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It is the same inspiration as the Bible but is not equal to the Bible? He began correct that her writings can't be equal to the Bible if the Bible is to test them but then he denies his own logical statement and declares her writing as inspired the same way as the Bible. It would be more logical to just come out and say that they are equal. But of course that would go against protestant theology and it would make testing her work by the Bible of no use. In short he presents a completely illogical position.
If the EGW claim is true then how can the Holy Spirit be a lesser light in Ellen and a greater light in The bible? Isn't the holy spirt the same in both?
This goes back to the subjectivity of the tests. You or a Mormon or someone else can say that their prophet meets all their tests so that their prophet is now an equal source of inspiration with the Bible. It is based upon tests which are determined by the one interpreting the Bible. In this case as Morris Venden and F.D. Nichol's say Ellen White is an inspired commentator on the Bible. As long as you go by the inspired commentator's interpretation then it is easy to say that the prophet is in complete agreement with the Bible. This is why in the broader sense these so called prophets are never accepted like the Bible. Hence they are never as inspired as the Bible. It is a simple reality and merely claiming your prophet is inspired like the Bible does nothing but feed those who already believe in the so called prophet.
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>This is one of the reasons why Ellen White made it clear that her >work was as a lesser light that led people to a greater light. In other
>words, God used her to point others to what He says through His Word.
This refers to the most misunderstood and mis-represented state-
ments of Ellen White. Fifteen hits in the EGW writings refer to greater and/or lesser light. There are only four primary references and not one specifically refers to the Bible as the greater light. Seven are duplicates of the 1902 statement which is often quoted, but never in context.
Aside from the 1902 statement, one contrasts infidel authors with the truth of revelation. Twice Ellen White identifies John the Baptist as the lesser light and Christ the greater light. And, parallel to this, she once contrasts OT types with Christ.
Thus, in all but the oft quoted quote, Christ and or truth is the greater light. And even it is not so clear but what some are able to argue from context that the "greater light" even there is Christ, "the Lord." But the greatest surprise may come in discovering the issue underlying and precipitating Ellen White's statement, which I will address in post #a (i).
>This is why as Seventh-day Adventists, we say (as did Ellen White) that ALL
>of our doctrines must be able to be supported by Scripture alone. Obviously,
>there are many non-Seventh-day Adventists who believe that the Scriptures
>are inspired of God but who have no knowledge of Ellen White or perhaps even
>reject her as a messenger from God, therefore caution is imperative.
I fully and heartily agree with this statement. But I may want to discuss
it further in #a(i), as this presents only one side of a vital paradox.
Leroy Moore
http://www.sdanet.org/archive/2005/Sep12005/0043.html
[relevant part of his follow-up post]
Distributing Ellen White's books is a vital plan of witness which she strongly urged, as we will see as we now turn to a more specific treatment of her oft repeated but little understood greater & lesser light statement: Little heed is given to the Bible, and the Lord has given a lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light
(Ev p. 37, 1902).
Indeed, "a lesser light to lead ... to the greater light" reflects the her primary burden in the entire admonition from which the quote comes: the responsibility of our brethren to distribute her books widely to the public. Non-SDAs that are to be led by them to "the the greater
light"--the Scriptures. Nothing in the entire, long testimony reflects any kind of caution against the use of her works, but only for their use by the members and distribution to the public. Of a total of 14 greater and lesser light hits in the Ellen White disk, eight are replications of the above. Three contrast John the baptist as the lesser light to Christ, the greater Light (1860, 1873,) One expands
this to include the entire Jewish dispensation with its types as the lesser light. And one contrasts Christ with lesser light teachers of His day. (The 14th is not relevant.) In all the 13 Christ is consistently the greater light reflected by lesser lights. But none of the lesser
lights statements imply a diminished prophetic role.
One testimony with a context parallel to that of 1902 identifies Ellen White's books as "great light." The devisings of men, she charges, closed "the door to great light which would have shone in place of lesser light" (PH079 7). This "great light" refers especially to the Great Controversy, but also to Patriarchs and Prophets and Desire of Ages. All were demoted by setting them aside for the promotion of lesser light books. This is precisely the context of he oft quoted 1902 "lesser light" statement. Note a few earlier statements in her appeal:
Sister White is not the originator of these books. They contain the instruction . . . God has been giving her. They contain the precious, comforting light that God has graciously given . . . to the world.
From their pages this light is to shine . . . leading them to the Saviour. The Lord has declared that these books are to be scattered throughout the world." She twice indicates God's intent and instructions that these be given "to the world." The very next paragraph, which again reminds of the divine mandate contains the
oft mis-used quote: The Lord has sent his people much instruction, line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little. Little heed is given to the Bible, and the Lord has given a lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light. O, how much good
would be accomplished if the books containing this light were read with a determination to carry out the principles they contain! . . . My brethren and sisters, work earnestly to circulate these books. . .
Take the books to business men, to teachers of the gospel . . ." (Ev p. 37 1902; emphasis supplied).
Though "greater light" refers to the Bible, far from diminishing the role and function "of these books," emphasis is on their divine origin and the urgency that they not only be read and the principles acted
upon by our members, but the entire context has to do with the urgency that they be widely distributed. Because of Ellen White's urgency that her books be read, acted upon, and circulated and in view of the increasing use of this very testimony contrary to
context, I shall present one more post: a (iii) to expand on Ellen White's sense of urgency regarding the divine authority and use of her writings.
A. Leroy Moore
http://www.sdanet.org/archive/2005/Sep12005/0051.html
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Are there not degree, or levels of inspiration, even though they came from the same source? If so, how could we then designate the writers of the Bible to be equally inspired?
woob wrote:
I don't but then I don't make the statement that EGW is inspired like the Bible, you should ask Kirkpatrick that question. For me we don't even know most of the people who wrote what is in the Bible whether material was even written by a Prophet. so those issues are not to relevant to me as I am not trying to show that a modern prophet is equal to the Bible prophets.
I will have to answer Kirkpatricks posts latter.
some statements made about egws prophetic/athorutive/doctrianl role. Here inspiered commentaryDid Ellen White say this about herself, or did the Lord actually say this?
Could it be that this was merely her own humble opinion of herself?
Note: I am not siding with any claim at this time. I am just simply asking questions that are designed to get people to put more thought into this.
But NightEternal,
What we present is undisguised. We are completely open advocates of ML Andreasen, Joe Crews Adventism. But "Gestapo"--what do you mean by that? Do you mean to imply the use of coercion or force? Or is this just smear tactics on your part? There seems a vicious streak in your response to our work. You consistently write-off specific concerns and reply with a spirit that perhaps you do not realize you are displaying. It is interesting to see the attitude that emanates from Good News Unlimited, Present Truth Magazine, Adventist Today and Spectrum. Be that as it may, may you seek and find all the leading of Jesus, and may you be a faithful member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in every way. May you find evermore peace in our Lord. Pr. Kirkpatrick
I should have continued quoting to point out that the last days were not Peter's last days but our day and age :The writer of Hebrews, in the passage quoted, referred to his own time as the 'final days' or 'last days'. Also, do you think groups that have their own prophet, even making their prophet a 'Fundamental Belief', are open to their sons and daughters prophesying and their young men having visions?
Lastly, I think God speaking to us through his Son is where the rubber absolutely meets the road. Jesus is enough.
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