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the Bible tells us because of Adam we have what is called a sin nature.Because we're sinners. We aren't guilty of Adam's sins, we're guilty of our own.
"Mankind" doesn't sin, you and I do.
Irrelevant.
"Mankind".whoever that is, was never "thrust into sin". Sin is voluntary or it's not sin, and it's individuals who are guilty of it.
No literal talking snake necessary.
if Gen 3 is some sort of abstraction then the crux of the text still shows us that man is fallen and all the products of fallen man still remain the same.
The reason to look at this account as a non-literal account could be for various reasons but a strong one might be that if we assume Moses penned this account through divine authority then this is 2500 years after the fact and that's a long time for an oral account to be preserved without corruption.
Some questions we need to ask are:
What did the post-exodus Hebrew's believe before Moses told them the orthodox account?
Was there competing accounts analogous to the fall of man in surrounding cultures?
Do the post-exodus Hebrews show us a dis-value to truth in favour of false teaching?
Then ask does it matter? If this is a non-literal account then does it affect the main points of the account that man is fallen and needs a redeemer regardless of how it may have actually happened?
The details that make up the account are important but I don't see the surface literal meaning important but rather a greater message being proclaimed in the account. If we are to accept a strict literal account then we should absolutely avoid snakes at all costs because it's just not worth getting caught in their deception again and it shows us that there is a secret garden hidden in the world with the gift of eternal life, but look out its guarded by an angel. These are not productive messages of the account nor are they anything to do with the point of it but a strict literal interpretation demands it.
Should I strike the verses out of Romans, 1 Corinthians and Acts?
You said ""Death reigned from Adam to Moses", referring to them both as real people who lived at a particular point in history."Both Jesus and Paul treated Genesis as a literal account of the events. To them, Adam was a real person. Paul says that, "Death reigned from Adam to Moses", referring to them both as real people who lived at a particular point in history. Paul also says that Eve was deceived, but Adam wasn't, so according to him, Eve was a real person in history as well.
There are many unassailable proofs that the Bible is literally true, so if it is true in other areas, then Genesis is a true historical record as well.
Why would the God inspired author present something that wasn't true?... of course not, but you may want to consider the social and cultural contexts in which they were written. It's not like Paul was writing those works in a Holy Spirit Vacuum ...
Why would the God inspired author present something that wasn't true?
Directly, God wouldn't inspire 'untruth,' but since God left the physical and cultural accidentals of thought, concepts, and language up to the writers, He wasn't inspiring them to drop-kick a science or history textbook into the grasp of humanity, and He wasn't dropping the bible out of heaven and into the skulls of His Prophets and Apostles. No. What we have are essential ideas that allow us to recognize how to reconcile with God, not how to fully understand the past or to do science with our physical world.
Some of us Christians need to stop thinking of Inspired Scripture as a comprehensive manual for humanity and see it instead as what it is and what it has (only) been intended to be ... a message of 'Good News' for reconciling with God through Christ by the power of His Spirit.
because if it is a non-literal account then that information is not given nor is it important. It's good enough for me to know I am in a sinful state and I need Christ.You can present why you don't think it's literal BUT, you failed to answer where this sin came from if evolution is true.
Fine.because if it is a non-literal account then that information is not given nor is it important. It's good enough for me to know I am in a sinful state and I need Christ.
What you consider as past history was deposited in a biblical event called a world wide flood.
God used Paul and other biblical authors to present the truth. You severely distort the truth when you filter the Bible through mans false science called evolution.
The story of the direct creation of man and the literal fall in the garden is the truth of God - substantiated as it is in the New Testament as well as the old. It is not a metaphor.If Genesis 3 is a metaphor
The same books all from the same God. That's why. All written by mosses or about mosses.
the pre-Abrahamic accounts of Genesis would be written aprox 1000-2500 years after they took place and major accounts like the creation, flood and separation of languages would have many competing accounts from surrounding cultures, especially those who are more advanced.
Whereas the Abrahamic accounts themselves would be a lot closer to the time they were written and have no competing accounts because Abraham's story is uniquely for the Hebrew's and no one else so their high value of preserving their detail is far more likely. Also, the Abrahamic accounts are far more detailed than the pre-Abrahamic accounts which also suggests more accurate information.
What we have is post-exodus Hebrews with very little detail about God and a propensity to surrender to pagan ways as evident in many accounts. They were quick to complaining and lacked trust in their direction as a people and their leader, also evident in many accounts. This points to pre-Moses Hebrews were probably unorganized in leadership, had a poor understanding of God, had no to very little systems of official faith and probably were saturated in pagan ways or some sort of hybrid folk faith. and what do you expect with no guidance and left to their ways for hundreds of years?
Moses had a task to unite the people, start a monotheistic system of faith and orthodox beliefs, and cleanse pagan elements from the Hebrews, an entire generation had to die off to prepare the Hebrews to go the promise land so this points to very deep seated values systems that were counter-God.
This in no way disvalues literal accounts from the rest of the Bible. it just looks at the early Genesis accounts far removed from the time they were written with a greater focus than surface literal details, such as to de-paganize the post-exodus Hebrews and points to the one true God, creator and sustainer of all things.
Should I strike the verses out of Romans, 1 Corinthians and Acts?
Your problem is that the Bible tells us why we are in that state. But, you disregard it when you filter your bible through evolutionism....which then leaves you with no answer.
If Genesis 3 is a metaphor, parable, myth...what ever, then what really happen?
If there was no Garden, no real Adam, no Eve created from Adams side, no serpent, no tree of knowledge of good and evil and no fall Can the Theo-Evo's tell us why we are sinners in need of a savior?
When did mankind sin? What stage of evolution?
Why does mankind sin?
How was mankind thrust into sin in need of a savior?
If I may butt in, all we need to know is that the Old Testament tells us to love God and seek justice.
The New Testament tells us to follow Jesus and his primary commandment, "Love on another as I have loved you."
Everything else seems to be fodder for argumentation. very few Christians can agree on much else. But it is easier to argue than to love.
You seem to think I have an evolution agenda and am forcing it to fit in scripture, well I don't and such an agenda would be irresponsible. I just happen to have a lot of experience with cultures from around the word, eastern philosophies and have studied ancient cultures and their mythologies. So when I read these accounts and pair them with their context surrounding there authorship I recognize them quite acutely. But just because I think the early Genesis accounts are not literal accounts doesn't mean I subscribe to evolution. I'm in fact agnostic to what actually happened.Fine.
That's all you really need to know.
Your problem is that the Bible tells us why we are in that state. But, you disregard it when you filter your bible through evolutionism....which then leaves you with no answer.
If someone loves the God of the Bible, then why discount so much of his word?
How are we following JESUS THE WORD MADE FLESH, when we say the foundation of the word is a fake story that didn't really happen?
Is it really loving to sow doubt in the plain reading of scripture? Why should people even believe in sin? or God's judgment, or heaven, etc. Is it all just allegorical story-telling to make us feel good?
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