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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Icr
- Thread starter Enigma'07
- Start date
Mechanical Bliss
Secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist.
Better late than never, but there are two general reasons why this site is frowned upon:
1. It is not a scientific resource. The people who work for ICR are required to adhere to YECism. They are obligated to conclude that the principles of YECism are true no matter what and any evidence that contradicts it must be ignored. That is neither a scientific nor honest pursuit of knowledge.
2. As a result of #1, the ICR website contains lies, either by omission or outright misinformation. Commonly cited examples of lies are by Snelling and Austin who misrepresent and deliberately misuse radiometric dating methods while withholding critical information from their readers that would discredit their articles. They depend on the ignorance of their audience (or at least unwillingness to check up on their claims) and unwavering credulity when it comes to YECism. They omit information, for example, that they presume their audience would not find out, and they do it only because it makes their work seem credible when it is in fact not credible.
1. It is not a scientific resource. The people who work for ICR are required to adhere to YECism. They are obligated to conclude that the principles of YECism are true no matter what and any evidence that contradicts it must be ignored. That is neither a scientific nor honest pursuit of knowledge.
2. As a result of #1, the ICR website contains lies, either by omission or outright misinformation. Commonly cited examples of lies are by Snelling and Austin who misrepresent and deliberately misuse radiometric dating methods while withholding critical information from their readers that would discredit their articles. They depend on the ignorance of their audience (or at least unwillingness to check up on their claims) and unwavering credulity when it comes to YECism. They omit information, for example, that they presume their audience would not find out, and they do it only because it makes their work seem credible when it is in fact not credible.
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Deamiter
I just follow Christ.
For what it's worth, I agree entirely with Mechanical Bliss as a theistic evolutionist. The contributers to that site are not held to the usual scientific standard of having to respond and address problems with their theories.
While I used to think there were many strong arguments brought forth by ICR, as I studied further into it, I found repeated peer-reviewed articles that made ICR's claims look silly. Further, when I looked up the citations of both ICR and it's opponents, I found that ICR frequently misquotes, or quotes out of context the articles it uses for "support."
Anyway, I'm moving this to C&E where it'll get more answers (we can only pray they stay on topic).
While I used to think there were many strong arguments brought forth by ICR, as I studied further into it, I found repeated peer-reviewed articles that made ICR's claims look silly. Further, when I looked up the citations of both ICR and it's opponents, I found that ICR frequently misquotes, or quotes out of context the articles it uses for "support."
Anyway, I'm moving this to C&E where it'll get more answers (we can only pray they stay on topic).
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I on the other hand love the ICR group. We have lot's of their videos at our Church. It is not that they are "required" to see things the way they do. They do see them that way and it adheres to the mission statement of the group. They are right on the money.
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raphael_aa
Wild eyed liberal
Lyric's Dad said:
Not really seeking to be argumentative, but how do you KNOW they are right on the money? Doesn't that really just mean they agree with your thoughts on the matter? Then we need to ask, what makes your thoughts on the matter definitive?
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T
The Seeker
Guest
So the fact that they only accept research from professed young Earth creationists and hence ignore conflicting data doesn't bother you at all?Lyric's Dad said:
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warispeace
ubi dubium, ibi libertas
Enigma'07 said:
'They'? Who's They?
ICR is a great thing for creationists. [young-earthers.] There they can find all the justification they need to believe in a literal six-day creation. The folks at ICR find preaching about creation more important than telling the truth. If you feel the same way, ICR is for you.
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Seeker: Thats small change when you consider the fact that they often twist data, present half truths and false information. Seemingly breaking a commandment. Although many like to justify it by saying that a few lies are ok if it might bring someone closer to jesus. Which seems contrary to the scripture they claim to uphold so much.
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Mechanical Bliss
Secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist.
Lyric's Dad said:
Incorrect. They are indeed required to adhere to YECism:
"More explicitly, the administration and faculty of ICR are committed to the tenets of both scientific creationism and Biblical creationism as formulated below."
http://www.icr.org/abouticr/tenets.htm
The people who work for ICR must sign a "statement of faith" that binds them to that commitment.
Then why is young earth creationism so easily disproved?
Why do they have to lie (and thus break the ninth commandment) to adhere to YECism?
The only way they are "right on the money" is in that they are raking it in from people who just don't know any better and are told that YECism must be right even though they know next to nothing about the relevant sciences.
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