If God hates us so much...

[b1ohazard]

(Assuming there is a god)
Why did god create us?
If god is all knowing then god knew we would sin.
If god is all knowing then god knew 9/11, etc would happen.
If god is all knowing then god is the author of good and evil.
As the song says
"What god wants, god gets.
God help us all".

 

[RMDY]

(Assuming there is a god)
Why did god create us?
If god is all knowing then god knew we would sin.
If god is all knowing then god knew 9/11, etc would happen.
If god is all knowing then god is the author of good and evil.
As the song says
"What god wants, god gets.
God help us all".

Did God know we would sin? I have no idea. God did give Adam and Eve a choice, which is free will, to obey or disobey him.
It is like in the old testament. Before God lets his people into the promised land, There is talk about God saying he will do this and that if his people follow God properly, but if they do not listen, which he predicted, then they would be diciplined and punished in certain ways to bring them back into line.

Jesus sent His Son to reconcile with the World so all those who believe will be saved and have eternal life.

 

[Rafael]

(Assuming there is a god)
Why did god create us?

Everytime we get out of bed and eat breakfast to start the day we answer the "why" of your question. Obviously God had great purpose in creating man in His image and breathing life into him. Love takes two or more, and again, it is obvious He wanted the more side by then giving man a woman so that they could multiply in number. Could it be He did not want to be alone...?

If god is all knowing then god knew we would sin.
If god is all knowing then god knew 9/11, etc would happen.
If god is all knowing then god is the author of good and evil.
As the song says
"What god wants, god gets.
God help us all".

Yes, God stands outside of time if He so chooses and can see how events workout in our dimension of time, but that does not force His hand and will in creation. Love is not forced or programmed in but is about making a choice. Although God knew that man would fall, He did not intervene and break the chain of events that choice brought about through sin (making a mistake), but He did provide an answer to the problem of sin and death through canceling the debt of sin and death to man through His own sacrifice of love. The problem lies in that most do not understand that true love requires sacrifice and commitment and is not all about self gratification and self gain in power. Love gives, just as God has given us all good things in life and power to overcome the darkness of evil through faith - believing in the evidence of the unseen that surrounds us in creation. Even science shows us that our reality is made up more of the unseen dimension than in the seen.
God granted man self determination and we screwed it up. He knew that we would and had already prepared for that event before the foundations of the world were laid by making the sacrifice of love as His standard that would be raised up above all other things. That man on the cross calls and draws all men to Him that would have back eternal life as family to God. Through the lies of that perfect antithesis and contrast to God's light, the devil, people think life with God will be boring, but in truth, what would be boring about making worlds and possibly universes? What more do we have to know and learn about love in eternity? To open our minds to the possibilities of what lies ahead with life is exciting for me to speculate upon and I wonder how others cannot get excited to see sin and death done away with so that the greater life God has for His people can be known and explored...! He gifts us with life and honors us with His love by suffering death for us - so why are we surprised that He is wrathful towards those that choose sin and death over life?

 

[prophecystudent]

(Assuming there is a god)
Why did god create us?

God created us to fellowship with Him in the Garden of Eden. He loved us so much (even before He created mankind) that He provided a solution to the problem of sin. That solution is our Lord Jesus Christ who died to pay the price required by God for our sins.

GOD DOES NOT HATE MANKIND.

If god is all knowing then god knew we would sin.

Yes, He knew we would sin. Look at it this way. God created Adam and Eve, in the garden, and then established a single question test. That test was that they could eat the fruit of every tree in the Garden with the single exception of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and evil. God told them that if they ate of that tree they would die.

Satan stepped in and convinced them that God was lying and they would not die. They ate of the fruit.

They, and all mankind, since have been paying the price for committing that sin.

God is totally righteous. He established the rules and the penalties. However, because He knew the end result He provided the solution. See above.

If god is all knowing then god knew 9/11, etc would happen.

Yes, He knew. What is your point?


If god is all knowing then god is the author of good and evil.

I am afraid your logic is a little weak in the above statement. The fact that God knows what sinful mankind will do DOES NOT MAKE HIM THE AUTHOR OF EVIL. That evil was started by Satan in the Garden. Not by God. God provided the answer to that evil. Believe in Him and His Son, Jesus Christ.

Being a righteous God, He can only deal with sinful mankind by enforcing His rules. His rules include the answer to all the evil in the world. Man is free to make his own choice. Believe or not. Simple. This is the last test (again a single issue test) for mankind. Those who pass the test (believe in Christ) will spend eternity in a far better place, where there is no evil.

Those who do not believe go to the eternal lake of fire.


As the song says
"What god wants, god gets.
God help us all".

God does help us all, every day in a multitude of ways.

As my mother says, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it".

Fred

 

[Criada]

I knew before I had children, that they would sometimes disobey me! And they do!! But I certainly don't hate them!! I love and forgive them.
I know that they will make wrong choices sometimes. But they have minds of their own, and I will be there to help when they realise that they are wrong. Because I love them!

I am a (very) imperfect human, saved by grace.
If I can love my children this way, how much more an the Creator of the universe love us!!
He does not want us to sin, He does not want us to suffer. But He allows us to make our own decisions!

 

[RMDY]

I knew before I had children, that they would sometimes disobey me! And they do!! But I certainly don't hate them!! I love and forgive them.

Good way to put it.

 

[BigNorsk]

I know that you and others are going to raise objections that attack God.

Does that make me their author?

Marv

 

[Bondman]

Have these good answers helped you, b1ohazard? Or do you have more queries?

Blessings!


- Bondman (ministering the Good News of the Gospel)

_________________​

Hey, WE LOVE PMs (anytime!)​

• Jesus DIED for our sin. • God FORGAVE all our sin. • Then He FORGOT all our sin!​

 

[b1ohazard]

Good way to put it.

It's actually a rather trivial way to put it because Criada is not an all powerful, all knowing god.

 

[b1ohazard]

I know that you and others are going to raise objections that attack God.

Does that make me their author?

Marv

Your post makes no sense at all.

 

[b1ohazard]

Everytime we get out of bed and eat breakfast to start the day we answer the "why" of your question. Obviously God had great purpose in creating man in His image and breathing life into him. Love takes two or more, and again, it is obvious He wanted the more side by then giving man a woman so that they could multiply in number. Could it be He did not want to be alone...?

But god was not alone!!
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image
If god was alone that would read "Let me make man in my image"

Yes, God stands outside of time if He so chooses and can see how events workout in our dimension of time, but that does not force His hand and will in creation. Love is not forced or programmed in but is about making a choice. Although God knew that man would fall, He did not intervene and break the chain of events that choice brought about through sin (making a mistake), but He did provide an answer to the problem of sin and death through canceling the debt of sin and death to man through His own sacrifice of love.

As you said, god knew that man would fall. God created something he knew was 'faulty'. He knowingly created something that was 'faulty'.
I would not write a computer program that I knew was going to fail.

The problem lies in that most do not understand that true love requires sacrifice and commitment and is not all about self gratification and self gain in power. Love gives, just as God has given us all good things in life and power to overcome the darkness of evil through faith - believing in the evidence of the unseen that surrounds us in creation. Even science shows us that our reality is made up more of the unseen dimension than in the seen.

Whose love are you refering to?
You say god has given us the good stuff, but he has also given us the bad stuff. Or do you think that things like earthquakes are a result of original sin?
String theory aside, we have three physical dimensions (which most definitely can be seen) and time (which may or not be a dimension depending on your point of view).

God granted man self determination and we screwed it up.

We screwed it up because god made us that way.
You have to blame the designer rather than the design.

He knew that we would and had already prepared for that event before the foundations of the world were laid

Again, you are just confirming that god knows of all bad things.

by making the sacrifice of love as His standard that would be raised up above all other things. That man on the cross calls and draws all men to Him that would have back eternal life as family to God. Through the lies of that perfect antithesis and contrast to God's light, the devil, people think life with God will be boring, but in truth, what would be boring about making worlds and possibly universes? What more do we have to know and learn about love in eternity? To open our minds to the possibilities of what lies ahead with life is exciting for me to speculate upon and I wonder how others cannot get excited to see sin and death done away with so that the greater life God has for His people can be known and explored...! He gifts us with life and honors us with His love by suffering death for us - so why are we surprised that He is wrathful towards those that choose sin and death over life?

Sorry, but your post degenerated into christo-babble.

 

[salida]

b1ohazard--

God created you so that you could love him and worship him with unconditional love. Unconditional love only comes from God which is through the Holy Spirit. We humans don't have this love as human love only goes so far.
No, God didn't create evil. But he did create free choice which also includes choices against His will. Evil is defined as a transgression against Gods laws.

To proof that God exists intellectually we must first prove the Bible as being credible. Since I don't have enough room in this email to give you these facts I strongly suggest the below reading material as they did the research for us:

If your serious about obtaining more information, I suggest you read, I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Athiest by Normal L. Geisler and Frank Turek. And if you want to learn the overwhelming object facts about the Bible you will want to read Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (these facts will stand up in a court of law). And Examine the Evidence by Muncaster (was an athiest but now a christian).

And if you think "science contradicts faith" guess again: www.reasons.org is very detailed concerning science and faith. A man who has a PhD in Chemistry created this website. I'm a chemist myself.

Its all going to be christian mumble jumble to you because its not understood spiritually my human reasoning. I strongly suggest you find the intellectual reasons first.

If you want to understand the spiritual route first you literally must pray and ask God (Holy Spirit) into your heart and to help your understanding. But unless you think you have a need to do this spiritually your obviously not going to do this. Thus, I suggest the intellectual data first.

We arn't here to be popular and give answers that people want to hear but to tell you what our faith is truly about. If you don't like the answers, that is between you and God not me and you.

 

[Rafael]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafael
Everytime we get out of bed and eat breakfast to start the day we answer the "why" of your question. Obviously God had great purpose in creating man in His image and breathing life into him. Love takes two or more, and again, it is obvious He wanted the more side by then giving man a woman so that they could multiply in number. Could it be He did not want to be alone...?

But god was not alone!!
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image
If god was alone that would read "Let me make man in my image"

God is not limited to the dimensions of His creation in man, but transcends them and is able to be all that He wills.
If God is be each of the three persons revealed in scripture as God, then that is something I accept easily since I have no such powers.

Quote:
Yes, God stands outside of time if He so chooses and can see how events workout in our dimension of time, but that does not force His hand and will in creation. Love is not forced or programmed in but is about making a choice. Although God knew that man would fall, He did not intervene and break the chain of events that choice brought about through sin (making a mistake), but He did provide an answer to the problem of sin and death through canceling the debt of sin and death to man through His own sacrifice of love.

As you said, god knew that man would fall. God created something he knew was 'faulty'. He knowingly created something that was 'faulty'.
I would not write a computer program that I knew was going to fail.

Not faulty, as you would have said, but able to make a full choice including the wrong one.
The program has not ended yet, and God is fully able to resolve it so that the wrong of evil turns out for good to all those that love God and are the called according to His purpose. How does He know these things? Because He has the ability to be interdimensional and displays this power and secrets to eternity all throughout the scripture.

Quote:
The problem lies in that most do not understand that true love requires sacrifice and commitment and is not all about self gratification and self gain in power. Love gives, just as God has given us all good things in life and power to overcome the darkness of evil through faith - believing in the evidence of the unseen that surrounds us in creation. Even science shows us that our reality is made up more of the unseen dimension than in the seen.

Whose love are you refering to?
You say god has given us the good stuff, but he has also given us the bad stuff. Or do you think that things like earthquakes are a result of original sin?
String theory aside, we have three physical dimensions (which most definitely can be seen) and time (which may or not be a dimension depending on your point of view).

Mankind's
The Bible says that the world groans under the weight of sin and death which came in to this world with the fall of man.
As far as the string theory goes, it just does not work well without at least nine or ten dimensions, according to the science articles I've read in Scientific America and other booksand magazines. Also, the Bible mentioned long before man discovered that all things are made of the unseen, and there are more dimensions unseen than seen, if I go just by the recent discoveries made by science in mathematics which is where string theory comes from.


Quote:
God granted man self determination and we screwed it up. Quote:

We screwed it up because god made us that way.
You have to blame the designer rather than the design.

He knew that we would and had already prepared for that event before the foundations of the world were laid
Again, you are just confirming that god knows of all bad things.

Of course He knows and that is why He prepared just as I said and His word confirms. Not only does God know, He does not hide from the fact that He made all things - even the devil. The devil ends up being a tool of God to bring about good to those that love Him, as the scrpture says this in Romans 8:28, as I referred to earlier. Not all Christians are comfortable explaining how God can justify allowing a devil into the garden of Eden with man and women, but He did so with great purpose. Because of the fall of man into sin and death, we have opportunity to have the elevated status of family and of partaking in the divine nature of God even though He is not obligated to give any life at all and could have just ended it. Those who love God and respond to His call need not worry about death and its sting.


Quote:
by making the sacrifice of love as His standard that would be raised up above all other things. That man on the cross calls and draws all men to Him that would have back eternal life as family to God. Through the lies of that perfect antithesis and contrast to God's light, the devil, people think life with God will be boring, but in truth, what would be boring about making worlds and possibly universes? What more do we have to know and learn about love in eternity? To open our minds to the possibilities of what lies ahead with life is exciting for me to speculate upon and I wonder how others cannot get excited to see sin and death done away with so that the greater life God has for His people can be known and explored...! He gifts us with life and honors us with His love by suffering death for us - so why are we surprised that He is wrathful towards those that choose sin and death over life?

Sorry, but your post degenerated into christo-babble.

Yeah, me too. I love God and get a little out of control when speaking about how wonderful I have found it to be knowing Him.
I originally meant to speak of why the devil had to be put in the garden but wandered off a bit. Love requires a choice. Love is never forced upon anyone or it surely cannot be a true love. Just as a masterpiece of art in painting cannot be white upon white, it takes all the colors of the pallet, light and dark, including the absence of light altogether in black which makes the perfect outline that gives definition and revelation. It is used in the dimension of time, presently, but a new heavens and earth are promised where there just may be no time at all.

 

[WeBe1]

b1ohazard, Your argument is as old as time and your lack of faith is also. Please, do not misunderstand me, I’m not attacking you, I’m just saying I have seen your argument performed throughout history. Yes, the words are different, but the questions are the same.

Let me take you into the oldest book of the bible, the book of Job. Now just to give you a little insight of what Job is about, Job was a devout man who had a pure faith in God. His story took place before Moses wrote Genesis.

Job had suffered much evil, much horror and much loss. His friends did not have faith in God, and they pressed Job much like today’s Atheist press Christians. A man by the name of Bildad, a friend of Job even said;

“How then can a man be just with God?
Or how can he be clean who is born of woman?
"If even the moon has no brightness
And the stars are not pure in His sight,
How much less man, that maggot,
And the son of man, that worm!”
~Job 25: 4-6

Job, much like Christians of today rebuked his friend’s reproach. The lack of wisdom that Bildad has came from his personal philosophy, and not of God’s. This is why his wisdom is lacking much like the wisdom that Atheists lack.

Even more, like Job, some of us have the nerve to question God and ask “why did God create us?”

The beauty of it all, God answers Job like He answers us to this day…

Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said,
"Who is this that darkens counsel
By words without knowledge?
"Now gird up your loins like a man,
And I will ask you, and you instruct Me!
"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding,
Who set its measurements? Since you know.
Or who stretched the line on it?
"On what were its bases sunk?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
When the morning stars sang together
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
"Or who enclosed the sea with doors
When, bursting forth, it went out from the womb;
When I made a cloud its garment
And thick darkness its swaddling band,
And I placed boundaries on it
And set a bolt and doors,
And I said, 'Thus far you shall come, but no farther;
And here shall your proud waves stop'?
~Job 38: 1-11
(please read in context Job chapters 38 - 41.)

Job’s response to God…

"I know that You can do all things,
And that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted.
'Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?'
"Therefore I have declared that which I did not understand,
Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know."
~Job 42: 2,3


So now I ask you, does your wisdom exceed that of God’s? God loves us, that is why He gave us life. He created us so that we may glorify Him, as all life is to His glory. I believe from what I read in His Word that He is all knowing, and yet a forever learning God.

 

[Bondman]

Hi again, b1ohazard!

You've been given some great answers here. May I respectfully ask you are you truly seeking answers, or are you wishing to show Christians where they are wrong to make yourself feel more comfortable in not believing in Christianity?

I truly hope it's the former, not the latter. In this case people here will give more help than you could ever wish for to find the TRUTH, and understand God and the spiritual world we Christians live in (which you don't have knowledge of).

Bless you!


- Bondman (ministering the Good News of the Gospel)

_________________​

​

John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, That you love one another;
as I have loved you, that you also love one another.​

 

[Emmy]

Dear b1ohazard. you had some truly good replies, and I can only agree. God knew. that one day we would disobey Him, and follow the Tempter. God knew how far we would move away from His Love, and God knew too, that He would not abandon us, He knew that we would need a Saviour, and God did provide. Jesus reconciled us to God, Jesus told us what to do, and Jesus will lead us back to our original Home with God, and our Christian brothers and sisters. REPENT, to change from selfishness, into loving selflessly, to change from wilfully go our own way, into loving und caring, with hearts and hands, men and women. Jesus told us to become perfect, as God is perfect, and we are are given much time, and help and guidance from Jesus, to be as God always wanted us to be: adopted sons and daughters, living with Him eternally. I say this humbly and with assurance, b1 ohazard. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[Criada]

However, we are not marbles! We are independant beings who don't just roll where we are thrown, but can decide to jump over or break through the borders provided for our wellbeing!
Fortunately, God will always pick us up when we notice that the floor is not a good place to be!

 

[heron]

However, we are not marbles! We are independant beings who don't just roll where we are thrown, but can decide to jump over or break through the borders provided for our wellbeing!

We also have prayer -- the ability to ask God to change the course of events. He expects us to use this privilege!