If you believe there is no hell . . .

[theseed]

1) if there is not a hell, then how do you explain God's mercy? Why does God have mercy on us? How does God have mercy? How can God hold something we deserve if it does not exist?

2) If the wages of sin is death, and there is no death or hell (Rev. 1.18), then, why doe we need Christ? Why did Christ die on a cross? Why do we have to believe in Jesus? How can we perish if there is no hell (John 3.16)? How can the lake of fire be for ever and ever if it does not exist?

 

[FadingWhispers3]

Off Topic question: what is 'hell' if 'hell' will be thrown into a lake of fire? Is hell destroyed by itself?

 

[theseed]

Off Topic question: what is 'hell' if 'hell' will be thrown into a lake of fire? Is hell destroyed by itself?

Generically, I use hell to be a place of eternal suffering.

 

[Arikereba]

I don't know. I can't do more than speculate. So I'm offering questions, suggestions, and not answers.

For what it's worth, I don't necessarily not believe in hell. There are lots of possibilities that would satisfy me, and I suspect that what I'm in for doesn't match up with any of them, but I'll understand it when I get there.

1) if there is not a hell, then how do you explain God's mercy? Why does God have mercy on us? How does God have mercy? How can God hold something we deserve if it does not exist?

God could surely create Hell, so if there is no hell, then perhaps not creating Hell would be, in itself, mercy. Perhaps God has created Hell but in his mercy has made it empty.

2) If the wages of sin is death, and there is no death or hell (Rev. 1.18), then, why doe we need Christ? Why did Christ die on a cross? Why do we have to believe in Jesus? How can we perish if there is no hell (John 3.16)? How can the lake of fire be for ever and ever if it does not exist?

Maybe the lake of fire is for ever and ever but empty. Maybe the lake of fire is for ever and ever, but people pass through it for only short times. We need Christ because we live in a fallen world, and we live with our fallen desires, and Christ has come to redeem and transform the whole world...not just to give free tickets to Heaven to the people who decide to believe in Him. He has defeated sin and death. Why did Christ die? Because that's the kind of world we live in. One so fallen that some people can't even recognize goodness when they see it.

I recognize that a disbelief in Hell leads to some logical difficulties if you take the Bible fairly literally. But a belief in Hell for everyone who doesn't believe in Jesus leads to logical difficulties as well, so I have to defer a firm opinion.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

That reminds me of something that one of my theology professors said: We know there is a Hell, but we don't know if anyone is in it.

 

[raphael_aa]

I personally do not believe in hell. It does not square with my understanding of the God I know at this time.

My understanding of God's mercy is that He extends mercy to us all at all times by placing us in a world where we may mature spiritually. Some of us accept that mercy more readily than others. What happens to a person who steadfastly refuses to grow over the course of their life? I honestly don't know. If our individual consciousnesses continue (and I am not convinced they do) I suspect that God continues to woo them. 'Hell' then is that state we ourselves choose. It is never God's intention for any of us and I would be surprised if anyone could remain stubborn for eternity.

 

[seebs]

If there is no hell, I guess that means God's exceptionally merciful.

Who's more merciful, the person who dangles you over a cliff, then pulls you up, or the person who never put a cliff there?

 

[ahab]

If there is no hell/eternal death/punishment then I guess there isnt any mercy or eternal life or Jesus for that matter.


Only kidding of course there is.

 

[double_j]

since the current beleif is that hell is only a place of aloneness and absence of God, and not a real lake of fire, then perhaps we are there for as long as it takes for us to come to terms with the evil in our lives, and then when we have faced all of our evils and have placed our faith in God (who there will be no doubt in our minds that He exists) then we are allowed into God's kingdom.

As it is, God is eternal, so if we are made in His image are we eternal? Can God destroy that which He has decreed shall be eternal? I am sure He can if he wants to. If hell is actually distance from God and anything, then there will be a lot of people who will need a lot of time to suffer for their sins, and they will take a long time to free themsleves. Perhaps not eternity, but a very long time.

 

[theseed]

If there is no hell, I guess that means God's exceptionally merciful.

Who's more merciful, the person who dangles you over a cliff, then pulls you up, or the person who never put a cliff there?

That would not be mercy at all.

 

[theseed]

If hell is actually distance from God and anything, then there will be a lot of people who will need a lot of time to suffer for their sins, and they will take a long time to free themsleves. Perhaps not eternity, but a very long time.

The following passage indicates that Christ does not pay for the sins of all, but for many, and a person will only be judged once.


Hebrews (KJV)
26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

If hell is only seperation from God, then why does The Bible uses images of "fire" and And "weeping" and "nashing of teeth"? If metaphorical, then it still does not fit the theolgy that Hell is not a place of torment.

 

[theseed]

I personally do not believe in hell. It does not square with my understanding of the God I know at this time.

My understanding of God's mercy is that He extends mercy to us all at all times by placing us in a world where we may mature spiritually. Some of us accept that mercy more readily than others. What happens to a person who steadfastly refuses to grow over the course of their life? I honestly don't know. If our individual consciousnesses continue (and I am not convinced they do) I suspect that God continues to woo them. 'Hell' then is that state we ourselves choose. It is never God's intention for any of us and I would be surprised if anyone could remain stubborn for eternity.

The writer of Hebrews teaches that we only get one judgment

[bible]Hebrews 9:27[/bible]

 

[theseed]

This is also not true, we know that there will be 3 people in Hell.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[theseed]

I recognize that a disbelief in Hell leads to some logical difficulties if you take the Bible fairly literally. But a belief in Hell for everyone who doesn't believe in Jesus leads to logical difficulties as well, so I have to defer a firm opinion.

I would say that it is not a logical difficulty but an emotional difficulty.

 

[double_j]

If hell is only seperation from God, then why does The Bible uses images of "fire" and And "weeping" and "nashing of teeth"? If metaphorical, then it still does not fit the theolgy that Hell is not a place of torment.

what greater torment could there be than to know your creater, know his kingdom and then be denied it all because of your choices?

If youa re cut off from God, and you are in nothingness, with no light, no stimulus whatsoever, completely alone forever, youa re without any physical reality and you cant go anywhere, essentially you are inside your mind for eternity, would that not be enough to make you weep and gnash your teeth (figuratively since you will not have them)?

Especially witht he knowledge of all you could have had if you had changed your ways. You would have nothing to do but contemplate your life and your existance. I would equate it to being stuck in a coffin and burried, but staying alive some how. Thats more torture than I want to endure for eternity.

 

[Blackmarch]

Off Topic question: what is 'hell' if 'hell' will be thrown into a lake of fire? Is hell destroyed by itself?

It is a place of punishment but of a limited time then, perhaps eneugh to pay for sins committed in life.

 

[theseed]

what greater torment could there be than to know your creater, know his kingdom and then be denied it all because of your choices?

If youa re cut off from God, and you are in nothingness, with no light, no stimulus whatsoever, completely alone forever, youa re without any physical reality and you cant go anywhere, essentially you are inside your mind for eternity, would that not be enough to make you weep and gnash your teeth (figuratively since you will not have them)?

Especially witht he knowledge of all you could have had if you had changed your ways. You would have nothing to do but contemplate your life and your existance. I would equate it to being stuck in a coffin and burried, but staying alive some how. Thats more torture than I want to endure for eternity.

And what about the "fire" part? Where does it come from?

 

[Phred]

1) if there is not a hell, then how do you explain God's mercy?

If Gotham City doesn't exist, how do you explain the Batmobile?

.​

 

[theseed]

If Gotham City doesn't exist, how do you explain the Batmobile?

.​

Mercy is the "indirect object" while "mercy" is the action verb of the indirect object.

"Gotham" is a noun, and and "batmobile" is a noun. The only thing they have in common is that they are part of the same fictional story, "Batman". Hence, I don't see any logical connection between your statement and my #1.

 

[ufigureitout]

I know hell exists because God said it does. I know I'm not going there because I did what God said. Why try to make this into something that it isn't? Why put your own interpretation into the word of God. If you understood it, then you wouldn't need faith, and without faith, everything that God has ever said is pointless.

Hell sucks, just trust Him on this one.