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I had to laugh, only because Jesus can be wherever he wants to be, at the same time, I guess (?). Afterall He is with the Father, with us, and whereevr two or more are gathered. Heaven itself is a bit difficult to get a radar fix on also... and God is both here and there at the same time, so...Wouldn't Jesus be in heaven as Scripture says?
I have seen this quoted ascribed to Calvin in multiple places. I have never, however, seen anyone cite a source--indeed, a search online turns up websites saying they haven't been able to find it. Do you know where he said it?"Some, who believe in God's sovereign election of the "few," also believe that non-elect babies who die will spend eternity suffering in hell. John Calvin said, "there are babies a span long in hell."
I suppose so, but we know that he is described as having ascended to the Father to be seated on his right hand while there is NO mention of him being the host in Abraham's Bosom.I had to laugh, only because Jesus can be wherever he wants to be, at the same time, I guess (?).
But the point is that "where the dead are" refers to where the dead were when Jesus (and those of the time) were speaking of it. It ceased to have a purpose after Christ's sacrifice, and so it is commonly said that Abraham's Bosom is now vacant, although perhaps ti would be better to say that it no longer exists.I meant Abrahams bosom the same way Jesus (and those of the time) did, it seems to have just been a 'common vernacular' for 'where the dead are' (with the good on one side of the other I suppose).
But the point is that "where the dead are" refers to where the dead were when Jesus (and those of the time) were speaking of it. It ceased to have a purpose after Christ's sacrifice, and so it is commonly said that Abraham's Bosom is now vacant, although perhaps ti would be better to say that it no longer exists.
I meant Abrahams bosom the same way Jesus (and those of the time) did, it seems to have just been a 'common vernacular' for 'where the dead are' (with the good on one side of the other I suppose). i dont believe there is 'a place' somewhere with a vacancy sign on the door. The dead are with Jesus (and I would believe Abraham is there too).
No matter what 'word' scripture, or tradition, uses to 'describe' heaven, hell, or any place that is 'out of this world' remember all this can only be 'described with symbolic illustrations'. Even going 'up or down' has to be understood as an attempt to explain something otherworldly - and not to be constrained by thinking simply in the physical literal sense - as some fundamentalism thinking goes...
... so I do not know what point there is arguing whether they moved left or right, up or down, or at all, the point is that the dead are with Christ, I think we can agree on that... right
I think God will tell people you should no better that I'd never do something like that seeing I've revealed my nature as being good, kind and gracious. Some might ask then why didn't he spell that out. I think sometimes it's an insult to the intelligence God gave one to even have to do that thus you won't always see something spoke of, or to say it another way I think God will say it should have been self evident to all I'd never do something like that. What's self evident God doesn't play silly games by choosing to entertain the question. The silence on the issue should tell one God is saying Think about what your suggesting.....having done so you should come to the conclusion there was no need to ask the question.Hell is eturnal separation from God. A fate that Jesus came to save believers from.
But what evidence do you have that children/intfants etc go to heaven?
The bible is silent on this subject.
All we really know for sure is that the Judge of the whole Earth will do that which is right.
If endless punishment were true & victims of infanticide all go to heaven, then infanticide saves infants from any chance of growing up & going to endless torments or annihilation....
Bible tells eternal life is for righteous. I can’t tell who are really righteous, therefore I don’t recommend to murder anyone, especially because it is against God’s commandments.
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23
This sounds like universalism, which is a false doctrine.If endless punishment were true & victims of infanticide all go to heaven, then infanticide saves infants from any chance of growing up & going to endless torments or annihilation.
Should a loving parent, therefore, kill their infants before they reach an age at which God would hold them accountable?
"Evangelicals are divided in their opinion about the fate of infants who die.
"Some, who believe in God's sovereign election of the "few," also believe that non-elect babies who die will spend eternity suffering in hell. John Calvin said, "there are babies a span long in hell."
"Others consider this unfair, and assert that infants who die will spend eternity in heavenly bliss. This of course is true, but not because the child is innocent. It's true because the Scriptures teach that God intends to save everyone from everything that they need to be saved from.
"A few years ago there was a story in a Montreal paper about an Ohio lady who drowned her baby in a bathtub. Her defense was that she loved the baby so much that she wanted to make sure that her child would not have to suffer forever in hell. After serving a sentence she remarried, had another child and drowned it for the same reason. She trusted that God would forgive her because her intention, though warped by false theology, was for the good of her children.
"The jury decided that she was mentally ill, BUT WAS SHE? The simple pragmatic fact remains that if Arminianism is right, her two infants will spend eternity in heavenly bliss because she loved them so much that she insured, by killing them, that this will be so.
"Apparently, many Christians believe that there is a magical split-second in time before which a child, if they die, will go to heaven, and after which, if they die will spend eternity suffering in hell. They call this the "age of accountability."
"If I believed this nonsense I would take a gun into the largest maternity ward in Toronto and, before the police arrived, kill every infant who had just been born. This would cause an enormous amount of suffering to the parents, but this wouldn't matter much in the long run, because probably most of them (according to evangelical theology) are destined to suffer forever in hell anyway, so why not save their babies from the same fate?
"Don't try to argue that what I would be doing would be wrong ("thou shalt not kill"). The fact remains that my act would, in fact insure the eternal salvation of the babies. If Arminianism is right, then infanticide would certainly be one of the most effective ways of "saving souls." Besides, God forgives murder, especially when it is done for such a noble, though misguided cause. Sure, they would lock me away in an institution, but I would spend my life revelling in the glow of the emotional high of knowing that I had, beyond any shadow of a doubt guaranteed the salvation of the babies that I had killed.
"Folks, the actual truth about the matter is much more sane and blessed. The Scriptures teach that salvation is all of the Lord, and He will not fail to save every one of us according to His own timing. No one will be able to boast in His presence and say, "I have saved myself from eternal hell by exercising my faith in God's provision. God will get all of the glory for everyone's salvation.
"The important issue never should be "what is right or what is wrong." The only really important issue is, "What is God going to do with the person who is wrong?" The Scriptures teach that God will fit every one of us into His master plan in a positive way, and He will use our temporary involvement with sin to teach us the lessons that He wants us to learn. As my Dad often says, "That's what makes Him God!" "
Can Children Go to Hell?
The non-elect don't go to heaven, no matter what their age. Anyone who is elect will live long enough to be saved, even if it's in the womb, as it was in the rare case of John the baptizer.
Universalism is a heresy.
I think God will tell people you should no better that I'd never do something like that seeing I've revealed my nature as being good, kind and gracious. Some might ask then why didn't he spell that out. I think sometimes it's an insult to the intelligence God gave one to even have to do that thus you won't always see something spoke of, or to say it another way I think God will say it should have been self evident to all I'd never do something like that. What's self evident God doesn't play silly games by choosing to entertain the question. The silence on the issue should tell one God is saying Think about what your suggesting.....having done so you should come to the conclusion there was no need to ask the question.
No, I am not.Are you a Calvinist?
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