I need an answer to a tough question.

[countrymousenc]

Some of you know that I'm between churches, and I just had an experience today that tells me, I think, that the church I've been visiting is not where God is calling me. When I look at the choices I have left (including Orthodox), knowing what I know, they involve going to a church that does not share the Lord's Supper with anyone from other Christian traditions. That is what bothers me most. I can understand not "being in communion" with other Christian institutions who disagree on a matter of dogma, but refusing their members who might want to go to church with an Orthodox friend they're visiting? It's not up to me to tell any church what to do, and I wouldn't dare try to do that. But this really bothers me. I couldn't bring myself to tell Christian friends that they aren't Christian and don't know Christ, especially when I see God's grace in their lives. I don't know what to do.

 

[LuxPerpetua]

I feel the same way, Countrymousenc, and this is my sole reservation against Orthodoxy at the moment. I'm very interested in reading the replies you'll get to this thread. Thanks for posting!

 

[tizziale]

I'm interested in the answers you receive as well, but here's my thoughts. I attend a Protestant church. I haven't received communion in three years. It's not that they haven't had the Lord's Supper, it's just that they only do it once a year, and my family travels at that time. Once a year . . . anyway. . . . To me, a body of believers that take the Lord's Supper seriously is something I desire. It is to be honored and it is to be reverered. And we are encouraged as believers to be of one mind - and I believe the Supper taken with like-minded believers - alike in doctrine, alike in what you honor and respect.

My .02

 

[Nickolai]

We take the Eucharist very seriously.

One reaosn we do closed communion is that we only believe people in the Body of Christ should partake of it. We as Orthodox Believe that all Orthodox Persons are in that Body. We have no way of knowing if a non-Orthodox is a part of it. We don't want someone to sin because they partake of the Body and Blood of our savior without being in the Body. So we Generalize it, and don't let Non-Orthodox people take it. A Preist is also allowed to deny an Orthodox Person is he knows that that person has not asked forgivness of his/her sins, or is quarelling with his/her neighbor.

There's other reasons but this is the Least Theological and Easy for anyone to understand.

 

[MariaRegina]

I feel the same way, Countrymousenc, and this is my sole reservation against Orthodoxy at the moment. I'm very interested in reading the replies you'll get to this thread. Thanks for posting!

Dear Lux and Countrymouse:

I had the same problem when I became a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. I deeply desired to receive Holy Communion and this was the first time in my life in which I could not receive. It was so difficult that I almost left the catechumenate. I too didn't know what to do.

Then my priest told me to contact a former Anglican Priest who had converted to Orthodoxy. That priest, as an Anglican, strongly believed in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. When he converted to Orthodoxy, he had to wait from 6 months to two years before he could receive Holy Communion for the first time as an Orthodox Christian at his chrismation .. I cannot remember how long ... but to him it seemed like an eternity.

So, I asked him, how did you patiently wait ... he told me that he read the lives of the Saints and that the lives of the Holy Martyrs of Russia were very inspiring. During Communist Russia, many priests and nuns were sent to Siberia where they could not attend Liturgy nor celebrate the Divine Liturgy. In their darkest hours God became very real to them. You gotta have faith. ... lots and lots of Faith. Their faith in Jesus Christ, their love for Him, gave them the courage to trust in God and they were blessed.

Then I studied the life of St. Mary of Egypt who was a harlot. She was prevented from entering the Church and recognized her sinful life as a barrier to Christ. Repenting of her sins, she entered the desert for at least 30 years where she prayed and fasted for her sins and overcame her passions. St. Zozima was sent by God to bring Holy Communion to her before she died -- her first Holy Communion in more than 30 years. God provided her with the Holy Eucharist -- and she died almost immediately after receiving our Lord.

After talking to that Priest, I realized that not receiving Holy Communion was a blessing -- I was not worthy -- I needed to repent and wait on God. St. Paul warns us that many people are sick and some have died because they are not properly discerning the Body of Christ. Holy communion can never be taken for granted.

However, you can always ask our Lord to come into your heart in what is called "spiritual communion."

At the Divine Liturgy, I watch as the members receive the Body of Christ. I feel Christ's Presence all around me as we become united in Christ's Body and Blood. This is something you can do -- you can rejoice in Christ's presence.

Holy Communion is worth waiting and preparing for... This is the real presence of the Sacred Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. Every Holy Communion should be received as if it is going to be our last. It should be received with faith and love and with proper awe.

The Latin Catholics also make converts wait -- anywhere from 6 months up to 2 or 3 years, depending on the RCIA director. Signs of true faith: faith, hope, love, humility, patience, obedience, joyfulness, etc. The early church also looked for the gifts of the Holy Spirit before baptizing anyone in the faith.

Hope this helps.

Elizabeth

 

[NewToLife]

As a recent convert myself, I will not be able to receive communion until Pascha eve when I will become a full member of the church by confession and chrismation. However I am offered part of the blessed bread at the end of the liturgy and have found Orthodox to be extremely welcoming, visitors to our church are for instance always invited to remain with us for a shared meal after the liturgy, I have never been made to feel like an outsider within Orthodoxy, rather the opposite in fact.

I will leave theological explanations to those with more experience than myself but just wanted to assure you that in my experience the Orthodox refusal to commune those who are not themselves Orthodox should not be mistaken for a closed or unwelcoming attitude it is simply a result of the serious approach that the Orthodox have to the Eucharist.

 

[countrymousenc]

I really appreciate your responses, very much. It's beginning to make sense, what with the responses I saw in PRE and here.

Well, another question popped into my head. As an Orthodox Christian, when you are away from your home church, are you allowed to participate in Divine Liturgy in other Orthodox churches? How would the priest know that you are Orthodox and that you have confessed and are ready?

 

[Oblio]

As Nickolai said, and it bears repeating, we as Orthodox are not making a judgement on your standing with God by practicing closed Communion. Nor do we wish to exclude you or make you feel as an outsider. Please understand that those who partake of the Holy Feast desire with all their hearts and look forward to the day when you too will receive the Eucharist with them as a member of His Holy Orthodox Church.

 

[ChoirDir]

Well, another question popped into my head. As an Orthodox Christian, when you are away from your home church, are you allowed to participate in Divine Liturgy in other Orthodox churches? How would the priest know that you are Orthodox and that you have confessed and are ready?

I usually make a phone call to the parish priest ahead of liturgy to tell him I am visiting the area. They will usually ask what is your home parish and may even check with your home priest. I have never had a problem receiving in a church I was visiting

 

[Suzannah]

Dear countrymouse and LuxPerpetua,
I have a slightly different personal perspective regarding this, completely aside from the theological Orthodox position.

During my life I have been in many Protestant churches where I chose, on my own, not to partake with them, in "Communion". Why? It was open to me, and I could have it if I wanted it?

If I was simply a visitor in that church, here was my reasoning for choosing not to participate: How do I know what these people really believe? How do I know there isn't a wild eyed fanatic with wierd, non-Christian views preparing this bread and pouring this wine and "blessing" it??

I have never taken Communion in a church where I was not a member, where I did not know clearly and explicity what they believed and was in at least agreement with their "essentials", and where I did not know the pastor personally.

i have even attended in the past, LDS (Mormon) services and there especially, did I refuse to "partake". When approaching this issue, we must be very sure that we are in full agreement with the church we are in, before we participate in ANY of their activities, most especially Communion or in this case, the Eucharist. This is for our own protection. Even when I was a Protestant, and even when I viewed it as "symbolic" and not as the "Real Presence", I was very careful in how I approached this part of Christianity.

I have never once regretted any decision I have ever made regarding any times in my life, when I participated in Communion in any Protestant church. On the other hand, I have known Protestants who have told me "Oh no ! I found out that that church didn't really believe in the Trinity! And I took communion with them, and worshipped with them...eeek"

 

[Momzilla]

Suzannah, thanks for sharing your perspective--I had never thought of it that way.

 

[LuxPerpetua]

Hmmm. I've grown up in a Protestant church and communion was and is taken *very* seriously. In my church communion is viewed with *extreme* reverance and that is explained before the Eucharist elements are distributed. You are told that this meal is only for baptized believers and even then believers are only to partake of communion if they have made their hearts right with God. The elements are handled very respectfully and prayed over by the ministers. Our church had communion services twice a year, and these were announced ahead of time and were very serious services since we were participating fully in the sacrifice of Christ. I've never been to a church that allowed open communion (in the sense of allowing non-believers to participate) or took the Eucharist lightly. I can understand the Orthodox position, though. But, are Catholics allowed communion?

 

[Oblio]

But, are Catholics allowed communion?

No

 

[Orthosdoxa]

Understanding the Body and Blood - to be the Body and Blood, not just some symbol - the priest has an awfully heavy responsibility. God forbid he distribute something so precious and sacred- His Very Body, which unites all Orthodox Christians as One Body - to someone who was "not worthy", whether for denying the true nature of the Sacrament, for mocking it, for being heavy in unrepentant sin, whatever. If someone is a visitor to that parish, the priest has no way of knowing where they've come from. He has a responsibility to that person's soul. St. Paul has warned us what can happen.

Myself, my priest has written me a letter that I am in good standing, and I also usually try to call ahead if I will be visiting somewhere.

And no, Catholics are not allowed communion. They are not in the Church. And they say we are allowed communion in their churches, but it doesn't happen - we are forbidden by our Bishops.

And I'd also like to echo was NewToLife said about feeling welcome - during my two years as an inquirer/catechumen, someone ALWAYS brought me some blessed bread, and I was always made to feel very welcome and loved.

 

[Boanerge]

In My Church its the same thing like luxperpetua. However My Pastor would not give communion at all if she doesn't not feel that the whole church as a whole is not right with God and in accord with each other. Of couse my pastor can because my church is extremely small. Taking Holy Communion is like being apart of Jesus Christ's body, if you know that you are not living according to how God wills, then by taking the Eucharist we are only decieving ourselves. Aslo if by taking the Eucharist and you are in disagreement of the beliefs of this church you are visiting, then the same things applies.. You are eating or being a part of a body that you do not agree with, then you only decieve yourself. (I am assuming Holy Communion and Eucharist are the same things.)

I am not sure if people of other churches have joined in communion with us, But i believe there have been visiters who we know for a long time, who visit us constantly, hey have joined. But those who have joined i noticed that they share our views in everything.

But most importantly, the one thing that really would stop us from partaking in the Communion is our walk with God. It would be a shame to join communion, which is like saying "Lord, i want to be a part of you.", and after taking the Communion, in your everyday life, not one mention of the Lord ever escapes your mouth. Communion is like making a promise to God to make him a part of your life, but if you are not going to put your part of the promise then you might as not take it until you are ready.

The Bread is rememberance of what Christ did for you.. and the Wine is what you can do because of what He did, and this is fuel for the spirit. This is why we need it. But it also reminds us to repent, be humbled and have reverence in the presence of the Lord. It's an amazing event for the Christian.

So if you are in agreement With the Church and, Materialistically speaking, the church you are attending or visiting; and want to have the Lord as a part of your Life, and are willing to preach the Gospel through words and actions; and have repented and humbled yourself, then the Holy Supper is there to give your spirit strength. The one thing i would never want to take for granted or eat for nothing.

The Holy Supper is for the whole body of members because the Holy Supper is the Body of Christ and the Church is considered the Body of Christ. And to part take of the body of Christ its only clear to be in accord with the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ is not a Church Building but the Church members. Why? Because the Building isn't what gives the Church Life, its the Members within it. And God is a Living God therefore Holy Supper is for the Members of a Church. When my pastor didn't give holy Supper because she felt the whole church was not in accord with Christ, she took that time to help us see what is holding us down, what would be stopping us from being one with Christ, Just like taking the Holy Supper, this also was a special moment. The Holy Supper is to remember who Christ is in our lives, and what are we to be doing as members of His Body. its not just for the priests and creating a divided event, its for the whole church unified and in one accord.

This is my understanding of the Holy Supper.

 

[countrymousenc]

Good point, Suzannah. I have never happened to be in a church when holy communion was celebrated and I didn't know the church's beliefs, except once, when I thought that I did know. When I found out later about this church (actually, about its bishop), well, eeek, as you said.

And thank you both, also, ChoirDir and Oblio.

Incidentally, I took a drive this morning to that OCA mission church; it took 40 minutes, only a few minutes longer than where I've been visiting. Still praying about it.

May God bless you all,
Dianne

 

[Suzannah]

Well, I just had to do a lot of visiting because as a sailor, I was often at sea for up to a year at a time and in foriegn ports....I often waited till I was home after a contract and went to my own "home" church, so this was just my own policy...and how I looked at it...