If Evolution were true...

Lion Hearted Man · Jun 13, 2011

Inan3 said:
Well...if evolution doesn't have to take thousands or millions of years I suppose then that everything could have been created after their own kind about 6-10 thousand years ago and evolved into what we have today and the only COMMON descent would be God.

No, this is incorrect. What Nathan meant is that evolution is a matter of generations, not necessarily an amount of time. Insects have a very fast turn-over rate, and reproduce quickly enough that you can see changes rather quickly. Higher animals like us, other mammals, etc. live longer so it takes much longer to see changes because it takes longer to see a new generation. So it would necessarily take much longer to see changes in animals.

So when we look at evidence for evolution and speciation, the experiments are done with insects and plants because they can reproduce faster. If you do experiments with higher animals and speciation, it may take much longer than your lifetime to see results.

Greg1234 · Jun 13, 2011

Nathan Poe said:
Everything? Or could it be that while everything evolves, they do so at different rates?

Everything could have created 6-10 thousand years ago... out of strawberry custard by a giant superintelligent English Sheepdog named "Bosko." Why not worship that?

Because strawberry custard would be derived from a created organism and a sheepdog is created. Hence the allusion stands as a representation (like the flying spaghetti monster) of the first cause and the worship of 'Bosko" is redundant.

Nathan Poe · Jun 13, 2011

Greg1234 said:
Because strawberry custard would be derived from a created organism and a sheepdog is created. Hence the allusion stands as a representation (like the flying spaghetti monster) of the first cause and the worship of 'Bosko" is redundant.

And an anthropomorphic deity isn't created?

Greg1234 · Jun 13, 2011

Nathan Poe said:
And an anthropomorphic deity isn't created?

Is a conventional speaking microphone?

Nabobalis · Jun 13, 2011

Nathan Poe said:
Everything? Or could it be that while everything evolves, they do so at different rates?

Everything could have created 6-10 thousand years ago... out of strawberry custard by a giant superintelligent English Sheepdog named "Bosko." Why not worship that?

Now that would be a really cute god.

Awesome_Frog · Jun 13, 2011

Inan3 said:
Well...if evolution doesn't have to take thousands or millions of years I suppose then that everything could have been created after their own kind about 6-10 thousand years ago and evolved into what we have today and the only COMMON descent would be God.

Evolution of a population dosen't take thousands of years. What has taken thousands of years, is the current playing field we have right now.

You can believe a God or any kind of designer was involved, but it won't convince others unless you can back your statement up with verifiable evidence.

Especially since the word "kind" dosen't have an actual defintion that we can actually use to work with.

Awesome_Frog · Jun 13, 2011

Greg1234 said:
Is a conventional speaking microphone?

Both are created. The Diety based on what people prescribe to it, and the microphone through Ohm's law and engineering.

Greg1234 · Jun 13, 2011

Awesome_Frog said:
Both are created. The Diety based on what people prescribe to it, and the microphone through Ohm's law and engineering.

A conventional microphone doesn't speak.

sandwiches · Jun 13, 2011

Greg1234 said:
A conventional microphone doesn't speak.

All gods are created.

VehementiDominus · Jun 13, 2011

Greg1234 said:
A conventional microphone doesn't speak.

It does if you plug it in where the speaker should go.

At least, mine does.

knowledgeIsPower · Jun 13, 2011

Greg1234 said:
A conventional microphone doesn't speak.

Neither does God.

I know people hear voices or get feelings and think it is God talking to them but we have pills for that now.

AV1611VET · Jun 13, 2011

knowledgeIsPower said:
I know people hear voices or get feelings and think it is God talking to them but we have pills for that now.

You mean wards?

An atheist psychiatrist will have you committed for "observation", until a Christian psychiatrist gets his orders rescinded.

Greg1234 · Jun 13, 2011

VehementiDominus said:
At least, mine does.

Don't bother, chief. K?

knowledgeIsPower · Jun 13, 2011

AV1611VET said:
You mean wards?

An atheist psychiatrist will have you committed for "observation", until a Christian psychiatrist gets his orders rescinded.

Sometimes wards are required but pills are often enough.

No the Christian psychiatrist is going to see the same abnormalities the atheist is going to see. The deciding factor there is not their belief systems but their specialisation as psychiatrists. They both recognise delusion when they see it. If a doctor allows his/her belief system to influence their diagnosis as a medical practitioner then he/she needs to lose his/her right to practice medicine.

AV1611VET · Jun 13, 2011

knowledgeIsPower said:
Sometimes wards are required but pills are often enough.

Then you must be talking over-the-counter pills; therefore, I'll take your point you made about them with an mcg of clozapine.

knowledgeIsPower · Jun 13, 2011

AV1611VET said:
Then you must be talking over-the-counter pills

This comment makes no sense. Over-the-counter stuff is less potent than the psychoactive stuff psychiatrists prescribe and none of it is going to stop voices. I have met many individuals for which pills were enough and no ward confinement was required except for during the initial break.That and where did you get the idea that I'm taking the pills?

therefore, I'll take your point you made about them with an mcg of clozapine.

You'd need far more than a single microgram actually. Probably more like 10mg.

In the future if you're going to try to be clever maybe read through it once more to make sure the comment actually makes some sort of sense.

AV1611VET · Jun 13, 2011

knowledgeIsPower said:
In the future if you're going to try to be clever maybe read through it once more to make sure the comment actually makes some sort of sense.

Then let me be frank.

I get feelings and think it is God talking to me.

If you 'have a pill for that', as you say you have, then I submit that is a form of persecution.

And if you are in the profession, as you seem to be coming across, you should know that pills would come after a diagnosis is made.

Your unprofessional statement should have read:

We have ways of diagnosing those who claim they get feelings and think God is talking to them.

And for the record, Christian psychiatrists have ways of making sure atheist psychiatrists don't get a chance to diagnose someone against his will.

(And if you think it's not done against his will, then you don't live around here.)

Inan3 · Jun 13, 2011

knowledgeIsPower said:
Neither does God.

I know people hear voices or get feelings and think it is God talking to them but we have pills for that now.

I'm sure you do... anything to try to stop the "God" problem... won't happen, though. God still talks and people still hear. It is the sane ones that really hear God. Millions of people on the earth hear God. It's a dilemma (for you) and you'll never be able to stop it.

knowledgeIsPower · Jun 13, 2011

AV1611VET said:
Then let me be frank.

I get feelings and think it is God talking to me.

If you 'have a pill for that', as you say you have, then I submit that is a form of persecution.

How is giving someone medication for a neurological disorder "persecution"?

Worse actually. How is the mere existence of medication for a neurological condition persecution? EXTRA

And if you are in the profession, as you seem to be coming across, you should know that pills would come after a diagnosis is made.

Of course pills come after a diagnosis is made. I never said they didn't.

Your unprofessional statement should have read:

We have ways of diagnosing those who claim they get feelings and think God is talking to them.

Not really no.

And for the record, Christian psychiatrists have ways of making sure atheist psychiatrists don't get a chance to diagnose someone against his will.

No they don't.

(And if you think it's not done against his will, then you don't live around here.)

Often those with neurological disorders of some sort or another are treated against their will. That is because they aren't in their right mind and cannot decide for themselves.

Inan3 · Jun 13, 2011

sandwiches said:
All gods are created.

That's right "little g" gods. This is what God "big G" thinks about them and those who bow down to them.

Isa 44:6 The LORD, who rules and protects Israel, the LORD Almighty, has this to say: "I am the first, the last, the only God; there is no other god but me.
Isa 44:7 Could anyone else have done what I did? Who could have predicted all that would happen from the very beginning to the end of time?
Isa 44:8 Do not be afraid, my people! You know that from ancient times until now I have predicted all that would happen, and you are my witnesses. Is there any other god? Is there some powerful god I never heard of ?"
Isa 44:9 All those who make idols are worthless, and the gods they prize so highly are useless. Those who worship these gods are blind and ignorant---and they will be disgraced.
Isa 44:10 It does no good to make a metal image to worship as a god!
Isa 44:11 Everyone who worships it will be humiliated. The people who make idols are human beings and nothing more. Let them come and stand trial---they will be terrified and will suffer disgrace.
Isa 44:12 The metalworker takes a piece of metal and works with it over a fire. His strong arm swings a hammer to pound the metal into shape. As he works, he gets hungry, thirsty, and tired.
Isa 44:13 The carpenter measures the wood. He outlines a figure with chalk, carves it out with his tools, and makes it in the form of a man, a handsome human figure, to be placed in his house.
Isa 44:14 He might cut down cedars to use, or choose oak or cypress wood from the forest. Or he might plant a laurel tree and wait for the rain to make it grow.
Isa 44:15 A person uses part of a tree for fuel and part of it for making an idol. With one part he builds a fire to warm himself and bake bread; with the other part he makes a god and worships it.
Isa 44:16 With some of the wood he makes a fire; he roasts meat, eats it, and is satisfied. He warms himself and says, "How nice and warm! What a beautiful fire!"
Isa 44:17 The rest of the wood he makes into an idol, and then he bows down and worships it. He prays to it and says, "You are my god---save me!"
Isa 44:18 Such people are too stupid to know what they are doing. They close their eyes and their minds to the truth.
Isa 44:19 The maker of idols hasn't the wit or the sense to say, "Some of the wood I burned up. I baked some bread on the coals, and I roasted meat and ate it. And the rest of the wood I made into an idol. Here I am bowing down to a block of wood!"
Isa 44:20 It makes as much sense as eating ashes. His foolish ideas have so misled him that he is beyond help. He won't admit to himself that the idol he holds in his hand is not a god at all.

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