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I have made a mess....not sure what to do

musicman61

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To start with....I need to confess that I am responsible entirely for my current situation. I am not putting off blame on anyone but myself.

I am a believing Christian and have been for over 30 years. I have been married for just over 29 years now and have four grown kids. Just over four months ago my wife and I separated. Our marriage has struggled for over a decade and I was convinced by hanging in there and prayer and trying to change things would get better. We (my wife and I) got along well, but it was as friends, not as lovers. There was no intimacy in the relationship at all and I could not be emotionally vulnerable with her any more. There are a host of reasons behind this decision, but I was the one who made the decision to separate. One issue is I have an innate distrust of counseling so I never sought counseling for us. I had many friends do counseling and more of them ended up worse off afterwards than when they started than the ones who were helped. Instead I read books, prayed, talked to friends who I respected about good marriage practices. In retrospect that was not good thinking on my part.

Anyways, I chose to separate. My wife was very shocked. My child who still lived at home was not. They had seen the distance clearly. I moved into a friends spare room to stay. My wife and I saw each other several times a week when I was at the house for one reason or another. We talked after a month and I had not changed my mind. I still have not on that front. While I do still deeply care for my wife, I simply cannot be married to her any longer. She is the most bitter, negative person I have ever known. That has only gotten worse through the separation (which is to be expected I think, she is very angry with me). I work for a Christian organization and told my boss and the HR people about the situation and while not happy they were supportive initially. That is no longer the case. They have decided that if I move forward with the divorce I will be fired. At this point my wife is also in favor of the divorce and wants me to file the paperwork. I can't until my job situation is better (ie. a new job).

If you have been in this situation you know that it is difficult to deal with inside the church. Most of my church friends, nearly all of whom know the situation, have said nothing and/or are avoiding me (since I am the 'leaver' and thus am a horrible sinner). I am lacking people to talk to and you desperately need people to talk to in this situation. Thus enters the big complication.

I play online games on occasion. Inside of one of those games I was a member of a in-game guild. A good number of people in that guild created our own chat forum. In that forum I met a Christian lady in the same circumstance. She was separated from her husband and seeking a divorce (which is still in process). We were able to help each other through some tough days and nights and encourage one another. We eventually discovered we live about 1 hour apart from each other and eventually decided to meet. And yes, we have fallen for each other quite hard. We connect with each other on so many levels and are both wanting to move into a permanent situation when we are both divorced. We have not slept with each other (no sex) but do have a semi-physical relationship and we are very deeply emotionally tied to one another. It was easy to justify at the beginning because we had both left our spouses with no intention of returning prior to our relationship.

But, we both realize that this is indeed an affair. No, we are not sleeping together and yes we have emotionally left our spouses, but we are both still legally married. And this is an affair none the less. As I have been reading different books/articles/blogs I am seeing that the odds of a relationship working that was started this quickly out of a marriage are pretty grim. I am also not going to abandon my faith, as flawed and imperfect as I am on my good days. I live in the grace and forgiveness of God daily anyways - that has always been my sole claim to righteousness - that Jesus died for me. Period. But I also know this is not a healthy place to be spiritually and that the intense emotions we feel towards each other could be a rebound from the deadness we both had in our last marriage. Maybe, just maybe, this is in fact the real thing and we could get married and have a fantastic relationship, but I know what I am doing now is not honoring to God nor to my family.

But I am not sure what to do. I do truly love this other lady more than I have ever loved a woman. My current wife and I were never this connected ever in our relationship. I want to get my relationship with God straight right now and I think some time without any emotional attachments will help me get my head and soul in the right place. But I feel that if I were to end or put this relationship with the other woman on hold that I am throwing her to the emotional dogs. Her current husband has alienated nearly all of her friends from her. She has almost no support team behind her. She is at a new church and knows almost no one there. I just don't know what to do. I don't know how I can get right with God in this relationship, but I fear what damage might happen to her if I were to back away. I have considered writing her and email asking to put the relationship on hold until we are both legally divorced. But because of my work situation it may be months before I can even file papers. And is this too soon even if we did go on hold for 3 - 6 months?

Any tidbits of wisdom appreciated. I know I have made a mess of this whole thing.....
 

JCLover779

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I don't have any tidbits to help you, but I think you already know what you need to do.

I can understand where you are coming from and how you got where you are. I would have said to find some friends to talk with in one of your hobbies - but that is what you did. It's relatively easy to keep your boundaries up and "do what you are supposed to" with most people that you meet - even very interesting or attractive people who like the same things that you do. But sometimes one comes along and those boundaries come crashing down.

I don't really have anyone at my church I talk with (there are some ladies I do enjoy chatting with quite a bit). I have found Christian friends in my passionate hobbies and I feel a lot more free to be open with them. Again, that is what you did with this lady you met. I would encourage you to seek out other males who live a Christian life to talk with in your hobbies if you are not finding them at church.

You seem like you've got a real good handle on what you should do and are a level-headed guy. I'll pray for you for strength and guidance.
 
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dayhiker

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I guess I'd say each of you should deal with your current marriage before you go any further with this new relationship. You two are in this situation because churches don't know how to deal with hard issues that aren't following the Christian script. We sit in our pews rather than knowing each other and learning how to deal with difference and how to still love each other when we have differences.
So you two are supporting each other ... I'm guessing you will still need each other for support till you both deal with what looks like divorce. Then you need to know if your still the right person after its all past and you have to find something new to center your life around.
 
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JCLover779

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I so love this post. It's what I wanted to say, but couldn't.
 
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musicman61

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Thank you...I appreciate your point of view. Unfortunately you are too on target with the church thing. One thing I have learned if nothing else is to have a bit more empathy for the more marginalized church members. I think until you get a bit marginalized then you don't see what is happening.

As for our situations, she (other woman I guess) already went through a lot of couples counseling and it did not help them. They are probably about 1 month from the divorce being final. In my situation neither of us want to reconcile, but I am going to start seeing a counselor recommended by a person I have a lot of trust in. My wife is in counseling and has a 'life coach' she is working with. I will see what happens with all of that but we have just gotten further apart over the past few months.
 
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Messy

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I would stop with the other woman. With my ex and me we lived like brother and sister for three years, only fights and problems and he didn't want counselling, was sick of it, wanted a divorce. He had been chatting with a woman for more than a year, who was also divorced when we were married.
I ran off with someone else in no time. 7 weeks later he called me if I please wanted to come back and I couldn't anymore, I was so confused I believed I was married to this other guy and couldn't go back according to Leviticus. I regret it 'til this day. The second marriage was horror.
It really sounds like a rebound, please don't do it. I've been there.
With you and your wife, if you seperate, stay alone. The Bible doesn't say this for nothing, now I know why God said it, to spare us the heartache.
She still has a chance to reconcile with her husband and you still have a chance to reconcile, my ex remarried a woman who had a chance of reconciling and they thought I was being legalistic, but it turned out that he never should have married her, he told me afterwards.
 
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musicman61

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Update.....

Both myself and the 'other woman' had dialed back the relationship some (no face to face meetings). We were still talking and trying to be supportive. But Saturday she was very emotional and very clingy all day (from a distance). Sunday's sermon was about bringing our issues to God and dealing with them openly and honestly. I told her that I had to break this off. She told me that God had told her to let me go. It was not easy but that fast the relationship is over. I know we cannot stay in touch right now at all and losing the support is rough, but I know God can help provide the backup we each need. I need the alone time to get myself to a healthy place. She wants to us to check in with each other in 6 months. I told her I need to be open to what God wants me to do and I cannot hold on to the relationship even at a distance right now so that cannot happen.

It would take direct intervention from God to mend my marriage and honestly I'm not sure I want it mended. But that could be my problem and not a marriage problem. I start counseling in September. I think it took God the four months of the separation and using a wrong relationship to get me to the point where I am recognizing that right now I just need to pour myself into him and be healed and whole again. I am incapable of getting there on my own. I would appreciate any prayers. Thank you....
 
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findmydream

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I don't know where you are located, but there is a wonderful organization called Divorce Care. I know there are many churches in the US and Canada that run a group. Check out the website divorcecare.org to find out more and find a group near you. I went for two sessions last fall and this spring and plan on continuing to go. There is a workbook with videos as well as discussion time. My group also offers a meal at the beginning of each meeting, which is really nice if you are on your own. I really encourage you to look into it! There are also daily devotional emails that you can sign up for free and they provide a lot of insight into things as well, especially if you aren't able to attend a group.
 
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DZoolander

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Well, I'll be the dissenter in the mix...

The advice to stay alone is good - but not for the reasons people often attribute to that. The problem (in my mind) is that dating as a recent divorcee is *not* the same thing as dating as a healthy/ready to begin anew individual.

Case in point - I remember when I went through my divorce. I waited a little while (what I thought was sufficient...probably about 6 months or so) - and then decided to go give dating a try. I met some really nice lady - took her out to a comedy club - then went to a bar afterwards. What did I find myself talking to her about for the entire evening? My divorce.

After I dropped her off - I realized what a crappy date that must have been for her. Who really wants to sit there and commiserate with someone else about the state of their previous relationship or hear all the details of what drove that random person apart from their spouse? The fact that I even had the desire to talk about it meant it was on my mind - which meant that I wasn't over it.

...and I had an obligation to whomever I dated to be "over it".

So - really - I didn't date for several years after I got divorced. I needed to be comfortable in my own situation - as a single person - before doing so.

Think about your first crush/first love...the girl you thought you "loved" back in elementary school. Think about how much of your thoughts they consumed - or the visions you had of how much that person meant to you. Think about how much of your thoughts they consume now as an adult. That's how life is. Your ex-spouse will eventually be like that as well.

People say stuff like "absence makes the heart grow stronger" - which I think is nonsense. Absence makes the heart apathetic - and the heart moves on. If divorce is what you're pursuing - give your heart appropriate time to grow accustomed to that absence before you start thinking about dating around again.

So - it isn't so much that dating as a divorcee is inherently problematic. The studies you hear about how second and third marriages have even higher divorce rates doesn't mean anything in and of itself. Rather - what I think the problem is (and what causes those aberrations) is that people approach it wrong. They date too quickly, they date to fill a void, etc.

....and that never ends well.
 
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musicman61

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Yeah....it's been over two 1/2 months since I said anything here and I know this is not a super busy forum. But....an update.

I have been in counseling and about two weeks ago a light went on via a book called 'No More Mr Nice Guy'. It is a secular book and I don't agree with all his action steps, but his 'diagnosis' is pretty dead on and some of what he suggested I am putting into practice (and I ordered a Christian book that deals with the same issue from I hope a different angle).

My wife and I are still separated but we talked on Sunday and we are going to try to work on reconciling though both of us are doing this at this point only because we feel it is the correct thing to do as believers, not because either of us are fully committed to it. Hopefully that may come in the process. Tonight we will be talking about my affair I had while we were separated. She just found out from me. I'm not sure what all she wants to know but the best advice I could find online (cannot meet with my counselor right now) was to be 100% honest about everything - even if it just makes everything worse. So that is what I will do - to a point. I am not giving any names. This is not a person that my wife knows or has ever seen or will see again so that detail will not mentioned and there is no reason to mention it.

So any prayers that any of you may have time to spare I would appreciate it. If we can save the marriage it will need to be rebuilt from the ground up and will take a lot of time and effort. And at this point there is no guarantee we will even get there - but I think we do need to try.
 
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musicman61

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Praying for you both

Thank you. My discussion with my wife last night went about as well as this type of discussion could have. I also had to tell all of our kids which was not easy either. We are still both looking to reconcile but it is not going to be easy. Some of the issues on my wife's part were brought up last night and her refusal to own up to them (victim mentality) is still there and needs to be dealt with. So we both have a ways to go.
 
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ValleyGal

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Just a few words of advice... love is all about caring for the other person's best interest. I disagree about the full disclosure thing - especially when it comes to the children. They did and do not need to know about your affair - it is not in their best interest, and your marriage dynamics are not their business or their responsibility. I'm also not sure that disclosing the affair to your wife was in her best interest because she already deals with bitterness and it likely just heaped coal onto that fire.

You say you and your wife are both committed to doing the right thing because you are believers, but neither of you is really committed to making the marriage work. So here's a quick word on commitment. It is made up of two parts: care and consistency. Care is [primarily] emotional and consistency is behavioural. Care means that the other person has meaning to you and you value her in a particular role in your life. You said in an earlier post that you still care about your wife, but it is evident that you might not care for her. The good news is that you can learn to through emotional intelligence. You can use your cognitive brain to train your emotional brain what to feel - your cognitive brain can dictate your behaviours (meaning you can behave as if you care for her in spite of whether or not you actually do), and caring behaviour - consistency - will naturally flow out of both the emotional and cognitive part of your brain as your thinking brain is successful in training your emotional brain.

Flowing out of that is the interpersonal dynamic of influence. You can indeed influence how your wife thinks and feels about you. She will experience your care and consistency as significance and security, respectively. If someone cares about you, you will feel significant to that person, and if someone is consistent in their behaviour, you experience it as security because you are able to anticipate their behaviour and their thinking. So that's a little about influence...

Dr. Gottman, in Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work, adds to this idea, saying that we allow - or not - our spouses to influence us.

In practice, then, in order for your care and consistency to work with your wife, she needs to allow it to influence her before she will feel significant, secure, and return the commitment with care and consistency of her own. All this starts out a little bit during reconciliation, and those little bits of back-and-forth will accumulate and there will be larger bits each time more is added so it becomes cumulative. As hard as it is at this point, it will get easier, depending on the degree to which you allow mutual positive influence rather than negative influence (either or both).

I hope that helps a little. Praying for your situation.
 
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Svt4Him

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People run from something to something else. So far I'm 100% accurate that there may be a push (Friendship type marriage) but there is always a pull. To say you met someone after goes against my experiences, as there is always a pull before it happens.
 
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musicman61

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I am not going to doubt your experience, but I have known numerous people who have walked away from marriages for reasons other than another person. While I will agree there is often a 'pull'....another relationship is not always that pull. It was not in my case.
 
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