• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

If Evolution were true...

Status
Not open for further replies.

Greg1234

In the beginning was El
May 14, 2010
3,745
38
✟19,292.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The adaptation was addressed in the article.
The evidence clearly supports evolution no evidence of anything else.

This will enable you to better understand these advancements being referenced in Creation articles.

01/07/30 - ICBP 2000

McClintock recognized that genetic change is a cellular process, subject to regulation, and is not dependent on stochastic accidents. The idea of internally-generated, biologically regulated mutation has profound impacts for thinking about the process of evolution. Darwin himself acknowledged this point in later editions of Origin of Species, where he wrote about natural "sports" or "...variations which seem to us in our ignorance to arise spontaneously. It appears that I formerly underrated the frequency and value of these latter forms of variation, as leading to permanent modifications of structure independently of natural selection." (6th edition, Chapter XV, p. 395).​
 
Upvote 0

rjc34

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2011
1,382
16
✟1,769.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Others

Common descent is one of the core concepts in evolutionary theory. Nothing else makes sense in evolution without it. And regarding the old earth, that's pretty much done and done. Every single branch of science that has any opinion on the matter comes to exactly the same conclusion: the Earth is about 4.54 billion years old.


Common descent is no longer just hypothesized, it's a full blown theory in and of itself, and it's one of the bigger chunks in the whole pie that is evolutionary theory. We've observed speciation events more than a few times (dozens if not hundreds of documented events). As I said above, the billions of years thing is pretty much done and done. There's really no debate that the earth is billions of years old. Sure, the number might fluctuate a bit, but 4.54 is the most accurate date we have with the evidence that exists.

Now I know you accept the Bible on faith; but when the evidence is so overwhelming for a better explanation, perhaps it's time to rethink your position on a literal and inerrant Bible.



Man and animals aren't 6-10 thousand years old. There is astoundingly overwhelming evidence to the contrary. So ether you just haven't taken the time to look at the evidence, or you have and choose to remain purposefully ignorant of it in order to support your faith.
 
Upvote 0

OllieFranz

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2007
5,328
351
✟31,048.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private


I'm confused. What are you trying to show me here?

Full paper or does it not work?

When I followed that link, I got a notice that I should register.

Which is why Orogeny linked to the (publically available) abstract in the first place, mentioning that the full text required registration.
 
Upvote 0

WretchedMan

Ambassador for Jesus Christ
Apr 1, 2010
264
10
Arkansas, USA
✟22,946.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single

What is the strawman here?

We are still in the infancy of understanding these things. They have found that a great many of the previously assumed to be non-functioning regions of our DNA actually do serve a purpose. The way things have been going, it is likely that as our understanding grows, we will find the others do as well.

There is no reason at this stage to assume that these sections are there as a result of a common ancestor. If they have a function, it is completely consistent with a common designer.

While at this point, where what we don't know about ERVs far outweighs what we do know , this is an interesting argument for your position, but this does nothing to validate Naturalism and it is not a knockdown argument for universal common descent.
 
Upvote 0

WretchedMan

Ambassador for Jesus Christ
Apr 1, 2010
264
10
Arkansas, USA
✟22,946.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The Miller-Urey experiment was useful in showing us that organic compounds, including amino acids can be created from inorganic compounds.

It was already known that you could create organic compounds from inorganic (Wöhler’s urea synthesis in 1828). The issue wasn't whether or not we could apply knowledge of chemistry to synthesize organic compounds. The issue was whether those compounds could form and combine to make a simple life form in the hypothesized conditions of the earth without any intelligent direction.

It's more evidence than there is for a creator, that's for sure. If you have a good lead on where science might find the creator, then by all means, please divulge this information.

Evidence for design is evidence for the Creator and, as I said before, science is only one limited aspect of knowledge.

Good job finally getting it. You've been told the same thing by everyone in this thread. Did it finally sink in?

Seeing that this is something I have been pointing out and is foundational to my arguments, I don't see the point of your comment. Maybe you're mixing me up with someone else.
 
Upvote 0

Lion Hearted Man

Eternal Newbie
Dec 11, 2010
2,805
107
Visit site
✟26,179.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Engaged

What the scientific community knows about ERVs far outweighs what you or your creationist buddies know. ERVs are by definition exogenous pieces of genetic material that have inserted themselves into the genome. It is entirely possible that the information ERVs bring with them affects the proteome of the organism (that's actually how we discovered oncogenes -- viruses entering cells with pro-division proteins). It's not the function of ERVs, it's the pattern that's important. We know that ERVs are remnants of viruses that inserted themselves into the genome. The pattern of insertion is what is important.

The same principle is applied to SNPs, which are single-nucleotide polymorphisms in human genomes. These are endogenous pieces of genetic information. We use them for paternity testing, and they are also used as evidence of common ancestry.
 
Upvote 0

WretchedMan

Ambassador for Jesus Christ
Apr 1, 2010
264
10
Arkansas, USA
✟22,946.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single

I was pointing out that those who agree with universal common descent and believe in some sort of naturalistic explanation for the origin of life have said that the makeup of the atmosphere in the Miller/Urey experiment doesn't match what is thought as possible for an early atmosphere on the earth.

The point had nothing to do with my position.
 
Upvote 0

WretchedMan

Ambassador for Jesus Christ
Apr 1, 2010
264
10
Arkansas, USA
✟22,946.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single

In terms of demonstrating that life could have arisen through naturalistic means on the earth, Miller/Urey was complete bunk. Organic molecules are not life and there is no known mechanism that will take the building blocks and actually build life.

If there are successful experiments that have demonstrated what Miller/Urey failed to do, why is Miller/Urey all that I ever see brought up?

There are plenty of reasons to think that life did not originate through naturalistic mechanisms, unless you are dismissing the possibility out of hand.

I do not have a problem with investigating whether or not life can arise naturally by unguided processes. I have a problem with the idea that it did being presented as if it is a foregone conclusion.

The sentence made perfect sense. Assuming that life arose through processes consistent with Naturalism is not a scientific claim. It is a philosophical claim.
 
Upvote 0

WretchedMan

Ambassador for Jesus Christ
Apr 1, 2010
264
10
Arkansas, USA
✟22,946.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single

I've spent enough time in fruitless discussion with you. I think your idea would be best, so I will go ahead and put this to bed.
 
Upvote 0

Lion Hearted Man

Eternal Newbie
Dec 11, 2010
2,805
107
Visit site
✟26,179.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Engaged
I've spent enough time in fruitless discussion with you. I think your idea would be best, so I will go ahead and put this to bed.

Hey man, it's not my fault you have no training in science. We simply don't speak the same language.
 
Upvote 0

Inan3

Veteran Saint
Jul 22, 2007
3,376
88
West of the Mississippi
✟27,875.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican

And blah, blah, blah!!
 
Upvote 0

Skaloop

Agnostic atheist, pro-choice anti-abortion
May 10, 2006
16,332
899
48
Burnaby
Visit site
✟36,546.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-NDP
Inan3 said:
And blah, blah, blah!!

Well, that's it; you've convinced me. Oh, no you haven't. You've done nothing. You haven't even attempted to rebut the fact-based argument. Obviously it's because you can't, but I kinda expected you to at least make an attempt.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.