If Scriptura Wasn't Sola

[SigurdReginson]

I've been reading a little about Pelagius lately, and he was a fascinating guy...

For those of you who don't know, Pelagius was an early christian who believed and taught very heretical things.

When writing to a new christian, one of the things he wrote was "...You will realise that the doctrines are inventions of the human mind as it tries to penetrate the mysteries of god. You will realise that scripture itself is the work of human minds recording the examples and teachings of Jesus Christ."

Though this man believed that the scriptures were man made, and that it didn't hold the authority of Sola Scriptura, he was still passionate about his faith.

You see, I grew up with a very baptist/fundamentalist idea of the innerancy and authority of the bible. Had I been convinced that the bible was a flawed creation of man, it would have compromised my faith. It didn't seem to compromise Pelagius, however, and it only seemed to have bolstered his faith.

So, I guess this has me wondering... For those of you who feel the bible is the infallible word of god: would being convinced that it wasn't infallible sabotage your faith?

For those of you who feel the bible is only god inspired, and written by fallible men: would your faith become sabotaged if you became convinced that the bible was infact not inspired by god, and was just an invention of man?

Just curious!

 

[Clare73]

I've been reading a little about Pelagius lately, and he was a fascinating guy...

For those of you who don't know, Pelagius was an early christian who believed and taught very heretical things.

When writing to a new christian, one of the things he wrote was "...You will realise that the doctrines are inventions of the human mind as it tries to penetrate the mysteries of god. You will realise that scripture itself is the work of human minds recording the examples and teachings of Jesus Christ."

Though this man believed that the scriptures were man made, and that it didn't hold the authority of Sola Scriptura, he was still passionate about his faith.

You see, I grew up with a very baptist/fundamentalist idea of the innerancy and authority of the bible. Had I been convinced that the bible was a flawed creation of man, it would have compromised my faith. It didn't seem to compromise Pelagius, however, and it only seemed to have bolstered his faith.

So, I guess this has me wondering... For those of you who feel the bible is the infallible word of god: would being convinced that it wasn't infallible sabotage your faith?

For those of you who feel the bible is only god inspired, and written by fallible men: would your faith become sabotaged if you became convinced that the bible was infact not inspired by god, and was just an invention of man?

Just curious!

I would need to know more about his faith--its object, its content, its practice--to determine the nature of what he was passionate about,
was it Biblical or not.

 

[Speedwell]

I've been reading a little about Pelagius lately, and he was a fascinating guy...

For those of you who don't know, Pelagius was an early christian who believed and taught very heretical things.

When writing to a new christian, one of the things he wrote was "...You will realise that the doctrines are inventions of the human mind as it tries to penetrate the mysteries of god. You will realise that scripture itself is the work of human minds recording the examples and teachings of Jesus Christ."

Though this man believed that the scriptures were man made, and that it didn't hold the authority of Sola Scriptura, he was still passionate about his faith.

You see, I grew up with a very baptist/fundamentalist idea of the innerancy and authority of the bible. Had I been convinced that the bible was a flawed creation of man, it would have compromised my faith. It didn't seem to compromise Pelagius, however, and it only seemed to have bolstered his faith.

So, I guess this has me wondering... For those of you who feel the bible is the infallible word of god: would being convinced that it wasn't infallible sabotage your faith?

For those of you who feel the bible is only god inspired, and written by fallible men: would your faith become sabotaged if you became convinced that the bible was infact not inspired by god, and was just an invention of man?

Just curious!

Without Sola Scriptura one would just be a Traditional Christian. No problem (except for those who think not being a right-wing fundamentalist Evangelical is not being a Christian at all.)

 

[Speedwell]

I would need to know more about his faith--its object, its content, its practice--to determine the nature of what he was passionate about,
was it Biblical or not.

Pelagius had unconventional ideas about soteriology and believed it was theoretically possible to gain salvation through works--although he didn't think anyone could actually do it.

 

[Clare73]

Pelagius had unconventional ideas about soteriology and believed it was theoretically possible to gain salvation through works--although he didn't think anyone could actually do it.

Except that the Mosaic Law wasn't given for salvation (Gal 3:17-19), which has been of grace/faith since the Abrahamic Covenant (Ge 15:6),
so even theoretically, it's not possible.

The Mosaic Law was given to reveal sin and prefigure its remedy in Jesus Christ.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

(not the mad )

It's kind of an anachronism since sola scriptura wasn't a thing till over 1000 years later.

I went through a disillusionment of that nature, and still believe - the main effect was a reduction of faith in organized religion, but the faith in Jesus remains.

 

[Speedwell]

Except that the Mosaic Law wasn't given for salvation (Gal 3:17-19), which has been of grace/faith since the Abrahamic Covenant (Ge 15:6),
so even theoretically, it's not possible.

The Mosaic Law was given to reveal sin and prefigure its remedy in Jesus Christ.

I wonder, if somehow somebody actually did mange to get to heaven through good works, if Jesus would be as annoyed about it as the Fundamentalists?

 

[SigurdReginson]

I would need to know more about his faith--its object, its content, its practice--to determine the nature of what he was passionate about,
was it Biblical or not.

Hmmm... That, I couldn't say. He definitely has some unbiblical ideas on things, hence why the catholic church declared him a heretic. His letters are a super interesting read, however!

Ultimately, though, I'm more curious about you. Are you saying it would depend on the kind of evidence presented?

 

[SigurdReginson]

Without Sola Scriptura one would just be a Traditional Christian. No problem (except for those who think not being a right-wing fundamentalist Evangelical is not being a Christian at all.)

Ok! What about my second question, then? That one is directed more towards christians such as yourself.

 

[Andrewn]

You see, I grew up with a very baptist/fundamentalist idea of the innerancy and authority of the bible. Had I been convinced that the bible was a flawed creation of man, it would have compromised my faith. It didn't seem to compromise Pelagius, however, and it only seemed to have bolstered his faith.

This is rather funny coming from a person who self-identifies as an atheist .

Though this man believed that the scriptures were man made, and that it didn't hold the authority of Sola Scriptura, he was still passionate about his faith.

There is no such a thing as Sola Scriptura. There are thousands of denominations which disagree on exactly what the Bible says and end up sticking to traditions they invent.

So, I guess this has me wondering... For those of you who feel the bible is the infallible word of god: would being convinced that it wasn't infallible sabotage your faith?

For those of you who feel the bible is only god inspired, and written by fallible men: would your faith become sabotaged if you became convinced that the bible was infact not inspired by god, and was just an invention of man?

The Bible is certainly inspired by God. A lot of other books are also inspired by God. The Anglican Forum is called Scripture, Tradition, Reason.

 

[SigurdReginson]

(not the mad )

It's kind of an anachronism since sola scriptura wasn't a thing till over 1000 years later.

I went through a disillusionment of that nature, and still believe - the main effect was a reduction of faith in organized religion, but the faith in Jesus remains.

Yyyaaahhhhh technically sola scriptural isn't a thing anymore, but it kind of is.

The question is based more on the bible, however, not the organized religion. What if your faith in the actual book was shaken?

 

[Speedwell]

(not the mad )

It's kind of an anachronism since sola scriptura wasn't a thing till over 1000 years later.

I went through a disillusionment of that nature, and still believe - the main effect was a reduction of faith in organized religion, but the faith in Jesus remains.

One wonders how Christianity survived all that time without it.

But I have had conversations with several Fundamentalists in this forum who tried to convince me that the Apostolic Fathers secretly believed in Sola Scriptura but were afraid to teach it.

 

[SigurdReginson]

This is rather funny coming from a person who self-identifies as an atheist .

Glad I can be a target for your amusement.

There is no such a thing as Sola Scriptura. There are thousands of denominations which disagree on exactly what the Bible says and end up sticking to traditions they invent.

Ok... Let me rephrase things, then. How about the "authority and innerancy" of the bible.

The Bible is certainly inspired by God. A lot of other books are also inspired by God.

Interesting! Could you name a few? Also, are they on the same level of inspiration as the bible?

 

[Speedwell]

Yyyaaahhhhh technically sola scriptural isn't a thing anymore, but it kind of is.

The question is based more on the bible, however, not the organized religion. What if your faith in the actual book was shaken?

See, that's the thing: For Traditional Christians the Bible is what we believe, not why we believe it. It's a source of details about doctrine, not the foundation of our faith.

 

[Clare73]

Hmmm... That, I couldn't say. He definitely has some unbiblical ideas on things, hence why the catholic church declared him a heretic. His letters are a super interesting read, however!

Ultimately, though, I'm more curious about you. Are you saying it would depend on the kind of evidence presented?

If he relied on works (law keeping), he was under a curse (Gal 3:10).
If he thought works saved, he was anathema (Gal 1:6-9).
If he added works to justification, he fell from grace (Gal 5:4), etc.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I've been reading a little about Pelagius lately, and he was a fascinating guy...

For those of you who don't know, Pelagius was an early christian who believed and taught very heretical things.

When writing to a new christian, one of the things he wrote was "...You will realise that the doctrines are inventions of the human mind as it tries to penetrate the mysteries of god. You will realise that scripture itself is the work of human minds recording the examples and teachings of Jesus Christ."

Though this man believed that the scriptures were man made, and that it didn't hold the authority of Sola Scriptura, he was still passionate about his faith.

You see, I grew up with a very baptist/fundamentalist idea of the innerancy and authority of the bible. Had I been convinced that the bible was a flawed creation of man, it would have compromised my faith. It didn't seem to compromise Pelagius, however, and it only seemed to have bolstered his faith.

So, I guess this has me wondering... For those of you who feel the bible is the infallible word of god: would being convinced that it wasn't infallible sabotage your faith?

For those of you who feel the bible is only god inspired, and written by fallible men: would your faith become sabotaged if you became convinced that the bible was infact not inspired by god, and was just an invention of man?

Just curious!

I believe you are reading his comment with a lens that views the " human mind" as purely humanistic when in fact all the authors of New Testament scripture were guilded by the Holy Spirit and more importantly chosen by Jesus Christ of Nazareth to be the Foundation of the faith and holding the "Keys" to salvation.

 

[Albion]

So, I guess this has me wondering... For those of you who feel the bible is the infallible word of god: would being convinced that it wasn't infallible sabotage your faith?

For those of you who feel the bible is only god inspired, and written by fallible men: would your faith become sabotaged if you became convinced that the bible was in fact not inspired by god, and was just an invention of man?

How could what you are asking about happen? In either case.

 

[SigurdReginson]

How could what you are asking about happen? In either case.

I guess that's what I'm trying to wrap my head around. I only know of christianity what my narrow slice of experience has taught me, and ultimately everyone's experiences and understandings are different.

I simply want to scratch the itch of my curiosity. what is your understanding?

 

[SigurdReginson]

I believe you are reading his comment with a lens that views the " human mind" as purely humanistic when in fact all the authors of New Testament scripture were guilded by the Holy Spirit and more importantly chosen by Jesus Christ of Nazareth to be the Foundation of the faith and holding the "Keys" to salvation.

I really appreciate that. Thank you for your insight!

 

[Dave L]

I've been reading a little about Pelagius lately, and he was a fascinating guy...

For those of you who don't know, Pelagius was an early christian who believed and taught very heretical things.

When writing to a new christian, one of the things he wrote was "...You will realise that the doctrines are inventions of the human mind as it tries to penetrate the mysteries of god. You will realise that scripture itself is the work of human minds recording the examples and teachings of Jesus Christ."

Though this man believed that the scriptures were man made, and that it didn't hold the authority of Sola Scriptura, he was still passionate about his faith.

You see, I grew up with a very baptist/fundamentalist idea of the innerancy and authority of the bible. Had I been convinced that the bible was a flawed creation of man, it would have compromised my faith. It didn't seem to compromise Pelagius, however, and it only seemed to have bolstered his faith.

So, I guess this has me wondering... For those of you who feel the bible is the infallible word of god: would being convinced that it wasn't infallible sabotage your faith?

For those of you who feel the bible is only god inspired, and written by fallible men: would your faith become sabotaged if you became convinced that the bible was infact not inspired by god, and was just an invention of man?

Just curious!

Only the born again can understand scripture. It is a spiritual book Pelagius could not understand as well as many of his unwitting followers today.