I loathe rap music, however:

[Orange Kitten Bob]

If you show me Christian rap that is in line with the New Testament, then I shall exempt Christian rap from my loathing of rap music.

 

[Touma]

S.O.


S.O. - I Am (feat. shai linne) - YouTube

 

[DCatalyst]

there's plenty if you are willing to find it... but I would like to know what exactly you mean by in line with the NT.. i know i'm not from your denomination but i saw this roll up on the new posts page and had to come see.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RUciHVpCbw

 

[LantanaAnna]

I don't like rap music either. It just doesn't feel spiritual and reverent, but thats just an opinion..

 

[Geoff m]

my mate is a rapper - he calls it poetry. I can't stand it. In my opinion it just promotes criminal behavior

 

[The Conductor]

I just joined this site, so I cannot post links, but I recommend searching for these songs on Youtube:

Jin-God Future
Jin used to be a battle rapper but was recently converted. Make sure that you find his new stuff, not his old.

Lecrae-Don't waste your life
Lecrae's got good stuff.

DC Talk-Jesus is alright
If you want some of that 90's cheese. I still like it.

Remember- If God can use Paul, who once persecuted Christians, if God can use you, though you were born in sin, in the same way can he use any genre of music, regardless of its origins. If you do not judge a person for having a family of non-Christians, then why judge a song on the merits of other songs of the same genre?

 

[graciesings]

I am against most rap music because of the ideas usually expressed in it. I am also against Christianizing rap music. God is a God of peace. love, and beautiful things. Shouldn't we praise Him with peaceful, loving, and beautiful music?

 

[Gozreht]

Make a joyful noise unto the Lord. Who is to say that rock, country, rap, classical, non-instrumental or any type of music is more respectful than any other? David danced so hard his clothes fell off. Some would say that is disrespectful but he knew God was looking at the heart. If your style is rap and you can praise God by doing it then why not? I do not care for it much but it is not my style. God gave us tastes and we are supposed to use what we have for Him. I agree wordly artists in the rap world seem like they do encourage crime, but then you would have to say since many hymns are close to country music then hymns support drinking, upbeat rock songs support drug usage, and classical music supports deism only.

The worship is the key. The words are what matter. Music is just style.

If someone preaches like the old timers and breathe between each word, or someone just stands there with hands folded while they preach, or someone cries all the time, are they more reverant than others? No. They are preaching the word of God and the people that listen to them like the style.

 

[graciesings]

I am sorry, but I must disagree.

Make a joyful noise unto the Lord.

Thank you for starting with one of the scriptural quotes that I often use against rap/rock music. I feel that most rap and rock music does not count as a "joyful noise." Rather, it sounds like the lead singer is yelling at somebody. I feel that making the words of rock/rap music Christian is a misrepresentation of Christianity. Our religion is based on love! Why should we say words of love in a yelling-at-somebody tone? Jesus was gentle. He told us to be gentle. So I feel that gentle music praises Him best.

Who is to say that rock, country, rap, classical, non-instrumental or any type of music is more respectful than any other?

I believe that we respect God most with music that mirrors His nature. In addition to the gentlenss issue, the Bible says that God is Love. One must admit that rap is a music of hate, and even if the words are changed, some of the hate is still there! Beauty is another issue. God apparently enjoys creating beautiful things. So shouldn't we Christians follow His example by creating beautiful music? Some people have told me about how "they find beauty in rap" but they sure don't find much beauty in there, and the beauty isn't as obvious as it is in other kinds of music! So my point is: in a way worshipping with rap music is less respectful because it doesn't show the beauty and love that comes from Christ.

David danced so hard his clothes fell off. Some would say that is disrespectful but he knew God was looking at the heart. If your style is rap and you can praise God by doing it then why not?

Why? (I am sorry, but "why not" is a lousy reason to do something.)

I do not care for it much but it is not my style. God gave us tastes and we are supposed to use what we have for Him. I agree wordly artists in the rap world seem like they do encourage crime, but then you would have to say since many hymns are close to country music then hymns support drinking, upbeat rock songs support drug usage, and classical music supports deism only.

One big problem with this "change the words and keep the music" idea is that by saying this Christians are allowing some modern culture to be OK. I am not saying that everything popular is bad, but I have seen churches say some culture things are OK, then allow a few more, than the next generation says God is fine with this popular act, and so on. In 10-50 years, the church doesn't believe anything.

By using rap music, we both associate ourselves with pop culture and with the hateful feelings that come through in rap. Is this good?

The worship is the key. The words are what matter. Music is just style.

If someone preaches like the old timers and breathe between each word, or someone just stands there with hands folded while they preach, or someone cries all the time, are they
more reverant than others? No. They are preaching the word of God and the people that listen to them like the style.

How far are you willing to take this argument? I hear you saying that any style of worship is OK. Is that really what you mean, or am I interpreting your words incorrectly?

 

[Gozreht]

Gracie,

Trust me. I know how you feel. We feel the same way in our reasoning but the results are coming out differently. I completely respect how you feel.

Thank you for starting with one of the scriptural quotes that I often use against rap/rock music. I feel that most rap and rock music does not count as a "joyful noise." Rather, it sounds like the lead singer is yelling at somebody. I feel that making the words of rock/rap music Christian is a misrepresentation of Christianity. Our religion is based on love! Why should we say words of love in a yelling-at-somebody tone? Jesus was gentle. He told us to be gentle. So I feel that gentle music praises Him best.

Notice how many times you express your feelings, which are totally legit. I know what you are saying. Rapping to me isn't even singing. It is talking at a weird pace to a beat. Jesus wasn't always gentle. He overthrew tables. He rebuked people. I would imagine some of His speeches were loud to reach the crowd and filled with emotion. My father yelled at me one time but I knew he did it our of love because I did something wrong. Gentleness and love are not always coinciding with each other. Not all rock and rap yell. I grew up listening to Petra and Stryper. Louder and faster than the normal "Christian" music at the time. I found many ways to praise God during those times. But on the other hand I could find it in the music you would like as well. By the standards you have placed on worship the only things we would be singing are lullabys and whispers. Psalms said use harps, drums, cymbals, flutes, dancing, clapping. Enter His courts with Praise!

I believe that we respect God most with music that mirrors His nature. In addition to the gentlenss issue, the Bible says that God is Love. One must admit that rap is a music of hate,

I know many songs that aren't. DC Talk has many raps that do not have hate and talk about spreading the love.

Beauty is another issue. God apparently enjoys creating beautiful things. So shouldn't we Christians follow His example by creating beautiful music? Some people have told me about how "they find beauty in rap" but they sure don't find much beauty in there, and the beauty isn't as obvious as it is in other kinds of music! So my point is: in a way worshipping with rap music is less respectful because it doesn't show the beauty and love that comes from Christ.

How do you measure beauty in music?

One big problem with this "change the words and keep the music" idea is that by saying this Christians are allowing some modern culture to be OK. I am not saying that everything popular is bad, but I have seen churches say some culture things are OK, then allow a few more, than the next generation says God is fine with this popular act, and so on. In 10-50 years, the church doesn't believe anything.

I am with you here. I have a blog that says everything you just said. But I think (and notice my opinion) those are not practices of a culture that we are warned about. Clothes styles (with modesty) are not. Hair styles are not. Life styles ARE. The Bible does not warn us against different types of music but does warn us about different types of messages. Out of the tongue comes life or death. 100 years ago there was no thing as rock or rap but the music 100 years ago was a change from 200 years ago. Was it wrong for churches to change music then too? By these standards you have placed on worship here, the only music we should be listening to is what Adam and Eve created. Because over the last few thousand years music has changed. I am assuming though you only want hymns? Hymns are good. But some are not inspiration or even worship God. Again it all comes to feelings and styles.

By using rap music, we both associate ourselves with pop culture and with the hateful feelings that come through in rap. Is this good?

We did the same with Christmas. We took a pagan holiday and turned it into His birthday. I say take what satan feels is his strongpoints and turn them against him.

How far are you willing to take this argument? I hear you saying that any style of worship is OK. Is that really what you mean, or am I interpreting your words incorrectly?

I do think there is a breaking point. And it may be a fine line. I go to a church that literally beat on a garbage can during worship. Now I was upset. Not because of the can being used but the reasoning behind it. If all you have is a can then use it. But we did it for show. So I know how you feel about ALL styles being used. Now if you are talking music style in and of itself then yes. Although not many are my preference. I hate country music so I do not like music of churches 30 years ago. I'll Fly Away" is a song that I would love to burn because it reminds me of two hillbillies singing one day and then getting drunk on grandpas cough medicine the next day. But again that is my feeling, not scripture.

Thanks Gracie for being patient. I know how important worship feeling s are.

 

[graciesings]

Gracie,

Trust me. I know how you feel. We feel the same way in our reasoning but the results are coming out differently. I completely respect how you feel.

Notice how many times you express your feelings, which are totally legit. I know what you are saying. Rapping to me isn't even singing. It is talking at a weird pace to a beat. Jesus wasn't always gentle. He overthrew tables. He rebuked people. I would imagine some of His speeches were loud to reach the crowd and filled with emotion. My father yelled at me one time but I knew he did it our of love because I did something wrong. Gentleness and love are not always coinciding with each other. Not all rock and rap yell. I grew up listening to Petra and Stryper. Louder and faster than the normal "Christian" music at the time. I found many ways to praise God during those times. But on the other hand I could find it in the music you would like as well. By the standards you have placed on worship the only things we would be singing are lullabys and whispers. Psalms said use harps, drums, cymbals, flutes, dancing, clapping. Enter His courts with Praise!

Ok. But is rap/contemporary music "praise?" I have noticed that many contemporary songs have a big self-focus. I praise you, I bow down, I have come to worship. Are the singers praising God or singing about how they themselves feel? I am not saying that contemporary music is always worse than traditional, but I have seen a lot more of that self-focus in contemporary music. (Probably because it is written by the more recent very selfish generations.)

I know many songs that aren't. DC Talk has many raps that do not have hate and talk about spreading the love.

If you tell me about love in a hateful tone, am I going to believe you?

How do you measure beauty in music?

What are you asking?

I am with you here. I have a blog that says everything you just said. But I think (and notice my opinion) those are not practices of a culture that we are warned about. Clothes styles (with modesty) are not. Hair styles are not. Life styles ARE. The Bible does not warn us against different types of music but does warn us about different types of messages. Out of the tongue comes life or death. 100 years ago there was no thing as rock or rap but the music 100 years ago was a change from 200 years ago. Was it wrong for churches to change music then too? By these standards you have placed on worship here, the only music we should be listening to is what Adam and Eve created. Because over the last few thousand years music has changed. I am assuming though you only want hymns? Hymns are good. But some are not inspiration or even worship God. Again it all comes to feelings again.

Oh, boy. I hate to go off topic, but...
I would argue that clothing styles are a part of the culture that Christians should ignore. I think Christians should wear modest clothing and ignore this whole style thing. As a child, I had seen many Christians get caught up in the never ending merry-go-round of trying to wear stylish clothing. It was a bad idea! They spent way too much money and effort on clothing that they rarely wore. And it didn't even make them look nice. Now as for hairstyles: I have found that some styling is necessary, but I never wear any hairstyle if I can't brush my hair and style it in 5 minutes
Yes lifestyle is important. It is important that Christians keep their priorities straight. I am afraid to say that keeping priorities straighr must include some seperation from the culture, because "modern" translates "has priorities out of order." I am sure you will agree that secular music has it's priorities out of order. I also feel that most "Christian" contemporary/rock/rap music is the same. The artists are trying to make money off people. The songs focus on self more and God less. And have you ever seen a Sunday morning worship group up at the front of the church trying to look sexy and show off how well THEY can sing? I don't know about you, but I see more priorities out of order in contemporary music.

We did the same with Christmas. We took a pagan holiday and turned it into His birthday. I say take what satan feels is his strongpoints and turn them against him.

I suppose that is possible, but I haven't seen it work very many times! And isn't Christmas a bit of a Pagan holiday again? You know, where kids worship Santa and grownups worship food and televisions and everybody worships trinkets wrapped in pretty paper?
Philosophically, the reason I have never been big on the idea of using Satan's strong points against him is that since God is stronger, why not use God's strong points?

I do think there is a breaking point. And it may be a fine line. I go to a church that literally beat on a garbage can during worship. Now I was upset. Not because of the can being used but the reasoning behind it. If all you have is a can then use it. But we did it for show. So I know how you feel about ALL styles being used. Now if you are talking music style in and of itself then yes. Although not many are my preference. I hate country music so I do not like music of churches 30 years ago. I'll Fly Away" is a song that
I would love to burn because it reminds me of two hillbillies singing one day and then getting drunk on grandpas cough medicine the next day. But again that is my feeling, not scripture. [/QUOTE]
I figured you would draw the line somewhere.
I don't know what the music styles were thirty years ago, but I don't like "I'll fly away." It doesn't have the text quality that some hymns do, and I have never heard it sung well.

Thanks Gracie for being patient. I know how important worship feeling s are.

 

[Gozreht]

Ok. But is rap/contemporary music "praise?" I have noticed that many contemporary songs have a big self-focus. I praise you, I bow down, I have come to worship. Are the singers praising God or singing about how they themselves feel? I am not saying that contemporary music is always worse than traditional, but I have seen a lot more of that self-focus in contemporary music. (Probably because it is written by the more recent very selfish generations.)

Good point. This is the argument I have with some of the musicians at church. Why sing these songs? There are songs we use for entertainment and songs we use for personal worship. Some people think just because they are on the radio that they are good songs to use for worship and that is not accurate. When we listen for entertainment that is not for God. It is for us. But on the other hand many old traditional hymns do not worship God either. When the Roll is called up yonder talks about how we will be and feel; no worship, isn't that self-focus? The point being here is any song could be wrong/right to use and any style could be wrong/right to use given the purpose of it. But I agree with you that we have a very selfish generation. people get mad when I do this but...check out this Christian Thoughts: XCVII. Generation Y

If you tell me about love in a hateful tone, am I going to believe you?

Keep in mind not all rap is a hateful tone. Hard core rap I can see being that way. Mainstream rap was created for that reason. But rap in and of itself does not have to be.

What are you asking?

You claim that rap is basically not beautiful music but how can we put a measurement on how beautiful it is? That is like saying someone is ugly but to someone they are quite beautiful. This of more urban backgrounds (for lack of better words) may see rap as a vehicle to worship God.

Oh, boy. I hate to go off topic, but...
I would argue that clothing styles are a part of the culture that Christians should ignore. I think Christians should wear modest clothing and ignore this whole style thing...And it didn't even make them look nice.

Yes. I meant like wearing jeans or tennis shoes not low cut tops and skinny jeans fads.

Yes lifestyle is important. It is important that Christians keep their priorities straight. I am afraid to say that keeping priorities straighr must include some seperation from the culture, because "modern" translates "has priorities out of order." I am sure you will agree that secular music has it's priorities out of order.

Yes.

I also feel that most "Christian" contemporary/rock/rap music is the same. The artists are trying to make money off people.

Maybe some are but this is their job too. Ministers get paid for what they do, is that trying to make money off of people? Depends on who it is.

quote]The songs focus on self more and God less. And have you ever seen a Sunday morning worship group up at the front of the church trying to look sexy and show off how well THEY can sing? I don't know about you, but I see more priorities out of order in contemporary music.[/quote]

Yes. I have seen this way too many times but that is the person not the music. The person has their priorities wrong and they use the music wrong. But the music itself is not the problem.

I suppose that is possible, but I haven't seen it work very many times! And isn't Christmas a bit of a Pagan holiday again? You know, where kids worship Santa and grownups worship food and televisions and everybody worships trinkets wrapped in pretty paper?

Yes. We let that slip away from us.

Philosophically, the reason I have never been big on the idea of using Satan's strong points against him is that since God is stronger, why not use God's strong points?

Sure. But I don't want satan to have any fun...

I don't know what the music styles were thirty years ago, but I don't like "I'll fly away." It doesn't have the text quality that some hymns do, and I have never heard it sung well.

 

[Gozreht]

Oops. Sorry Grace. I added the link to the blog and then saw you already went there and added a comment. Thanks for your insight. Loved it.

 

[Gozreht]

deleted by me

 

[Trailltrader]

If you show me Christian rap that is in line with the New Testament, then I shall exempt Christian rap from my loathing of rap music.

Bob, please consider this: if we were all alike then the world would be very boring wouldn't it? We'd be like the Army on parade- "AT CLOSE INTERVALS DRESS RIGHT DRESS! READY- FRONT!"

Is that the kind of world you want to live in? I don't But consider this: I don't like rap music either- I'm 52 years old- but I understand that music is a reflection of peoples thinking and how they grow even if its simply recycled noise.

Consider the 1920's disco's that were re-invented in the 1970's? Consider that rap is similar to where in the Book of Psalms of an acoustic poem put to music- which would put G-d based rap music some what? 1,000 years before Christ walked the earth?

I'm not saying you have to like it, you don't even have to accept it- because rap is now passe' and has been transformed into "dubstep". So it is what it is, Bob.

 

[Gozreht]

Traill,

Good point. I would like to expand on that idea. Music changes, period. We don't know what music God likes best. I would imagine it doesn't matter to him as long as His name is praised in it. I hate rap, I hate country, I loathe blue grass. But if you are from certain areas of the world then that is what you get. Do people in Japan have to play American 1950's style church music to be respectful? No, they worship in their language and culture. Now, to actually use secular words and songs as worship is something else. I know churches who play secular songs to bring people in. I keep telling them though that we tell people they need to change their lives and here we are playing music about sex (seriously) or revenge because as they put it they want to reach the culture. I tell them to use the music but use God's message. I am branded an idiot.

 

[Follower3]

I don't like rap either, but i have always liked most rap music ( the music they play )

 

[Trailltrader]

Traill,

Good point. I would like to expand on that idea. Music changes, period. We don't know what music God likes best. .

I would imagine that God's favorite music is that music which is honest and comes from the heart. But how many renditions of "Amazing Grace" can he stand before he screams "STOP! JUST STOP! OK, I get it- for 400 plus years its been a beautiful song and its the only song that can be played on bagpipes and considered music. But I have to draw the line at taking cat meow's and dog barks making "Amazing Grace" like "Jingle Cats"

There is one biblical example of this actually taking place- for something like 60 years Moses had been bugging God to go into the Promised Land. Finally even God said "NO! Now quit asking me!"

 

[Follower3]

But I have to draw the line at taking cat meow's and dog barks making "Amazing Grace" like "Jingle Cats"

That would be awesome, have all of the animals God made, singing amazing grace XD