If you are frustrated......

seajoy · May 31, 2011

Tangible said:
I'm surprised about the advice forum response. A lot of people seem to have some very strange ideas about Lutheranism. What was the topic of the thread?

suffering - bad stuff happening to Christians and whether God forsakes and things like that.

Zecryphon · May 31, 2011

seajoy said:
It looks like they sent "offensive" back over here to taunt us some more. This is getting more weird each day.

I was told by a poster in the advice forum that I'm Lutheran and we don't have anything in common for for me to be of help to him.

Sadly, he's probably right. We take Christ at His word. Other denoms say they take Christ at His word, but then add their own actions to help Christ out since He's so incapable of doing anything on His own with out our permission first.

seajoy · May 31, 2011

Zecryphon said:
Sadly, he's probably right. We take Christ at His word. Other denoms say they take Christ at His word, but then add their own actions to help Christ out since He's so incapable of doing anything on His own with our permission first.

I've noticed that. Lots of what I say over there is like, huh? I keep hearing "you have to do this or you have to do that." "You can't stop at just believing." Oh really? Read Ephesians lately?

Tangible · May 31, 2011

Outside of TCL, CF really is a foreign place for Lutherans.

Zecryphon · May 31, 2011

Tangible said:
Outside of TCL, CF really is a foreign place for Lutherans.

Lately TCL hasn't been all that familiar of a place for Lutherans either.

seajoy · May 31, 2011

What are we, freaks? And that is a serious question.

Zecryphon · May 31, 2011

seajoy said:
What are we, freaks? And that is a serious question.

No, we're not freaks. We adhere to the faith, faithfully. It's when we do things like break fellowship with churches that teach falsely or practice things we find unBiblical, or put someone outside the church until they repent of their sin, that mainstream Christianity thinks us weird, because these things are foreign to them. To them it's all about "ME" and God is nothing more than a big warm fuzzy that they can cling to, who would never uphold His law and throw anyone into Hell. Everyone will be in heaven with all the unicorns and cotton candy and rainbows and everything else their imaginations tell them will be there because they want it to be there.

LilLamb219 · May 31, 2011

I just went to that new thread...seriously, someone has some big issues methinks

If she wants to go on her big tirade, let her. Just smile and nod folks. It's not worth getting into it with people like that.

Zecryphon · May 31, 2011

LilLamb219 said:
I just went to that new thread...seriously, someone has some big issues methinks

LilLamb219 said:
If she wants to go on her big tirade, let her. Just smile and nod folks. It's not worth getting into it with people like that.

Oh, I don't know about that. I'm sure I could have some fun with them and their false doctrines.

DaRev · May 31, 2011

The REAL problem with people outside of the Lutheran Church is that when they hear "Lutheran" many of them think "oh, they're the ones that ordain homosexuals and do same-sex unions - they don't believe in the word of God." This irritates me no end.

Bryne · May 31, 2011

I get frustrated when people insist that Luther taught the exact same things that Calvin taught...

Or...they think we aren't Christian because we are just like the Catholics.

Studeclunker · May 31, 2011

DaRev said:
The REAL problem with people outside of the Lutheran Church is that when they hear "Lutheran" many of them think "oh, they're the ones that ordain homosexuals and do same-sex unions - they don't believe in the word of God." This irritates me no end.

Oh, I'll second that motion!

I spend more time explaining that we (WELS, LCMS) are not affiliated with that heretical, fallen organization than I do what we actually do believe.

People just find it amazing that the conservative Lutherans don't legally force those people to drop Lutheran from their name. It really puzzles them that we can't do it.

filosofer · May 31, 2011

Zecryphon said:
If she is ELCA, she is not a Lutheran.

A bit over the top... Having worked with people in ELCA churches over the past two years, I have found many genuine Lutherans who are struggling with what ELCA has done. In some cases they have been taught the truth, in other cases, the teaching has been mingled. But the people have clung to the faith once delivered. Yes, it is getting harder for them to remain. But this is a time we can help them, not declare them “non-Lutheran because they are members in an ELCA congregation.”

But, shoot, what do I know...

Zecryphon · May 31, 2011

It's not over the top even a little bit. Did you miss the exchange between myself and DTK, where he told us in his own words, that the ELCA does not practice the Sacrament of the Altar as Article X of the Augsburg Confession teaches? I wasn't aware that all you had to do to be a Lutheran is just say you are. I thought we had to do as the Confessions teach. The ELCA can claim to be Lutheran all they want in their writings, but until they actually practice and abide by the Lutheran Confessions, they are not Lutherans. My declaration of non-Lutheran is based on more than just being in the ELCA.

Studeclunker · May 31, 2011

A valid point Filo. Let us pray that these people are the active part of the Holy Spirit's constant pull to us. Let us also pray that they influence that fallen organization to return to the truth. Yet, let us also pray that they are not so polluted by what the fallen leadership is teaching that they also fall. May we pray that these, who are currently sealed with the Holy Spirit are not overcome with the wiles of the evil one as their leadership has obviously been.

Studeclunker · May 31, 2011

Whilst I agree with you Zec in regards to the organization itself, I can't quite agree with a blanket condemnation. There are many in that fallen organization who do adhere in their hearts and minds to all the Lutheran confessions. So whilst membership might indicate that situation strongly, it does not necessarily equate to rejection of the confessions and thus Lutheran beliefs in general.

filosofer · May 31, 2011

Zecryphon said:
It's not over the top even a little bit. Did you miss the exchange between myself and DTK, where he told us in his own words, that the ELCA does not practice the Sacrament of the Altar as Article X of the Augsburg Confession teaches? I wasn't aware that all you had to do to be a Lutheran is just say you are. I thought we had to do as the Confessions teach. The ELCA can claim to be Lutheran all they want in their writings, but until they actually practice and abide by the Lutheran Confessions, they are not Lutherans.

Do you think it appropriate to use one persons position to lump all members in the ELCA together as if that persons thoughts, etc. are supreme. I dont know the person or what he/she has written in that specific case you are referring to, but to make the generalization that no one in the ELCA is Lutheran is indeed over the top. I personally know an ELCA man who would shame most LCMS/WELS people (and pastors) in understanding what it means to confess the Christian faith as a Lutheran. But I would not characterize all (or even many) ELCA members like him.

And further, I have found that many ELCA people will ask serious questions once they know that I am serious about listening to them. I dont harangue them about being ELCA. I ask them about their lives, their faith, their concerns. Its amazing how many doors have been opened. And they are hungry for that type of exchange, and for the opportunity to learn more about what Scripture says.

QuiltAngel · May 31, 2011

Filo, the comment was made about someone who has been attending a ND church for a long time who also claims to still have membership in a Lutheran Church. She definitely has the beliefs of ND's. Things like decision for Christ, works, age of accountability, etc.

I do agree that there are many in the ELCA who are seriously considering and praying about their church and what to do as well as where they go from here.

OhioMom66 · May 31, 2011

Studeclunker said:
A valid point Filo. Let us pray that these people are the active part of the Holy Spirit's constant pull to us. Let us also pray that they influence that fallen organization to return to the truth. Yet, let us also pray that they are not so polluted by what the fallen leadership is teaching that they also fall. May we pray that these, who are currently sealed with the Holy Spirit are not overcome with the wiles of the evil one as their leadership has obviously been.

Amen.

Blessings, Beth

Zecryphon · May 31, 2011

I'm not giving a blanket condemnation. I talked with DTK before declaring him to not be a Lutheran or is everyone choosing to ignore that?

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