If sin is God's plan, how are we to repent?

[cedward1]

I'm just curious. If people who sin do so because God willed that they would, how would someone feel sorry for sinning if they knew it was God's will? Wouldn't you be glad that you did it, because you were fulfilling God's plan for your life?

 

[Paul Hunt]

Dear Sir,

God does indeed allow sin to occur, but that does not imply approval. God's creation was whole and complete and perfect in the innocence before Adam's fall. Had Adam chosen to remain loyal (and I believe it was a real choice) God would have been quite content never to have allowed sin to progress from Satan to Man. Since the fall creation exists in an abberation from what God intended, and he is using Christ's twofold intervention to reset creation (or part of it anyway) to the condition he always intended for it. God never intended sin to be part of our inheritance, unfortunately it is and we have to deal with that in our lives.

God Bless Paul Hunt

 

[Hismessenger]

Cedward 1, what you say is more on than you know for part of the human experience is the lack of understanding of that fact. When you can grasp the truth that this is Gods creation and submit to his divine will, then all will be as he has planned it.

hismessenger

 

[Paul Hunt]

Great, Lets take that to its final logical conclusion. Since Coach Sandusky was performing God's will in molesting those boys he should be happy he was performing God's will??? So he should continue to do so and why are we interfering with God's will by arresting him??? Down the road of your conclusions lies chaos. God does not want sin in creation. I agree he may use it for good as in Joseph's case in Genesis but he would rather we not sin and he will have other ways of maturing us. Yes, he can use the sin we decide to do to turn it for better, but he always had other less injurious way open to him to accomplish his purposes. He did not have to get Joseph sold into slavery to get Israel into Egypt where he wanted them.

God Bless Paul Hunt

 

[branchofthevine]

remember God has a permissive will and an intended will.

God did not intend for sin to happen, but He allowed it to happen.

 

[Hismessenger]

How is it that so many can not see that God doesn't allow anything because before we were ever made manifest, all the creation was done from beginning to end. We were not there to make any of the choices we choose but yet God planned them. For he did not manifest us to see what we would choose before the creation was wrought. Open your eyes and ears to the truth. What you want to call foreknowledge is actually God seeing each of us in his mind and deciding our purpose in Him for the word says this if you look. Then He created us to fulfill that purpose.

All things in the creation are for His purpose, including what we call the evil. He said that everything that he has done was very good. That is related to purpose, not morality, for he is above all in everything and all things will come to pass just as He ordained it.

Here is another aspect of repentance that most have never considered. First repentance is not just saying I'm sorry and asking forgiveness. Repentance is to come to understand what it is that you have done wrong, and then asking the Spirit to help you change the way you think. That is the essence of true repentance. Changing your actions and thought about a particular situation.

With that being explained, the scripture says not to use your christian liberty to sin. Why do you think that was said? There is a definite correlation to this discussion. Anyone care to take a stab at it?

hismessenger

 

[James-49]

How is it that so many can not see that God doesn't allow anything because before we were ever made manifest, all the creation was done from beginning to end. We were not there to make any of the choices we choose but yet God planned them. For he did not manifest us to see what we would choose before the creation was wrought.

First repentance is not just saying I'm sorry and asking forgiveness. Repentance is to come to understand what it is that you have done wrong, and then asking the Spirit to help you change the way you think. That is the essence of true repentance. Changing your actions and thought about a particular situation.

hismessenger

Do you see the contradiction of your statements? God decided our choices and actions - according to you - before we ever were. On that position, there is no such thing as "repentance" as you define it.

Every post where I have confronted your theories you had side-stepped. Your assertions are not researched and they insult God.

Perhaps you and I need to take this to the formal debates. I doubt I'll convince you, but others should see for themselves.

 

[Hismessenger]

Simple question. Were you there when God planned the creation. The truth shall set you free even when it assaults what you believe to be true over what is really true. Were you there to make the choices that you make when He was planning the creation. The human genome tends to think more highly of itself than God has planned. And why, so that the truth may shine forth in the darkness. It's God's world and creation. Can you cause anything to change from what he has ordained or is prophesy only so many words. Everything He has said has come true, even with our choices so who is in control. Our choices or His will. Answer that truthfully for yourself and then see the repentance take hold in your spirit. We can't question God with any integrity for what we have came from Him and without Him we are nothing.

hismessenger

 

[Hismessenger]

Isa 40:12 ¶
Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?


Isa 40:13
Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or [being] his counsellor hath taught him?

Isa 40:14
With whom took he counsel, and [who] instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?


Isa 40:15
Behold, the nations [are] as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.

Isa 40:16
And Lebanon [is] not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering.

Isa 40:17
All nations before him [are] as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.

Isa 40:18
To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?

You would be truly wise to take heed to what this is saying for no matter what you think. it is His plan and you can't make a scratch in it with what you think.

hismessenger

 

[Hismessenger]

Let me add this for repentance, It is to come to see the error in your thinking, ie, that your choices were made solely by you, yet what God has ordained and prophesied has all come to pass even as you choose what you thought was your own choice. The word of God is true and everything that He purposed will come to pass even as HE planned it. No matter what our choices are for ultimately they will bring about His purpose. Look at the last chapters of Job where God questions Job and take heed for it pertains to everyone who ever will take a breath in God's creation. Drop the religious mind and take hold of the Spirit. He will give you all truth.

hismessenger

 

[James-49]

What you're saying is God ordained before anything ever was that I would choose the black sweater today, rather than the blue, because His plan involves my wearing the black.
If I could make my own choices I might wear the blue in which case I would mess up God's plan ... in other words God requires absolute control, He doesn't just exercise it.

I'm saying I do not agree with that. And I see how you keep deflecting from a "safe" position. So I say again:

"Perhaps you and I need to take this to the formal debates. "

 

[Hismessenger]

Go back and read Romans Chapter 9. I asked the question on christian liberty and still no one has attempted an answer. That question along with Romans 9 go hand in hand when you understand What it is saying.

I'm not saying what you imply James, the word is. This isn't about a debate but rather understanding And it is all there in the word.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

If you have to ask, then you really don't know.

hismessenger

 

[Hismessenger]

in other words God requires absolute control,

He doesn't require anything that he already has. You don't seem to get it. Could or can you take a breath without him?

hismessenger

 

[James-49]

You don't seem to get it.
hismessenger

Why do you say that as if I'm at fault? Isn't it God's fault that I don't get it - according to you?

It's obvious you won't stand on your beliefs. I suggested a debate because you're all over the map in what you say, and it would be an opportunity for you to present your position in a way that might actually help others.
But I think you're aware yourself that you're building on sand. If one thing is true then you want to overlay it on everything. And you've established a premise in which you selectively use scripture to try and support. I understand why you would not wish to debate formally.

 

[Hismessenger]

Why do you say that as if I'm at fault? Isn't it God's fault that I don't get it - according to you?

The scripture I gave you show that God is in absolute control but you don;t want to accept that truth because it puts us in our place. That is why Paul said to not abuse you christian liberty because when you realize and accept that truth, your statement turns out to be ever so true and it assaults your senses because you can't grasp the fact that God has shown you a deeper truth about who he is. To the one who understands, God isn't finding fault for if there was a fault in his reasoning, then he would not be God almighty, never given to make any mistakes. But He is God almighty all by himself.
That is why Paul made that admonishment. When you realize that there is nothing which happens in this creation that is not by the divine will of God, some will have the thought that it's God's will anyway and try and use that as a reason to sin. It couldn't be any further from the truth. Because when you understand that truth, you become even more responsible to be righteous before God because it goes both ways. Either you can sin or either be righteous before God. Which ever it is, you are still under His control.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?

hismessenger

 

[holyrokker]

If sin is God's plan, then such a god wouldn't be God.

 

[OzSpen]

I'm just curious. If people who sin do so because God willed that they would, how would someone feel sorry for sinning if they knew it was God's will? Wouldn't you be glad that you did it, because you were fulfilling God's plan for your life?

It is now 10 days since you asked these questions and there have been a number of replies since then. But cedward1 has not responded.

Was this a troll?

Oz

 

[visionary]

I'm just curious. If people who sin do so because God willed that they would, how would someone feel sorry for sinning if they knew it was God's will? Wouldn't you be glad that you did it, because you were fulfilling God's plan for your life?

I would say that sin was not part of God's ultimate plan, but rather He had a contingency plan should it occur.

 

[OzSpen]

He doesn't require anything that he already has. You don't seem to get it. Could or can you take a breath without him?

hismessenger

I want to pursue your statement to its logical conclusion. Can I pick my nose, go to the toilet, have a shower and mow my garden lawn without him?

I know that I need his breath and strength to do these things, but what about the specific trite acts I have just listed? Can I commit the specific act of picking my nose without him?

Or, has he given me free will to choose these things (and their consequences) and in his foreknowledge, he knows what I will do?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

I would say that sin was not part of God's ultimate plan, but rather He had a contingency plan should it occur.

What is your biblical evidence for this?

Oz