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The sinner Jesus saves is a saint and no longer a sinner in need of the law for guidance. The saved sinner, a saint is a changed individual no longer having a propensity to sin.
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The sinner Jesus saves is a saint and no longer a sinner in need of the law for guidance. The saved sinner, a saint is a changed individual no longer having a propensity to sin.So sez you. Being a factual sinner is the ground of unmerited Grace. Take away the measures of the law proving same and there are other issues.
Jesus saves sinners.
OK I agree with your first paragraph.
If one is legally obedient they have no need for unmerited favor because they have merited favor.
If we are delivered from the law (Rom 7:6) and Paul allegorically says to throw out the law in Gal 4:30 along with his not under the law statements, how can you say this is not casting aside the law? We're led by the Spirit and not obligated to the law (Gal 5:18).
Are you trying to pull muh leg on the second paragraph?
How was the Philippian jailer answered to his question - What must I do to be saved? Acts 16 I take the incident to be a present reality and not a future event.You are not saved yet, you have faith in it though....... Or are you resurrected and cleaned living with Messiah in heaven now?
Have you no clue what 'your redemption draweth nigh' means? Is your salvation based on faith, or on something that already happened to you?
No sale. Salvation is a current possession. Otherwise we have no fellowship with God. Worship then would amount to purchasing salvation. I don't buy such nonsense.The purpose of Holy Spirit and grace in your life is to conform you to his image on that day you will be as he is and be known as he is known. As the word of God made flesh he is the law embodied in flesh. Keeping the law is not good enough he is making you become.the law which will be complete on that day. You in him he in you both in the Father. You can not ignore the law it is him revealed and thereby it is to be you. To convert to Judaism takes you out of grace and places you in the weakness of your ability( in this way the law is passed away) However Jesus has removed the weakness of the law( thats you)by fulfilling the law and giving it a full streangth which is God in you writing his law on your heart and mind making you his brother of the same womb conforming you to be the living word.
According to both Paul and John Christians (saints) sin. I refer you to the letters to Romans 7, the Corinthians and 1 John 1.Sinlessness doesn't sit as an honest claim to my ears, as you know well enough by now.
According to both Paul and John Christians (saints) sin. I refer you to the letters to Romans 7, the Corinthians and 1 John 1.
It's clear you struggle with sin since this is what you focus on. I applaud your heart to be righteous for God. Yet, Abraham was declared righteous because he 'beleived' in what God promised him. NOT becaused he received it in his day. Are you a son of Abraham through faith, or are you clinging to something you think you've already received? That would not be being saved and found righteous through 'faith' but through a work that was done in your life.How was the Philippian jailer answered to his question - What must I do to be saved? Acts 16 I take the incident to be a present reality and not a future event.
Yes if you take it out of its context I'd agree with you. Jesus is talking about end times events and deliverance of the wrath to be pored out at least in Israel. If it isn't then no one including the Philippian jailer is saved. So why not party hardy till then? After all we're not saved as in redeemed anyway.
No sale. Salvation is a current possession. Otherwise we have no fellowship with God. Worship then would amount to purchasing salvation. I don't buy such nonsense.
What did I say? Did I say Christians don't sin? Nope! Did I provide passages and general references to back that up? Yup! So IMHO you ring hollow.Sinlessness doesn't sit as an honest claim to my ears, as you know well enough by now.
What did I say? Did I say Christians don't sin? Nope! Did I provide passages and general references to back that up? Yup! So IMHO you ring hollow.
As a Christian I possess a righteousness that doesn't stem from me (Phil 3:9) by declaration Rom 4 Just like Abraham and David. Both sinned and yet were said to be righteous.You can refer to whatever you want and will never find a presentation of current sinless perfection for anyone other than by wishful thinking or claims from people who aren't honest.
I'm sure you misunderstand me. You're picking up in the middle of a very long conversation. If you read many of my posts you won't find me dealing with sin as a subject except in response to the pro law camp who feel they're righteous because they worship on Saturday and condemn me for not submitting to the law. Its not my covenant and I can't violate it. NTL sin still exists as it did prior to the law and after the law. Yes I sin without the law. Yes I'm righteous in God's eyes or I've to call the Bible a fraud. This righteousness isn't from my doing. It doesn't matter if I quote you the Bible or not. I'm firmly established on what it says. If you want verses, just ask.It's clear you struggle with sin since this is what you focus on. I applaud your heart to be righteous for God. Yet, Abraham was declared righteous because he 'beleived' in what God promised him. NOT becaused he received it in his day. Are you a son of Abraham through faith, or are you clinging to something you think you've already received? That would not be being saved and found righteous through 'faith' but through a work that was done in your life.
We believe we are being kept and will be saved, that death will not have victory over us, though we die. We are saved by grace through faith. We have not yet received our reward, nor the promise. We, like Abraham have faith that we will receive it.
I agree with believing the promise of our state of being. We declare that which is not 'now' but will be in the future as 'real', as truth. We are sinners, and will die in our sins because of our earthly state, but we are saints in God's eyes as we die to ourselves and live in Messiah. ONLY when we are dead to ourselves are we alive to God. But my friend, you will forever be putting the old man to death on this earth till you die. No man is perfected this side of heaven. We are all being formed here in this life. And truely the answer is as simple as a babys response. It does not take a theologean to understand. It's called faith, and it has nothing to do with what we 'do' but what we believe. And if we believe we know we are to continually kill our flesh, submitting every thought to Messiah. Why? Why do we have unclean thoughts to submit to Messiah, as believers? Because we are constantlly being formed in this world. It's our womb. And when we are 'born again' we will be what God has planned for us. Why? Because he already did it? Or because he promises he will do it?
Come now, we are to live holy, but we have not yet attained holiness. This is our goal in this life. And it is attained through faith, not anything already done to us. It was done for us already, yes. But it has not yet been realized in our beings yet.
We were saved 'in this hope', and 'hope that is seen is not hope'. BUT, we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience. AND likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness.
Romans 8
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present timehttp://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-33are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the creation waits with eager longing for http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-34the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-35was subjected to futility, not willingly, but http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-36because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-37the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-38the whole creation http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-39has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-40the firstfruits of the Spirit, http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-41groan inwardly as http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-42we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-43the redemption of our bodies. 24 For http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-44in this hope we were saved. Now http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-45hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/romans/8.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-46wait for it with patience. 26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness
We are weak, and have a 'hope' of being saved.
I'll try again.The purpose of Holy Spirit and grace in your life is to conform you to his image on that day you will be as he is and be known as he is known. As the word of God made flesh he is the law embodied in flesh. Keeping the law is not good enough he is making you become.the law which will be complete on that day. You in him he in you both in the Father. You can not ignore the law it is him revealed and thereby it is to be you. To convert to Judaism takes you out of grace and places you in the weakness of your ability( in this way the law is passed away) However Jesus has removed the weakness of the law( thats you)by fulfilling the law and giving it a full streangth which is God in you writing his law on your heart and mind making you his brother of the same womb conforming you to be the living word.
I'm no longer under the law per 1 Tim 1:9-10 and you must use the law lawfully per verse 8. Here ya go -Yeah, you do that every single time I call you on it.
"-a saint and no longer a sinner-"
Sin always remains under the law, condemned. Under Grace as well, condemned.
Since they sinned why are they called righteous? Abraham's righteousness had nothing to do with the law. Since David sinned while under the law, it also had nothing to do with his righteousness, clearly not stemming from the law. Mine comes the very same way. I'm righteous and not self righteous.Certainly didn't mean they were sinless by any stretch of the imaginations.
Look you can say anything you like. I made no dishonest statement(s). You can't and won't ever get me to confess something I'm not. I certainly will admit that I've been known as a sinner though.It would help if you eliminated dishonest verbiage.
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