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The whole difference is, not all Christians who grew up in Christian families have a real experience with God. Being born in a Christian family is simply a privilege for a child to be taught in the Scriptures and to be exposed to the idea of a Creator, it is not a guarantee that someone will remain a professing Christian. To have a conversion experience, every single child or adult needs to have an experience with God. This is what happened to me, and when I was yet an atheist.
So it is clear that you also, changed your beliefs, upon reading men's works. Have you studied and tested the Dead Sea Scrolls? Have you tested the truthfulness of writings of both men who validate and discredit the Bible? Or did you merely assent to the side which made more sense to you? Error always results when someone looks and tests only one side of the story, but wholly ignore the other side.
Did you read for yourself how and what made some atheists turn to Christianity?
Many among them are no less educated than professing atheists, so clearly something must have made them reject atheism. Its strange that current hardcore Christian-turned-atheists never thought of asking how these group of ex-atheists converted to Christianity, but then try to discredit Christianity as though their own conversion are more reliable than those who once professed atheism.
You could not be more wrong.
I was a Christian for 40 years and at one time, actually dived into the bible for support and it took me on a journey I did not plan on; a thorough scholarly and historical review of the NT, by reading the works of many NT scholars and historians. I learned quite a bit in that effort, and it was one of the main reasons, I could not reconcile the Christian story any longer.
The vast majority of atheists are former Christians and they educated themselves and acquired knowledge throughout their life, that made the Christian story not believable. In fact, there was a study done several years ago, in which religious knowledge was tested amongst believers and non-believers and non-believers had a higher degree of religious knowledge than believers did.
Never assume an atheist got to where they are from a lack of learning or looking at the evidence, because it is usually the exact opposite and could also be why, people with higher degrees of education, also have a greater chance of being an atheist.
Suppose that God manifests himself in some sort of physical or spiritual revelation, to you personally, you and a group of people, or to the entire planet.
Excuse me, but I once was a Christian. I studied Christianity.
Then that only shows how little you know of those you are criticising.
I am not word-playing. Why would I mean "all atheists" if I know there are atheists who later converted to Christianity? I myself was an atheist until God converted me. I might have been unclear, but please don't impose meanings onto what I say because you have a different interpretation from what I actually mean.
Yes, or rather ex-atheists. I am among ex-atheists. Yet that doesn't discount the fact I was once an atheist. Lots of accounts of educated atheists-turned-Christians around if you just google it.
The Dead Sea Scrolls. You can very well obtain a reliable source of it yourself.
From what I know, they obtain their learning from bestsellers by Dawkins and other New Atheists. The internet offers thousandfold proof of this (at least as far as "internet atheists" are concerned). I have yet to meet an atheist who has profitably read Aristotle (more or less an unbeliever himself) and Aquinas. Even Anthony Flew, who was considered the greatest atheist of recent decades, until he rejected atheism, only began studying Aristotle at an advanced age.
And how detailed was that study? Merely reading some modern day conspiracies that seemingly makes sense? If so, that is not study.
And how detailed was that study? Merely reading some modern day conspiracies that seemingly makes sense? If so, that is not study.
I speak what I observe, nothing more nothing less. If I am wrong, it is because there was no explanation offered that I could use to evaluate deeper into the situation.
It is awfully presumptuous, rude even, for you to comment on other people's religious experiences, as if you had some inkling of what they actually experienced.
Have you read for yourself why many Christians leave the faith and become atheists?
Oh please, you're hardly one to talk, given that you are here trying to belittle the religious experiences of those who have since left the faith.
I seriously contemplated becoming a pastor, and before embarking for university I had intended on studying theology formally, to supplement my own reading on the subject.
Why are you offended? I am stating a fact that can be applied to anyone. A person, who is born into any faith, needs to experience the realities of the faith to be fully convinced. How is that rude?
Yes, I have. Why?
How do you know what I'm trying to do? Are you someone who can read hearts? All you did was to take a point I was trying to make personally (for reasons I don't even know of), and then accuse me of belittling.
Did you seek God for yourself when you still believed in Him? Did you have any experience with Him?
That's pretty sweeping. Actually, I think I probably know more atheists who take an active interest in the writings of Aristotle than I do Christians.wiske said:From what I know, they obtain their learning from bestsellers by Dawkins and other New Atheists. The internet offers thousandfold proof of this (at least as far as "internet atheists" are concerned). I have yet to meet an atheist who has profitably read Aristotle (more or less an unbeliever himself) and Aquinas. Even Anthony Flew, who was considered the greatest atheist of recent decades, until he rejected atheism, only began studying Aristotle at an advanced age.
When a person talked to you over the phone, how do you know the person is your dad or mom?
My sheep know my voice. How do they know the voice of God, you ask?
Simple.
They know His voice because:
1. they are active listeners.
2. they are expectant listeners.
3. they are experienced listeners.
(and right there ^ is someone's next three point sermon for Sunday.)
Yes, I had intense and immersive experiences that you might describe as spiritual.
Have any evidence that people leave the faith because of simply reading Dawkins or other atheists books?
I doubt it, because there are plenty of studies out there that have actually asked this question to people who have lost their faith and although it may be disappointing to you, it is not because of Dawkins or the like, it is because of a realization, the stories they used to believe, become something they can no longer reconcile, as they acquire knowledge.
Again, this could be why, those who have achieved higher levels of education, are far more likely to be atheists.
You can't stop the knowledge and education train, it just keeps rolling along.
Again, I ask you to provide sources for this.
Traditional view - Luke the physician as author[edit]
The traditional view is that the Gospel of Luke and Acts were written by the physician Luke, a companion of Paul. Many scholars believe him to be a Gentile Christian, though some scholars think Luke was a Hellenic Jew.[2][3] This Luke is mentioned in Paul's Epistle to Philemon (v.24), and in two other epistles which are traditionally ascribed to Paul (Colossians 4:14 and 2 Timothy 4:11).
The view that Luke-Acts was written by the physician Luke was nearly unanimous in the early Christian church.
LOL, that's a good one. The notion that people abandon God because of knowledge
What absolute, preposterous slander for the justification of going atheist!
People stop believing in God for one reason and one reason alone- because they no longer want to think that there is a force which punishes disobedience but does not promise to deliver to their life all their desires.
All of the big atheist philosophers lost their faith to exactly that- the so called knowledge and philosophizing was just to try and justify their continued dissent after the fact.
And it's no different with all former believers.
How exactly does worldly knowledge, which avails no alternative to God, cause one to not believe in God?
Atheists cannot even be honest with themselves, so I don't really expect them to be honest about anything pertaining to religion_
Please elaborate.
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