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I Mean No Disrespect!!!

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QuestionMark?

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Before Reading this post you must know that I mean NO DISRESPECT. I really don't care what you believe in and I'm tolerant of all faiths as long as they don't intend to harm anyone. I just have questions...
First of all, let me start off by telling you that I'm agnostic. I come from a Christian family and in this past year I've done some questioning and when I ask people for answers they tell me to read the bible and it just leads to more questions. The biggest question that I have is how can I be absolutely sure that there is a god? If you tell me "It says it in the bible" Then I ask you, How can I be sure that the bible is true? What gives the bible any more veracity than any other religious ancient scriptures. Then there's the statement "Well we all got here some how." Ya but how do we know it was this god that you speak of? I'm really sorry if I offended anyone and I don't mean to "stir things up." I'm just really in need of answers.:confused:
 
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Marie Lynn

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Hi Question mark,
I too am listed as agnostic, and have come from a christian background, so I just wanted to say that I think it is good to question what we have been taught.
I do not think your post is disrespectful at all, and hardly offensive.
I do not presume to have any answers, all I can say for now is that I go off of faith that there is a God who created us all. Since leaving christianity, my first avenue is searching the Tanack.
 
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buzzini

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If you can love, you can do good things, you feel the joy of helping others, then your life is linked to God, despite you do not know Him. For He has the ownership of all absolute Good. There is no other Good but Him, hence your life and joy actually is linked to Him.

We are but receptacles. We are given free will to receive either good or evil. When we do good, it is only the good that flow thru us by our connection to God. But when we turn our joy toward selfishness, then we cut off from God and is in evil. In the end, there is no neutral state in a man, for one is either evil or good. because that is also the essence of our inner person. Our choice to choose good or evil is set when we die.
 
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Catherineanne

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Ya but how do we know it was this god that you speak of? I'm really sorry if I offended anyone and I don't mean to "stir things up." I'm just really in need of answers.:confused:

I think it was Anselm, but I could be wrong, who said, "God is that, greater than which we cannot conceive."

If the existence of such a being makes sense to you, then fine. If it does not, then you cannot manufacture belief out of nowhere, or from other people's faith.

In the latter case I would say, don't worry about it. God has a way of making himself known, in his own time. :wave:
 
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Webers_Home

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RE: I'm agnostic.

Webster's defines an agnostic as: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; viz: an agnostic is somebody who neither affirms nor denies the existence of a supreme being.

The holy grail of agnosticism is of course empirical evidence; which Webster's defines as: capable of being verified, or disproved, by observation or experiment.

RE: how can I be absolutely sure that there is a god?

Nobel Prize winner John Nash was once asked if he believed the universe was infinite. He replied Yes. When asked why he believed the universe was infinite, when there is no way to conclusively prove that it is, he replied; "Because all the data suggests it."

Mr. Nash wasn't absolutely sure the universe is infinite, but was open to the possibility because he could not prove it isn't. My point is, when an agnostic asks a question like "how can I be absolutely sure that there is a god" they must also ask the opposite: How can I be absolutely sure there isn't a God?

Mr. Nash said "all the data suggests it". Well, following his lead, I would have to say there is abundant data all around you every day "suggesting" the existence of a God: from the tiniest microbe to the largest galaxy— the balance, the harmony, the variety, and the boundless energy binding all of nature together, strongly suggests the existence of a creative genius.

Along with nature— with all of its forms of life, energy, and matter —the human heart has a built-in intuition that tells it there is a supreme being. The average person instinctively knows there is something beyond themselves. Atheists and agnostics feel it too; but ignore those feelings and debate within themselves in a futile attempt to suppress their own conscience and make the supernatural go away. Like a girl who hates boys, resolved never to respond to masculine charms; the atheist and the agnostic live in an abnormal state of mind, enduring a perpetual fight against nature: thus numbering themselves among the other totally self-absorbed people who resolutely look beyond themselves for nothing.

Atheists and agnostics are neurotic, mixed up people. Their minds are tormented with inner conflicts caused from suppressing the voice of their own conscience. They instinctively know there is a supreme being out there somewhere, but think it unsophisticated to acknowledge one. It's sort of like prissy people acting as if sexual passion were below them— exhibited by only the very basest of carnal hominids —the meanwhile, underneath that façade of propriety, the prissy is literally dying inside with longing to do something naughty with somebody.

When the mind and the heart are going separate ways; it can only result in a sort of self induced schizophrenia. It must be tough to be at war with one's own self all the time. Atheists and agnostics are not to be admired; no, they are to be pitied as sailors adrift on a fickle sea of flexible truths in a leaky boat with neither a compass nor chart, nor any means of propulsion or steering; the meanwhile gnawing on their own flesh to survive.

David wrote that fools say in themselves there is no God. The Hebrew word for fool is nabal (naw-bawl') which means: stupid.

†. Rom 1:19-23 . . For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities— his eternal power and divine nature —have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became insipid.

Webster's defines insipid as: lacking in qualities that interest, stimulate, or challenge; i.e. lacking sufficient taste or savor to please or interest; viz: dull and bland. In other words; atheists and agnostics about as appetizing as a meal consisting of cardboard and recycled paper.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
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Zechariah

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Before Reading this post you must know that I mean NO DISRESPECT. I really don't care what you believe in and I'm tolerant of all faiths as long as they don't intend to harm anyone. I just have questions...
First of all, let me start off by telling you that I'm agnostic. I come from a Christian family and in this past year I've done some questioning and when I ask people for answers they tell me to read the bible and it just leads to more questions. The biggest question that I have is how can I be absolutely sure that there is a god? If you tell me "It says it in the bible" Then I ask you, How can I be sure that the bible is true? What gives the bible any more veracity than any other religious ancient scriptures. Then there's the statement "Well we all got here some how." Ya but how do we know it was this god that you speak of? I'm really sorry if I offended anyone and I don't mean to "stir things up." I'm just really in need of answers.:confused:

Would I be correct if I were to conclude that, if there is a God, you would want to know it? Would I be correct if I were to conclude that if there is a God and he has spoken to men through prophets and apostles, that if what they've written down is the word of God, then you would want to know that too?

If so, I would encourage you to study the scriptures and to ask God. First, we gain much wisdom by the study of scripture, so we should not discount that as an important component in our search for answers. One simple example of the wisdom we can gain, is this:
James 1: 5-6
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

If there is a God, and one wants to know if he exists, who better to ask than God himself?

Now, I can understand that the person who may be unsure, and questioning the reality of God, might have a little difficultly with the idea of asking God if he exists. One might think, if God doesn't exist, what good would it do to study about him and to pray to him?

But, surely, even in that uncertainty, you can reason that if there is a God who created you, then that God knows you, and if the scriptures are true, then, as they say, God also loves you. So I'm sure you can at least then reason that, if there is a God who created you, and loves you, that you can trust him to help you in your study, and answer your sincere prayers, in your search to find out if those things are true.


Other people can't show you that God exists. But God can. Others can't convince you that the scriptures are the word of God. But God can.

If you really want the answers to those things, it's God who can give them to you. Just be open minded, sincere, willing to study, willing to pray to God and ask. And also be patient as you await his answers, since God's way is usually to teach us truths line upon line, precept upon precept, as we are able to understand them and willing to accept them.
 
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norswede

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Before Reading this post you must know that I mean NO DISRESPECT. I really don't care what you believe in and I'm tolerant of all faiths as long as they don't intend to harm anyone. I just have questions...
First of all, let me start off by telling you that I'm agnostic. I come from a Christian family and in this past year I've done some questioning and when I ask people for answers they tell me to read the bible and it just leads to more questions. The biggest question that I have is how can I be absolutely sure that there is a god? If you tell me "It says it in the bible" Then I ask you, How can I be sure that the bible is true? What gives the bible any more veracity than any other religious ancient scriptures. Then there's the statement "Well we all got here some how." Ya but how do we know it was this god that you speak of? I'm really sorry if I offended anyone and I don't mean to "stir things up." I'm just really in need of answers.:confused:


All I can say to you is How do you feel about it? Have you tried praying to God and pouring your heart out to him and telling him your doubts? If you're looking for solid evidence for the existence of God, then you will waste your life looking. There can never be solid evidence for something spiritual but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just means that it's not tangible. Millions of people have experienced God in one way or another and from these experiences, they know that he is real. You just have to turn to God with an open heart and mind and believe the signs that he gives you. Remember that he works through the spirit. You may have a dream, the next day you might run into someone who starts up a conversation with you about God, a verse might come to your mind and when you look it up it answers your question (this has happened to me many times.) or you might simply be overcome with emotion and just know in your heart it is true. There are many ways that God speaks to us, but not one of them will you be able to get a scientist to recognize. Some people, no matter how many signs they receive, they waste their lives trying to find proof. If you are sincere, I promise you God will reveal himself to you in his own way. Just remember:

What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them goes astray does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should parish. Matt.18:12-14
 
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MattLangley

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Before Reading this post you must know that I mean NO DISRESPECT. I really don't care what you believe in and I'm tolerant of all faiths as long as they don't intend to harm anyone. I just have questions...
First of all, let me start off by telling you that I'm agnostic. I come from a Christian family and in this past year I've done some questioning and when I ask people for answers they tell me to read the bible and it just leads to more questions. The biggest question that I have is how can I be absolutely sure that there is a god? If you tell me "It says it in the bible" Then I ask you, How can I be sure that the bible is true? What gives the bible any more veracity than any other religious ancient scriptures. Then there's the statement "Well we all got here some how." Ya but how do we know it was this god that you speak of? I'm really sorry if I offended anyone and I don't mean to "stir things up." I'm just really in need of answers.:confused:

I would recommend two books (this order as well):

Meetings Jesus Again for the First Time
Reading the Bible Again for the First Time
both by Marcus Borg

In the first book Borg addresses the historical Jesus as well as what this means to a Christian (as well as a type of Christianity that isn't exclusive to other religions)... The second book takes this approach towards the entire Bible (Old Testament and New Testament).
 
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OzSpen

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QuestionMark,

You wrote:
“The biggest question that I have is how can I be absolutely sure that there is a god? If you tell me "It says it in the bible" Then I ask you, How can I be sure that the bible is true? What gives the bible any more veracity than any other religious ancient scriptures. Then there's the statement "Well we all got here some how." Ya but how do we know it was this god that you speak of? I'm really sorry if I offended anyone and I don't mean to "stir things up." I'm just really in need of answers”
I am a committed Christian believer because I, like you, am a questioner of what I have been taught. How is it that I, after my questioning, have come through as a thoroughly convinced believer and you are currently an agnostic?

Let me ask, are you a soft-boiled agnostic or a hard-boiled agnostic? By soft-boiled, I mean that you are honestly open to the evidence provided and you will examine it thoroughly and will conclude where it leads.

By a hard-boiled agnostic, I mean that you are on the edge of atheism and not much of the evidence that anybody provides will influence you towards considering the things of God.

Let me pick up just one of your points. You say that your “biggest question” relates to being “absolutely sure that there is a god.” I am not convinced that anybody on this forum will be able to provide you with evidence that makes you “absolutely sure” that God exists.

If you are interested in evidence beyond reasonable doubt, we can discuss further.
Are your a soft- or hard-boiled agnostic?

Are you prepared to consider the defenses for the various arguments for the existence and nature of God by Dr. William Lane Craig?
 
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Webers_Home

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RE: I don't think any of us is absolutely 100% sure of anything. That's why we call it faith.

What that describes is not the Bible's kind of faith, but rather, the power of positive thinking.

Bible faith contains the components of confidence and assurance.

†. Heb 11:1 . .What is faith? It is the confident assurance that what we anticipate is going to happen.

Note the author's use of the words "confident assurance"

Assent to the truthfulness of facts and/or statements does not qualify as faith in those facts and statements when the elements of confidence and assurance are absent from one's assent.

†. 1Pet 3:15 . . Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.

The New Testament Greek word for hope in Peter's mandate is elpis (el-pece') which means to anticipate (usually with pleasure); and to expect with confidence. Note the elements of anticipation, expectation, and confidence. So then, the kind of hope Peter was talking about is not a hope-so hope, but rather, a know-so hope. Hope that lacks anticipation, confidence, and assurance is no hope at all: it's just wishful thinking.

Anticipation can be defined as: looking forward to something fully expecting it to happen.

The million dollar question is: how does somebody obtain that kind of faith?

†. John 3:31 . .he has come from heaven. He tells what he has seen and heard, but how few believe what he tells them! Those who believe him discover that God is real.

It's one thing to read God exists, and to be told God exists, and to believe God exists; but it's quite entirely another to discover that He's real. Lots of people will tell you they believe the Bible's God is real, but they have yet to discover for themselves that He's real.

Bible faith begins with belief, which is then reinforced by discovery; subsequently resulting in confidence and assurance. When Christians lack confidence and assurance in their beliefs it's simply because they have not yet made any significant spiritual discoveries on their own; and the single most important discovery they can possibly make is the experience of a personal communication from the Bible's God.

†. Rom 8:16 . .The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

While reading Mother Teresa / Come Be My Light by Father Brian Kolodiejchuk, and Mother Teresa's Crisis of Faith by David Van Biema for a Thursday, Aug. 23, 2007 article in Time Magazine; it became very obvious to me that God's Spirit never once took the trouble to assure Teresa that she was right with the Bible's God and that there was a place all prepared and waiting for her in His home.

Teresa's public image bore no resemblance whatsoever to her private thoughts. Teresa secretly confided in spiritual advisors that she seriously doubted that her religion's God even existed. That poor woman operated the whole five decades in India on blind faith; which is a kind of faith totally void of the elements of confidence and assurance.

In the final weeks of her life, Teresa became severally distraught that, if there is a God, she was afraid He didn't like her and might, in fact, be quite disposed to condemn her. That poor woman suffered so much anxiety that in the final weeks of her life it finally drove her to agree to undergo an exorcism— performed in 1997 by Father Rosario Stroscio, arranged by the Archbishop of Calcutta, Henry D'Souza —if perchance demons were clouding her mind. I don't know about you, but in my opinion, an exemplary nun like Mother Teresa should not be receiving exorcisms, but rather, performing them.

Should agnostics pray for assurances from God? No. Forget it. Agnostics are, by definition, vacillating; and according to Jas 1:5-8, the Bible's God has no interest in vacillators.

†. Heb 11:6 . .Without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists.

Note the locations of the words impossible and must.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
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DrBubbaLove

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I think deep down we all know what we are and the evil we are, each one of us, capable of. As rational beings we can say what we will about God, but if we are honest we want Him to be Real because the alternative scares us. If there is no God, then we are each gods of our own destiny and that should at the very least make us uneasy because deep down we do not trust ourselves with our own fate.

We need God and He placed in each of us an inborn desire to know Him. I think many of us mistake that desire for something else or misdirect it towards something else, which becomes our god. My 2cents.
 
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simonthezealot

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how can I be absolutely sure that there is a god?
See Him for yourself, have a one to one conversation with Him and seek Him by asking Him to reveal Himself to you in both big and small ways over the next week...Then take some time each day and debvote it to reading a Psalm and a proverb and maybe a few other random scriptures...Be alert and you will soon know there is a God...It takes a sincere desire of seeking His face my friend!
 
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OzSpen

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Simonthezealot,
Question Mark asked you:
how can I be absolutely sure that there is a god?
Your response was:
See Him for yourself, have a one to one conversation with Him and seek Him by asking Him to reveal Himself to you in both big and small ways over the next week...Then take some time each day and debvote it to reading a Psalm and a proverb and maybe a few other random scriptures...Be alert and you will soon know there is a God...It takes a sincere desire of seeking His face my friend!
This doesn't work biblically for God says,
And without faith it is impossible to please him [God], fo rwoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him (Heb. 11:6 ESV).
If somebody does not know of the existence of God, God says that he cannot seek Him. Therefore, providing evidence beyond reasonable doubt (not absolute proof) of God's existence is a worthwhile apologetic ministry to those who have doubts.
 
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simonthezealot

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Well if he believes and is looking to be absolute then the latter part of the verse explains the end result...

for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him (Heb. 11:6 ESV).
 
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