Idolatry---I meant no offense. I just have differing opinions.

[Lik3]

Are there more atheist than ever before, or, it is not the different number, but an atheist would have it easier to express his or her views? Also, is a godless now that we have many problems many people can deal with. Unfortunately, many of us are listening to false teachings therefore, having itching ears. Could the lies and half-truths could be what driving without the Lord, especially black people? I mean no harm, would atheism be a sin to the Lord. How ever, a lot of people who claim to be believers practice idolatry?

Exodus 32:2-9 "
2 Aaron answered them, “Take off the gold earrings that your wives, your sons and your daughters are wearing, and bring them to me.” 3 So all the people took off their earrings and brought them to Aaron. 4 He took what they handed him and made it into an idol cast in the shape of a calf, fashioning it with a tool. Then they said, “These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.”

5 When Aaron saw this, he built an altar in front of the calf and announced, “Tomorrow there will be a festival to the Lord.” 6 So the next day the people rose early and sacrificed burnt offerings and presented fellowship offerings. Afterward they sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry.

7 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt. 8 They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, ‘These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.’ "

9 “I have seen these people,” the Lord said to Moses, “and they are a stiff-necked people. 10 Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation.”

Exodus 20:1-7
"20 And God spoke all these words:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name."

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

No, there has always been Atheists.

Notably in the Ancient world we had the Epicureans, who were atomic realists. They largely held God/s did not exist or were uninterested in us and that the soul didn't exist or ceased at death.

We see notably figures like Frederick II, Stupor Mundi, in the Middle Ages. Most notably in his Melfi Constitutions, he derives right from natural law instead of from God.
Notably Hrafnkell in the Icelandic Saga becomes an Atheist and denies any gods exist.

The Renaissance and Age of Enlightenment saw many Atheists like Dolet, Vanini and the author of Theophrastus Redividus. Although atheist was a term of opprobium at this stage.

Etc.

What happens in the modern world is that many call themselves Atheist, when they really mean Agnostic or Deist. They think that atheism is scientific, when actually only Agnosticism is.
There is also a certain intellectual cachet to it, as if it somehow makes you smarter.
The term Atheist has become a Idol upon whose golden horns people can hang whichever definition they wish.

 

[Resha Caner]

The term Atheist has become a Idol upon whose golden horns people can hang whichever definition they wish.

A nicely poetic phrase that matches my experience. Atheists are as varied in their views as they accuse Christians of being. I've never understood the atheist argument that if God exists, then the views of Christians should be much more uniform.

I think that idea comes from their frequent belief that science is a means for discovering truth, and thereby that scientists are uniform in their positions.

 

[delaD3]

Are there more atheist than ever before, or, it is not the different number, but an atheist would have it easier to express his or her views? Also, is a godless now that we have many problems many people can deal with. Unfortunately, many of us are listening to false teachings therefore, having itching ears. Could the lies and half-truths could be what driving without the Lord, especially black people? I mean no harm, would atheism be a sin to the Lord. How ever, a lot of people who claim to be believers practice idolatry?

Exodus 32:2-9 "
2 Aaron answered them, “Take off the gold earrings that your wives, your sons and your daughters are wearing, and bring them to me.” 3 So all the people took off their earrings and brought them to Aaron. 4 He took what they handed him and made it into an idol cast in the shape of a calf, fashioning it with a tool. Then they said, “These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.”

5 When Aaron saw this, he built an altar in front of the calf and announced, “Tomorrow there will be a festival to the Lord.” 6 So the next day the people rose early and sacrificed burnt offerings and presented fellowship offerings. Afterward they sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry.

7 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt. 8 They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, ‘These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.’ "

9 “I have seen these people,” the Lord said to Moses, “and they are a stiff-necked people. 10 Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation.”

Exodus 20:1-7
"20 And God spoke all these words:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name."

When you say 'atheists', are you referring to world wide atheism or just localized atheism?

 

[Ken Behrens]

You have to study things out to be an atheist. It requires going against the grain. We have more atheists today because we have more free time, and internet, to read and to think. But the upshot is, I think that there are very few voices teaching the true message of God and Jesus out there, and a lot of false ones. I think a lot of people have been hurt, and I think that is way many become atheists. They are not rejecting God, so much as rejecting the God of "so and so" church or teacher. From a lot of what I see, I think a lot of atheists will meet the real Jesus, and I think they will be back in a generation or so, but in a different form from what we now know as Christianity.

 

[RDKirk]

A nicely poetic phrase that matches my experience. Atheists are as varied in their views as they accuse Christians of being. I've never understood the atheist argument that if God exists, then the views of Christians should be much more uniform.

I think that idea comes from their frequent belief that science is a means for discovering truth, and thereby that scientists are uniform in their positions.

Scientists (that is, those who are actually doing research) are only barely more uniform in their details than clergy are. Scientists tend to take the same bent as clergy:

"If I thought what you are teaching is more correct than what I'm teaching, I'd stop teaching what I'm teaching and start teaching what you're teaching."

 

[delaD3]

Scientists (that is, those who are actually doing research) are only barely more uniform in their details than clergy are. Scientists tend to take the same bent as clergy:

"If I thought what you are teaching is more correct than what I'm teaching, I'd stop teaching what I'm teaching and start teaching what you're teaching."

James 3:1
"Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more severely than others." ISV

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I've never understood the atheist argument that if God exists, then the views of Christians should be much more uniform.

It is very much like ghandi said --- something like he believed in the Christ of Scripture, he just did not believe in christendom that did not act like HIM.

 

[Resha Caner]

It is very much like ghandi said --- something like he believed in the Christ of Scripture, he just did not believe in christendom that did not act like HIM.

That was a risky thing for Ghandi to say, for then one can ask how many Indians act like Ghandi.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

That was a risky thing for Ghandi to say, for then one can ask how many Indians act like Ghandi.

No worries. It was just an observation that multitudes have made (including many Jews over the last 2000 years);
and
verified by YHWH'S WORD (not conflicted or contradicted by).

 

[RDKirk]

No worries. It was just an observation that multitudes have made (including many Jews over the last 2000 years);
and
verified by YHWH'S WORD (not conflicted or contradicted by).

As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you." -- Romans 2

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you." -- Romans 2

That's not what ghandi or the other witnesses were talking about --- see the context of your quote:
The Jews and the Law
17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God; 18 if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of little children, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”b]">[b]

(your quote) is[apparently] about the Jews described ^^,
not about the ones ghandi and the other witnesses have seen.

 

[RDKirk]

That's not what ghandi or the other witnesses were talking about --- see the context of your quote:
The Jews and the Law
17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God; 18 if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of little children, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”b]">[b]

(your quote) is[apparently] about the Jews described ^^,
not about the ones ghandi and the other witnesses have seen.

That describes perfectly the Christians Ghandi and others have seen.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No, not likely. He and others saw and observed mostly the worldwide network,
some Jews, but not many.

That describes perfectly the Christians Ghandi and others have seen.

 

[RDKirk]

No, not likely. He and others saw and observed mostly the worldwide network,
some Jews, but not many.

Why are you responding to me about Ghandi seeing Jews when I'm clearly talking--and Ghandi was clearly talking--about seeing Christians?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"Christians practicing idolatry" not the Jews or those calling themselves Jews in Romans 2 is the topic.

Why are you responding to me about Ghandi seeing Jews when I'm clearly talking--and Ghandi was clearly talking--about seeing Christians?

The excerpt you pulled out was a mis-quote when applied to this topic of who ghandi and others referred to...
>>

As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you." -- Romans 2

refers specifically to Jews or those who call themselves Jews as clearly stated in the verse(s) preceding the excerpt:

"17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God;.....God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you. -- Romans 2"

 

[masmpg]

You have to study things out to be an atheist. It requires going against the grain. We have more atheists today because we have more free time, and internet, to read and to think. But the upshot is, I think that there are very few voices teaching the true message of God and Jesus out there, and a lot of false ones. I think a lot of people have been hurt, and I think that is way many become atheists. They are not rejecting God, so much as rejecting the God of "so and so" church or teacher. From a lot of what I see, I think a lot of atheists will meet the real Jesus, and I think they will be back in a generation or so, but in a different form from what we now know as Christianity.

Very well put. I believe that most of those who are leaving the church are leaving because they are starving for truth instead of the feel good religion, that is lulling them to sleep. People are not even being taught what sin is anymore. Mankind needs boundaries, and to remove God removes morality, the boundary that humanity craves whether they know it, or believe it or not. It is just like raising, and training children. They might complain about their boundaries when they are growing up, but if you take a child away, even from a strict family they will desire to go back to their family. So it is with God's "children". Personally I desire it when people care enough to show me when I am wrong. Certainly sometimes I will get abrupt when someone tells me when I am wrong but in the long run I always consider all reproof, and I believe we all do that. The problem is we want to take the credit for something we have been reproved for instead of thanking someone for showing us the error in the first place.

As for atheism, like Christianity, many of both that I talk to have no idea what these titles actually mean. An atheist who says they "believe" in something has no idea of the ideology of atheism, like Christians who say the believe and that is all they have to do have not studied what it takes to be Christian. Its like the evolutionist who says "when the dinosaurs were created". I have heard statements like this from staunch evolutionists, which is ROFTL funny to me.

The bottom line to me is if we are going to profess something we need to be consistent in that belief, or ideology, and learn what it means to prove it if we are going to stand by it.

 

[Ken Behrens]

People are not even being taught what sin is anymore. Mankind needs boundaries, and to remove God removes morality, the boundary that humanity craves whether they know it, or believe it or not.

I think the real challenge posed by atheists is the following: Can you give a definition of God, or of sin, or what everyone needs, in a way that requires no religious terminology of any kind, and especially no Scripture? As long as we must use our own terminology (devised by our own traditions) to try to account for others' needs, we will always appear unreal and irrelevant to them.

 

[delaD3]

I think the real challenge posed by atheists is the following: Can you give a definition of God, or of sin, or what everyone needs, in a way that requires no religious terminology of any kind, and especially no Scripture? As long as we must use our own terminology (devised by our own traditions) to try to account for others' needs, we will always appear unreal and irrelevant to them.

Have you seen this?

The top picture is a Reverend. The bottom picture is a singer.

So, how can someone prove that there is a God using only basic words, no scriptures, and no religious terminology? Well, do you believe that God created both the top person and the bottom person or would they be a chance mix match?

 

[delaD3]

He Stopped Loving Her Today
George Jones
He said "I'll love you till I die"
She told him "you'll forget in time"
As the years went slowly by
She still preyed upon his mind

He kept her picture on his wall
Went half-crazy now and then
He still loved her through it all
Hoping she'd come back again

Kept some letters by his bed
Dated nineteen sixty-two
He had underlined in red
Every single "I love you"

I went to see him just today
Oh, but I didn't see no tears
All dressed up to go away
First time I'd seen him smile in years

He stopped loving her today
They placed a wreath upon his door
And soon they'll carry him away
He stopped loving her today

You know, she came to see him one last time
Aww, and we all wondered if she would
And it kept runnin' through my mind
"This time he's over her for good"

He stopped loving her today
They placed a wreath upon his door
And soon they'll carry him away
He stopped loving her today