled or private): - damsel, maid, virgin.

Click to expand...

Jet Black · Jun 3, 2004

Tween said:
how can you possibly believe anything else the bible says? how can you ahve faith that the rest of the book, especially Jesus, Salvation, etc.... things which are foundational to Christianity.

if genesis is a "myth" a "lie" and isnt accurate, what makes you believe in anything else it says, when the beginning is already wrong in your view?

if the samaritan didn't really exist, or the farmer with the field and silver coins, or any of the other characters in his parables, then wasn't everything Jesus said a lie?

Follower of Christ · Jun 3, 2004

Jet Black said:
if the samaritan didn't really exist, or the farmer with the field and silver coins, or any of the other characters in his parables, then wasn't everything Jesus said a lie?

gluadys · Jun 3, 2004

Follower of Christ said:
But how do you dispute the OTs Masoretic text that says virgin

Never said I was disputing the text. You do know, however, that when Isaiah was talking to King Ahaz about the child to be born, he was talking about a birth due within months, not one to take place centuries later.

Isaiah's words were picked up by Matthew to apply to Jesus. At least as far as the written text goes. Now whether Matthew was the first to apply Isaiah's text in this way, or whether it was already part of the church's oral tradition, who can say?

What we can say is that neither Paul, Mark, John, Peter or James make mention of it. So it appears not to have been fundamentally important at first, but acquires importance toward the end of the first century CE and more so in the 2nd century when the Apostle's Creed first appears.

This coincides with the struggle for orthodoxy vs the various anti-incarnation concepts denounced as heresy. Of course, orthodoxy won that struggle, (with the help of Constantine). So it became part and parcel of Christian dogma. Had the emperor's favour gone the other way, history---and the Christian faith---would have been different.

For one thing, the gospels of Matthew and Luke would not be part of the NT, while the gospel of Thomas may have been.

Jet Black · Jun 3, 2004

Follower of Christ said:

well was it? because those stories aren't literal truth, are they a lie?

If you cannot believe the genesis account....

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