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If ghosts are real, then they aren’t supernatural

RileyG

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RileyG

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Guess that depends which canons you choose to accept or reject.
Actually, I believe some Oriental Orthodox Churches accept it as canonical, my error. The RCC, Protestant, and EO do not accept Enoch as canonical. It's an interesting perspective, though. Maybe you are right. Some believed the pagan gods were really demons.
 
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RileyG

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as there be gods many, and lords many … But to us there is but one

1 Corinthians 8:5-6
notice the lower case g and small l. Christians have always been monotheistic, and Judaism, by that time, was monotheistic.
 
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RileyG

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RileyG

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Mountainmike

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@Frank Robert
Let’s try conversing on another subject.

if ghosts exist in nature , undetected or not, explained or not, they are by definition natural.
The use of word “supernatural“ is arbitrary and subjective.

Science can do nothing with what it cannot repeat, does not repeat, and it cannot model,
But that’s because science has limited scope - a subset of evidence.

Answer for yourself Frank,
At what point do YOU accept ghosts as existing?
A hundred witnesses? Thousand? million? Professional witnesses?
Million plus ? Or photos?Or Multiple events?
At some point the question is what they are, not whether they are.
Where is that point for you?

The problem is of course “ beings” with free will cannot be relied on showing up “On demand”.
science has a problem with analysing that.
BTW photos before computers are best. much harder to fake before photoshop.
 
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Mountainmike

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You can answer if you existed an hour ago
Off topic… I was pointing at one of the paradoxes that demonstrates that science is happy to postulate the seemingly absurd! Our materiaiistic world has faith in scientism .
 
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Mountainmike

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Spot on for noting the problem.
Reality is the word supernatural is arbitrary and subjective.
if it exists in nature it is natural.

Consider a test case. The neutrino.
In this case it was postulated A in the thirties before evidrnce was found in the sixties.B

What was the status before A or B? Non existent?
If B had happened before A , what was its status between B and A? Supernatural? Or if A never happened?


Analyze this and you realise that supernatural is a purely subjective definition used by materialists to discard what offends their world view.

Reality is before B and A there is simply acceptance that we can’t say what is existent, other than by faith.

If B happens , it is status “postulated, “ not declared natural yet.
If A happens before B something is existent/ natural , but unexplained/ undefined.
But let’s look at what we mean by “ explained” . It just notes it follows the usual pattern.
and at philosophical level dealing with explanation Gravity is not an explanation natural or otherwise since we cannot say what gravity is , or why it is. The actual “cause”
We can only say what it usually does, because it usually obliges the model.
Mostly. Except where it doesnt work as well.

Cells certainly exist. They are natural . We have no idea of how the first one appeared, not where when or how.
Nor can we say how in what stages they evolved . So life is natural but the “ cause” of life is a belief. For everyone.

ghosts are either natural or non existent.
The evidence says natural.
 
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