If God is all-loving, why ...

[tonychanyt]

Well, the Bible does not exactly mention that God is all loving.

Numbers 14:

18 The LORD is slow to anger and abounding in loving devotion, forgiving iniquity and transgression. Yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished; He will visit the iniquity of the fathers upon their children to the third and fourth generation.'

Romans 9:

13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

1 John 4:

8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

I neither assert nor deny that God is all-loving. I'd stick to the wording in the Bible.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Well, the Bible does not exactly mention that God is all loving.

Numbers 14:


Romans 9:


1 John 4:


I neither assert nor deny that God is all-loving. I'd stick to the wording in the Bible.

Actually, it does mention that God is all loving.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

God loves the world. If that isn't all loving, then I don't know what is. For God to be angry with someone and punish someone doesn't mean He doesn't love them. His love for them is proven by the fact that He gave them the opportunity to have eternal life.

As for God hating Esau, that is not talking about Him literally hating Esau, but is used in a relative sense. He blessed Jacob rather than Esau in the sense of having salvation come through Jacob's line rather than Esau's. The word hate there is used in relative sense like we can see here:

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Surely, Jesus was not telling people to literally hate their father, mother, wife, children, brothers and sisters here. He was telling them not to love them more than they loved Him, as we can see here:

Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

 

[tonychanyt]

Actually, it does mention that God is all loving.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

God loves the world. If that isn't all loving, then I don't know what is. For God to be angry with someone and punish someone doesn't mean He doesn't love them. His love for them is proven by the fact that He gave them the opportunity to have eternal life.

As for God hating Esau, that is not talking about Him literally hating Esau, but is used in a relative sense. He blessed Jacob rather than Esau in the sense of having salvation come through Jacob's line rather than Esau's. The word hate there is used in relative sense like we can see here:

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Surely, Jesus was not telling people to literally hate their father, mother, wife, children, brothers and sisters here. He was telling them not to love them more than they loved Him, as we can see here:

Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

None of these contains the string 'all loving'. I prefer formal precision.

 

[timf]

Precision is important.

First it would be a good idea to define what is meant by the word "love" or "loving". This might entail defining if one is talking about how God feels or how God acts. Secondly one would have to determine how the word "all" s being used. One might mean that God only acts out of love, or that God's love is shown to all (such as with universal salvation).

Another determination would be if the person speaking is not using language to accurately describe truth, but to express their feelings and devotion. For example, I would not "correct" someone who said God was all loving if it were apparent that they were expressing their devotion.

Before any "correction" one would have to define and clarify terms.

 

[David Lamb]

Actually, it does mention that God is all loving.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

God loves the world. If that isn't all loving, then I don't know what is. For God to be angry with someone and punish someone doesn't mean He doesn't love them. His love for them is proven by the fact that He gave them the opportunity to have eternal life.

As for God hating Esau, that is not talking about Him literally hating Esau, but is used in a relative sense. He blessed Jacob rather than Esau in the sense of having salvation come through Jacob's line rather than Esau's. The word hate there is used in relative sense like we can see here:

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Surely, Jesus was not telling people to literally hate their father, mother, wife, children, brothers and sisters here. He was telling them not to love them more than they loved Him, as we can see here:

Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

With John 3:16, it is important in my view to realise that the word translated "so" means "thus" or "in this way". So the verse isn't saying how much God loved the world, but the way in which He does so, giving His Son so that sinners who believe in Him should have eternal life.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

With John 3:16, it is important in my view to realise that the word translated "so" means "thus" or "in this way".

I didn't say otherwise. I agree with this. It doesn't have anything to do with the point I was making. My point is that He loves everyone. So, to me, that would fit with saying He is all loving (He loves all). As timf pointed out, it helps to clarify the terms being used, otherwise we just end up talking past each other because we're not even talking about the same thing in the same context.

So the verse isn't saying how much God loved the world, but the way in which He does so, giving His Son so that sinners who believe in Him should have eternal life.

I agree. At the same time, it appears that He loved the world quite a bit as evidenced by the fact of what He was willing to do for the world.