I used to be an adventist but now...

[help_the_lord]

I don't believe the things ellen white has to say so I consider myself a 7th day Christian.. I don't want to be tied to her and stuff like this.


Had Adventists, after the great disappointment in 1844, held fast their faith ... receiving the message and proclaiming it to the world, they would have seen the salvation of God, the Lord would have wrought mightily with their efforts, the work would have been completed, and Christ would have come ere this to receive his people to their reward ... it was not the will of God the coming of Christ should be thus delayed." (Selected Messages, Book 1, p. 68)

"If they will be faithful in bringing to His treasury the means lent them, His work will make rapid advancement. Many souls will be won to the truth and the day of Christ's coming will be hastened." (Counsels on Stewardship p. 45)​

The Bible says, "He hath appointed a day to judge the world." (Acts 17:3)​

Hebrews 10:37; "For yet a little while and he that shall come will come and will not tarry.​

​

"God cannot take the slave to heaven, who has been kept in ignorance and degradation, knowing nothing of God, or the Bible, fearing nothing but his master's lash, and not holding so elevated a position as his master's brute beasts. But he does the best thing for him that a compassionate God can do. He lets him be as though he had not been. (Spiritual Gifts Vol. 1, p. 193)

this is just absurd..
​

"After the flood everything had been destroyed upon which man could subsist, and therefore, the Lord in their necessity gave Noah the permission to eat the clean animals which he had taken with him into the ark." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 121)

this is also absurd.. i don't believe for 1 second that god could create heaven and earth and everything on it in 6 days and not provide noah with appropriate food at the end of a flood that he caused.. more to the point paul said meat is to be taken with thanksgiving not "not fed to children" as she also states... when jesus fed the 5300 with the fish i bet there were some children getting that meat..​

In discussing tithing in the Review andHerald, November 10th, 1896, Mrs. White said:

"Let none feel at liberty to retain their tithe to use according to their own judgment. They are not to apply it as they see fit ... A minister should not feel that he can apply it according to his own judgment."
​

Ten years later in a letter written to Elder George Watson in January, 1906, Mrs. White wrote,​

"it has been presented to me for years that my tithe is to be appropriated by myself … It is a matter that should not be commented upon; for it will necessitate my making known these matters which I do not desire to do ... For years there have been persons who have lost confidence in appropriation of the tithe but have placed their tithe in my hands ... I write this to you so that you shall keep cool and not become stirred up, lest more shall follow their example". Again we see her contradicting her own counsel while supposedly under the guidance of God.
​

Concerning this contradiction, one of her sons, W. C. White, wrote

"The letter was written by my mother and duplicated and a copy was sent, very unwisely I believe, to my brother. I am very sorry that the letter was written."
​

Ellen White even admitted to contradicting herself at times:

"What appeared in testimony 11 concerning the health institute should not have been given ... I yielded my judgment to that of others … in this I did wrong."
​

The question immediately comes up, how could she yield her judgment to that of others when God has indicated to her what she should write? Her original testimony began with "I was shown"! Obviously, one of the testimonials has to be an error. But they were both supposedly written under the guise of divine inspiration.​

His countenance did not wear an expression of grief and repining, but ever one of peaceful serenity." (Steps to Christ, p. 120) Here we are told that Jesus' face always appeared peaceful and serene. What sort of expression do you think was on His face when He wept over Jerusalem? What did His face look like during His cleansing of the temple when He was overturning the money changers' tables? Can you imagine the look of anguish on His face in the Garden of Gethsemane? Then picture the scene on the cross begging forgiveness for His executioners; giving His mother into the custody of apostle John. Imagine the tortured look when He cried out, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Why does Mrs. White try to paint a false picture of Jesus? Isn't He well known as the 'man of sorrows'? There is no doubt that Jesus had the 'peace of God', but to describe His facial expression as above is nonsensical. If you believe that statement you have to ask yourself the question, did He really come and suffer for me?
​

"Hope did not present to Him His coming forth from the grave a conqueror or tell him of the Father's acceptance of the sacrifice. He feared that sin was so offensive to God that their separation was to be eternal." (Desire of Ages p. 664)

thats absurd if he truly believed this he woudln't of told the apostles he would die and be rise from the dead​

Then there appears against the sky a hand holding two tables of stone folded together ... The hand opens the tables and there are seen the precepts of the decalog traced as with a pen of fire." (Great Controversy, p. 560) In another vision describing the Ten Commandments as seen in heaven, Mrs. White wrote, "In the ark was the golden pot of manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of stone which folded together like a book. Jesus opened them, and I saw the Ten Commandments written on them with the finger of God. On one table were four and on the other six." (Christian Experience and Teachings of E. G. White, p. 91)​

Exodus 32:15 describes the Ten Commandments written on both sides of both tables of stone​

Let us now look at another blatant Bible contradiction. We find, "True knowledge has decreased with every successive generation." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 4, p. 154) This does not agree with a real prophet that is a favorite of many of us. We find in Daniel 11:4, "Even to the time of the end, many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."​

In Desire of Ages, Chapter 20, p. 404, Mrs. White says that the Pharisees were convicted of their sins by reading what Jesus had written in the dust. John 8:9 however, gives a different picture. "And they which heard it being convicted by their own conscience"​

"I was shown the company present at the conference. Said the angel, 'Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus.' (Testimonies, Vol. 1, p. 131)
​

All these people are dead: none of them went through the seven plagues; and none were translated to heaven.​

this is just some of the non sense i can't tolerate
​

 

[help_the_lord]

this is just a portion of it another HUGE HUGE THING is the whole "investigative judgement" nonsense

The investigative judgment is a unique Seventh-day Adventist doctrine, which asserts that a divine judgment of professed Christians has been in progress since 1844


HERES THE EASIEST DISPROOF IN THE WORLD FOR THAT

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgement must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Why are you coming into a SDA room if you don't believe as we do? I understand that you honour the Sabbath but don't obviously hold alot else of what we believe. Everything you have writeen above, I see different than you but I'm not going to try and convince you of how I see it... only the Holy Spirit can truly convict any of us.

Are you trying to warn us of the things you have found? I think it is always good to consider these things and there may be some whose faith cannot withstand this kind of scrutiny. I however am not disuaded in the least away from the tenets of pioneer understanding...

 

[help_the_lord]

i just want other people to have an opportunity to see things objectively it's not all roses as it would appear and mislead

 

[OntheDL]

Look, I just make a post in another thread that we'd love to share our beliefs with others. But for someone whose mind is made up, there is not much we could do.

Here are the answers to your objection. BTW, we aren't all suckers for fables and you are the only smart one who figured it out.

I don't believe the things ellen white has to say so I consider myself a 7th day Christian.. I don't want to be tied to her and stuff like this.

Had Adventists, after the great disappointment in 1844, held fast their faith ... receiving the message and proclaiming it to the world, they would have seen the salvation of God, the Lord would have wrought mightily with their efforts, the work would have been completed, and Christ would have come ere this to receive his people to their reward ... it was not the will of God the coming of Christ should be thus delayed." (Selected Messages, Book 1, p. 68)

"If they will be faithful in bringing to His treasury the means lent them, His work will make rapid advancement. Many souls will be won to the truth and the day of Christ's coming will be hastened." (Counsels on Stewardship p. 45)

The Bible says, "He hath appointed a day to judge the world." (Acts 17:3)

Hebrews 10:37; "For yet a little while and he that shall come will come and will not tarry.

2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

God has not set a day for His return if not all the conditions are met. That date depends on all who can be saved is saved because He is not willing that any should perish. He knew the date in advance but it still depends on the condition and we who claim His name have alot to do with it.

"God cannot take the slave to heaven, who has been kept in ignorance and degradation, knowing nothing of God, or the Bible, fearing nothing but his master's lash, and not holding so elevated a position as his master's brute beasts. But he does the best thing for him that a compassionate God can do. He lets him be as though he had not been. (Spiritual Gifts Vol. 1, p. 193)

this is just absurd..

"After the flood everything had been destroyed upon which man could subsist, and therefore, the Lord in their necessity gave Noah the permission to eat the clean animals which he had taken with him into the ark." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 121)

this is also absurd.. i don't believe for 1 second that god could create heaven and earth and everything on it in 6 days and not provide noah with appropriate food at the end of a flood that he caused.. more to the point paul said meat is to be taken with thanksgiving not "not fed to children" as she also states... when jesus fed the 5300 with the fish i bet there were some children getting that meat..

Wait a second. Are you saying you as a mere mortal are qualified to judge inspiration? Doesn't the bible say the way seems good to man ends in death? Do you know the difference in condition of the earth before and after the flood?

And are you aware of the fact that the condition of the meat has deteriorated since it became industrialized and monopolized?

In discussing tithing in the Review andHerald, November 10th, 1896, Mrs. White said: "Let none feel at liberty to retain their tithe to use according to their own judgment. They are not to apply it as they see fit ... A minister should not feel that he can apply it according to his own judgment."

Ten years later in a letter written to Elder George Watson in January, 1906, Mrs. White wrote,

"it has been presented to me for years that my tithe is to be appropriated by myself … It is a matter that should not be commented upon; for it will necessitate my making known these matters which I do not desire to do ... For years there have been persons who have lost confidence in appropriation of the tithe but have placed their tithe in my hands ... I write this to you so that you shall keep cool and not become stirred up, lest more shall follow their example".

Again we see her contradicting her own counsel while supposedly under the guidance of God.

The so called contradiction is her concern for the unity of the church. On one hand, she felt the impression to divert the tithe given to her to the south to pay for the black ministers while wishing for others to keep cool and not create a stir, a division among the church.

Concerning this contradiction, one of her sons, W. C. White, wrote

"The letter was written by my mother and duplicated and a copy was sent, very unwisely I believe, to my brother. I am very sorry that the letter was written."

Ellen White even admitted to contradicting herself at times:

"What appeared in testimony 11 concerning the health institute should not have been given ... I yielded my judgment to that of others … in this I did wrong."

Ellen White did many things and wrote many private letters in her life. Are you going to judge her prophetic gift based on her private life? How did David do? How about Peter, Paul? Maybe we should all throw their writings out of the bible.

The question immediately comes up, how could she yield her judgment to that of others when God has indicated to her what she should write? Her original testimony began with "I was shown"! Obviously, one of the testimonials has to be an error. But they were both supposedly written under the guise of divine inspiration.

I don't know what you are talking about since you are making partial quotes.

His countenance did not wear an expression of grief and repining, but ever one of peaceful serenity." (Steps to Christ, p. 120) Here we are told that Jesus' face always appeared peaceful and serene. What sort of expression do you think was on His face when He wept over Jerusalem? What did His face look like during His cleansing of the temple when He was overturning the money changers' tables? Can you imagine the look of anguish on His face in the Garden of Gethsemane? Then picture the scene on the cross begging forgiveness for His executioners; giving His mother into the custody of apostle John. Imagine the tortured look when He cried out, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Why does Mrs. White try to paint a false picture of Jesus? Isn't He well known as the 'man of sorrows'? There is no doubt that Jesus had the 'peace of God', but to describe His facial expression as above is nonsensical. If you believe that statement you have to ask yourself the question, did He really come and suffer for me?

Here is the whole context. It appears to me that you are just nitpicking.

There are many who have an erroneous idea of the life and character of Christ. They think that He was devoid of warmth and sunniness, that He was stern, severe, and joyless. In many cases the whole religious experience is colored by these gloomy views. {SC 120.2}

It is often said that Jesus wept, but that He was never known to smile. Our Saviour was indeed a Man of Sorrows, and acquainted with grief, for He opened His heart to all the woes of men. But though His life was self-denying and shadowed with pain and care, His spirit was not crushed. His countenance did not wear an expression of grief and repining, but ever one of peaceful serenity. His heart was a wellspring of life, and wherever He went He carried rest and peace, joy and gladness. {SC 120.3}

Our Saviour was deeply serious and intensely in earnest, but never gloomy or morose. The life of those who imitate Him will be full of earnest purpose; they will have a deep sense of personal responsibility. Levity will be repressed; there will be no boisterous merriment, no rude jesting; but the religion of Jesus gives peace like a river. It does not quench the light of joy; it does not restrain cheerfulness nor cloud the sunny, smiling face. Christ came not to be ministered unto but to minister; and when His love reigns in the heart, we shall follow His example. {SC 120.4}

"Hope did not present to Him His coming forth from the grave a conqueror or tell him of the Father's acceptance of the sacrifice. He feared that sin was so offensive to God that their separation was to be eternal." (Desire of Ages p. 664)

thats absurd if he truly believed this he woudln't of told the apostles he would die and be rise from the dead

Didn't the bible itself record the fact that Jesus cried out on the cross: 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Then there appears against the sky a hand holding two tables of stone folded together ... The hand opens the tables and there are seen the precepts of the decalog traced as with a pen of fire." (Great Controversy, p. 560) In another vision describing the Ten Commandments as seen in heaven, Mrs. White wrote, "In the ark was the golden pot of manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of stone which folded together like a book. Jesus opened them, and I saw the Ten Commandments written on them with the finger of God. On one table were four and on the other six." (Christian Experience and Teachings of E. G. White, p. 91)

Exodus 32:15 describes the Ten Commandments written on both sides of both tables of stone

Where is the supposed contradiction?

Let us now look at another blatant Bible contradiction. We find, "True knowledge has decreased with every successive generation." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 4, p. 154) This does not agree with a real prophet that is a favorite of many of us. We find in Daniel 11:4, "Even to the time of the end, many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."

First of all that's not actual quote from Ellen White. It is a heading, added by the compiler of the manuscript.

Secondly, doesn't the bible say that day (the end) shall not come except there be a falling away first?

Thirdly, do you even know what prophetic event Daniel 11:4 is actually talking about?

In Desire of Ages, Chapter 20, p. 404, Mrs. White says that the Pharisees were convicted of their sins by reading what Jesus had written in the dust. John 8:9 however, gives a different picture. "And they which heard it being convicted by their own conscience"

Desire of Ages p404 doesn't say anything about the incident of with Pharisees the woman caught in adultery. Are you just copying them from Anti-Adventist websites, without verifying them for yourself what it actually was saying.???

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

The bible records in this sequence: Jesus wrote, Jesus said and Jesus wrote again. So they didn't all see it and hear it simultaneously. The bible didn't have punctuations between verses. It actually read like: and wrote on the ground and they which heard it, being convicted... so it's more like from both the writing on the ground echoes with what Jesus said convicted them.

"I was shown the company present at the conference. Said the angel, 'Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus.' (Testimonies, Vol. 1, p. 131)

All these people are dead: none of them went through the seven plagues; and none were translated to heaven.

I suppose you think none of us SDAs have seen this quote before and we must be suckers.

It's called conditional prophecy similar to what Jonah pronounced to Nineveh and what Isaiah pronounced to king Hezekiah of his immediate death?

this is just some of the non sense i can't tolerate

Really? Even among the 14-15 million SDA members, most don't understand and don't believe in our message. You think the rest of us get so worked up by that?

I'm sorry that you didn't get it, I'm just glad I got it. Now you are not the first and won't be the last to act this way. No one is pointing a gun to your head to stay in the SDA church. You left so what's your gripe now? In fact I wish all those who resent our message would just quit the SDA church. So we can't be saturated.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Why does the man come into the SDA room??

Nice question ECR!

Why do I come?

THe answer would be sort of: Why not??

SDA's are taught to proclaim the message, to proseletyze others into their new found faith. Is it that surprising that some people might actually use their brain and question certain things?? Why not adress them here? Is someone afraid that someone could fall away from the faith because of the issues adresssed? If that was so then his or her faith was not a faith indeed but rather holding fast to something blindly without ever having been touched or led by the Lord. Is anyone afraid that somebody might not join the SDA service because of the things mentioned in this forum, if so then they are trying to hide something, some uncomfortable information that might shed a dark shadow upon EGW and Co.

The objections of our brothers have a solid foundation, though.

Lets take the first point: THe coming of the Lord delayed. What a nonsense!!

You cannot delay nor speed it up as it is commonly believed in the SDA.

Why do I think this way?

Because WHEN you read the bible you will see that (even though the gospel will be preached and stuff to everyone) things happen after a timeline, you have prophecies that hint at that. Certain things must come to pass etc. Which makes EGW's statement not only void but a clear errror.

Besides the book of life consists of the names of saved people, right? It was written before the foundation of the world, right?

So, didnt God know who is gonna be saved, why should He allow any delay or rush. THats just crazy talk... WHy should He rely on some dudes from North America.

Lets admit for a second it was true, well, what were the odds that a bunch of adventists back in the day would have been able to proclaim the message to the world. Only by this day, by mean of modern technology it has become possible...

 

[JohnMarsten]

the point with the conditional prophecy is really great.

What was the condition?? the coming of Christ, right! first it does not say IF but WHEN, well seems sort of like a universal prophecy. but why was she show that? Did God want to create another confusion? or maybe some people thought that similar to that miller mason strategy people will again sell their properties and give it to the church? I guess none of you have thought about that,,,

 

[JohnMarsten]

as far as the tithes are concerned, when you have read the thread in which I have prooved that alcohol was bought (commanded by the Lord) using tithes, it clearly indicates that the tithing system is wrong, and our brother is right.

 

[JohnMarsten]

and frankly!

be it as it may and lets admit for a second that our brother is wrong, you say there is nothing we can do! I agree! there is no love in the SDA church for people who dont think the same way. But Jesus has said to even love our enemies, which is hard indeed!

 

[JohnMarsten]

"After the flood everything had been destroyed upon which man could subsist, and therefore, the Lord in their necessity gave Noah the permission to eat the clean animals which he had taken with him into the ark." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 121)

yep, I thats just plain crazy, he could have sent torrents of food down from heaven...


maybe the manna wasnt evented yet

the intersting and unfortunately sad thing about it is that people will not find it in the bible and therefore have to reach out for the writings of EGW, outsiders will naturally frown upon it...

no, honestly, the problem with EGW is that people consider her writings as truth no matter what, so if one was to show truth from the bible it will not be reconized as such. SDAs will think its a devils plot, twisting scripture in order to lead them away from truth. such a thinking can result in a terrible mindset....

 

[Stryder06]

SDA's are taught to proclaim the message, to proseletyze others into their new found faith. Is it that surprising that some people might actually use their brain and question certain things??

You know, Lucifer "used his brain" and questioned a few things. We see where that got him...

 

[JohnMarsten]

You know, Lucifer "used his brain" and questioned a few things. We see where that got him...

did I or our brother question the bible or a few other things that, as you might even acknowledge, are a bit weird?

 

[k4c]

I don't believe the things ellen white has to say so I consider myself a 7th day Christian.. I don't want to be tied to her and stuff like this.


Had Adventists, after the great disappointment in 1844, held fast their faith ... receiving the message and proclaiming it to the world, they would have seen the salvation of God, the Lord would have wrought mightily with their efforts, the work would have been completed, and Christ would have come ere this to receive his people to their reward ... it was not the will of God the coming of Christ should be thus delayed." (Selected Messages, Book 1, p. 68)

"If they will be faithful in bringing to His treasury the means lent them, His work will make rapid advancement. Many souls will be won to the truth and the day of Christ's coming will be hastened." (Counsels on Stewardship p. 45)​

The Bible says, "He hath appointed a day to judge the world." (Acts 17:3)​

Hebrews 10:37; "For yet a little while and he that shall come will come and will not tarry.

"God cannot take the slave to heaven, who has been kept in ignorance and degradation, knowing nothing of God, or the Bible, fearing nothing but his master's lash, and not holding so elevated a position as his master's brute beasts. But he does the best thing for him that a compassionate God can do. He lets him be as though he had not been. (Spiritual Gifts Vol. 1, p. 193)


this is just absurd..

"After the flood everything had been destroyed upon which man could subsist, and therefore, the Lord in their necessity gave Noah the permission to eat the clean animals which he had taken with him into the ark." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 121)

this is also absurd.. i don't believe for 1 second that god could create heaven and earth and everything on it in 6 days and not provide noah with appropriate food at the end of a flood that he caused.. more to the point paul said meat is to be taken with thanksgiving not "not fed to children" as she also states... when jesus fed the 5300 with the fish i bet there were some children getting that meat..​

In discussing tithing in the Review andHerald, November 10th, 1896, Mrs. White said:​

"Let none feel at liberty to retain their tithe to use according to their own judgment. They are not to apply it as they see fit ... A minister should not feel that he can apply it according to his own judgment."
​

​

Ten years later in a letter written to Elder George Watson in January, 1906, Mrs. White wrote,

"it has been presented to me for years that my tithe is to be appropriated by myself … It is a matter that should not be commented upon; for it will necessitate my making known these matters which I do not desire to do ... For years there have been persons who have lost confidence in appropriation of the tithe but have placed their tithe in my hands ... I write this to you so that you shall keep cool and not become stirred up, lest more shall follow their example". Again we see her contradicting her own counsel while supposedly under the guidance of God.
​

Concerning this contradiction, one of her sons, W. C. White, wrote

"The letter was written by my mother and duplicated and a copy was sent, very unwisely I believe, to my brother. I am very sorry that the letter was written."
​

Ellen White even admitted to contradicting herself at times:

"What appeared in testimony 11 concerning the health institute should not have been given ... I yielded my judgment to that of others … in this I did wrong."
​

​

The question immediately comes up, how could she yield her judgment to that of others when God has indicated to her what she should write? Her original testimony began with "I was shown"! Obviously, one of the testimonials has to be an error. But they were both supposedly written under the guise of divine inspiration.

His countenance did not wear an expression of grief and repining, but ever one of peaceful serenity." (Steps to Christ, p. 120) Here we are told that Jesus' face always appeared peaceful and serene. What sort of expression do you think was on His face when He wept over Jerusalem? What did His face look like during His cleansing of the temple when He was overturning the money changers' tables? Can you imagine the look of anguish on His face in the Garden of Gethsemane? Then picture the scene on the cross begging forgiveness for His executioners; giving His mother into the custody of apostle John. Imagine the tortured look when He cried out, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Why does Mrs. White try to paint a false picture of Jesus? Isn't He well known as the 'man of sorrows'? There is no doubt that Jesus had the 'peace of God', but to describe His facial expression as above is nonsensical. If you believe that statement you have to ask yourself the question, did He really come and suffer for me?​

"Hope did not present to Him His coming forth from the grave a conqueror or tell him of the Father's acceptance of the sacrifice. He feared that sin was so offensive to God that their separation was to be eternal." (Desire of Ages p. 664)
​

thats absurd if he truly believed this he woudln't of told the apostles he would die and be rise from the dead​

Then there appears against the sky a hand holding two tables of stone folded together ... The hand opens the tables and there are seen the precepts of the decalog traced as with a pen of fire." (Great Controversy, p. 560) In another vision describing the Ten Commandments as seen in heaven, Mrs. White wrote, "In the ark was the golden pot of manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of stone which folded together like a book. Jesus opened them, and I saw the Ten Commandments written on them with the finger of God. On one table were four and on the other six." (Christian Experience and Teachings of E. G. White, p. 91)​

Exodus 32:15 describes the Ten Commandments written on both sides of both tables of stone​

Let us now look at another blatant Bible contradiction. We find, "True knowledge has decreased with every successive generation." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 4, p. 154) This does not agree with a real prophet that is a favorite of many of us. We find in Daniel 11:4, "Even to the time of the end, many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."​

In Desire of Ages, Chapter 20, p. 404, Mrs. White says that the Pharisees were convicted of their sins by reading what Jesus had written in the dust. John 8:9 however, gives a different picture. "And they which heard it being convicted by their own conscience"​

"I was shown the company present at the conference. Said the angel, 'Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus.' (Testimonies, Vol. 1, p. 131)
​

All these people are dead: none of them went through the seven plagues; and none were translated to heaven.
​

this is just some of the non sense i can't tolerate
​

I believe the convictions you are having are of the Holy Spirit.

The SDA have a lot of truth (more than others) but with that truth comes a lot of baggage that must be sorted through and unpacked.

God tells us not to dispise prophecy but to test what is said and hold on to that which is good. This means there will be some things that are kept and some things that will be discarded. The problem comes when the words of the one doing the prophecying are exalted and esteemed to that of Scripture itself, even thought they contradict the Scriptures. When a contradiction of Scripture is spoken by a prophet, no matter how slight, one must always revert to the Scriptures and not to the prophet. This is not something easily done in the SDA.

One last thing. You are not a 7th day Christian, you are a Christian...period. A true disciple of Christ will been seen by the love one has for God and others. In this love we will see them keeping the seventh day holy, not commiting adultery, not stealing and so on but we will also see a lot more than just keeping the Ten Commandments because the TC are just the ground floor of what godly love really is.

 

[help_the_lord]

​

I believe the convictions you are having are of the Holy Spirit.

The SDA have a lot of truth (more than others) but with that truth comes a lot of baggage that must be sorted through and unpacked.

God tells us not to dispise prophecy but to test what is said and hold on to that which is good. This means there will be some things that are kept and some things that will be discarded. The problem comes when the words of the one doing the prophecying are exalted and esteemed to that of Scripture itself, even thought they contradict the Scriptures. When a contradiction of Scripture is spoken by a prophet, no matter how slight, one must always revert to the Scriptures and not the prophet. This is not something easily done in the SDA.

One last thing. You are not a 7th day Christian, you are a Christian...period. A true disciple of Christ will been seen by the love one has for God and others. In this love we will see them keeping the seventh day holy, not commiting adultery, not stealing and so on but we will also see a lot more for the Ten Commandments are just the ground floor of what godly love really is.

well spoken

 

[k4c]

well spoken

Truth is truth...

 

[Stryder06]

did I or our brother question the bible or a few other things that, as you might even acknowledge, are a bit weird?

Didn't say you did, of course I don't know what you hold as doctrine so I can't say for sure that you don't.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Didn't say you did, of course I don't know what you hold as doctrine so I can't say for sure that you don't.

Sure you dont... at the moment I am quite open minded towards the word doctrine. I dont believe in absolute truth, absolute interpretation and stuff.

Everything is relative. When you think about how christian have behave (not just the RC CHurch) but in general I believe that one can be easily misled.

I have had lots experience in my short life and know that there is lots manipulation going on. Probably in all churches and denoms. You have pastors preaching water and later you have them drinking wine. If one is a member of a denom he or she is inclined to believing the whole package, which is dangerous. It is generally hard to stand up and swim against the current.

As for me I need to have it in the bible, and more so, it must be PLAIN without double meaning

 

[JohnMarsten]

You know, Lucifer "used his brain" and questioned a few things. We see where that got him...

btw what I have experienced many times is the fact that SDA apply a certain kind of measuring rod towards other denoms, requiring them to question things and accept for granted what they had been taught.

Now, if one applies the same rod to the SDA he or she will be frowned upon, like it is truth but cannot question it. like This is truth no matter what...

 

[OntheDL]

btw what I have experienced many times is the fact that SDA apply a certain kind of measuring rod towards other denoms, requiring them to question things and accept for granted what they had been taught.

Now, if one applies the same rod to the SDA he or she will be frowned upon, like it is truth but cannot question it. like This is truth no matter what...

Are you talking about the SDA forum here or the SDA churches in real life?

The sad truth is that most of the SDA members don't study what they believe. They take words from others as gospel. Most (the vast majority) can't defend our position on the prophetic interpretations and the sanctuary, very much the same as the mainstream Christians on their beliefs of rapture and the immortal soul.

On the other hands, those who have studied the SDA beliefs diligently don't mind the scrutiny from critics. Take myself for example, my faith in our message is strengthened because I have been exposed to the scrutiny and have been forced to examine from many angles. I have to thank all of the critics/detractors over the years. They surely did their job. So we are not afraid of questions. We just don't like repeating and answering the same questions to different people all the time.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Are you talking about the SDA forum here or the SDA churches in real life?

The sad truth is that most of the SDA members don't study what they believe. They take words from others as gospel. Most (the vast majority) can't defend our position on the prophetic interpretations and the sanctuary, very much the same as the mainstream Christians on their beliefs of rapture and the immortal soul.

On the other hands, those who have studied the SDA beliefs diligently don't mind the scrutiny from critics. Take myself for example, my faith in our message is strengthened because I have been exposed to the scrutiny and have been forced to examine from many angles. I have to thank all of the critics/detractors over the years. They surely did their job. So we are not afraid of questions. We just don't like repeating and answering the same questions to different people all the time.

Well said.... I have been blessed by the questions brought into this forum. I has caused me to be more of a Berean than a Laodician.