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I have an idea VictorC...

k4c

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I have to give you credit you sure know how to twist, put words in people's mouth and tell people they believe when they don't even believe what you say. You sure are gifted.

Both of us believe we can disobey the ten commandments, and you have already shown your "obedience" to be no more compliant than mine.

This is exactly what I mean. I never said we CAN disobey the Ten Commandments, as though it's okay, even though we do break them. You really have to read the whole Bible to understand God's will for His people.


Amen...we are all counted as disobedient, this levels the playing field and makes us all equal having the same opportunity to freely come to God. But the fact that we are all counted as disobedient does not mean we continue in disobedience. Unbelief, a lack of faith, as well as, committing adultery, lying, stealing, forgetting the Sabbath and so on are all part of disobedience so do we continue on this path because we are all counted as disobedient?

Listen to what God says, you do still believe in God don't you?

Romans 6:19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
 
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VictorC

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I have to give you credit you sure know how to twist, put words in people's mouth and tell people they believe when they don't even believe what you say. You sure are gifted.
Since the employment of half-truths was done by you, I believe you should re-read the post I wrote addressing that.
This is exactly what I mean. I never said we CAN disobey the Ten Commandments, as though it's okay, even though we do break them. You really have to read the whole Bible to understand God's will for His people.
You break them, and yet it isn't okay to break them? Did you forget that you claimed to violate the sabbath every week earlier in this thread?
The law does not have a provision to forgive transgressions, and demands atonement by blood for your infractions. Your conclusion stated in contradiction to your practice tells me that you haven't been redeemed as God's purchased possession. It is plain you do not know God's will that sent Jesus Christ to the cross.
You forgot the sabbath, remember? You don't keep it holy, and that is a transgression of the first covenant. It is also a devotion to a ceremonial law that Adventism claims was done away with, and has no relation to God's commandment (external, not internalized) to love one another. Your whole appeal is to a code that tells us to do no evil to another, and your whole motive is to "keep" a sabbath you don't keep yourself and isn't a moral imperative.
Listen to what God says, you do still believe in God don't you?
Asking me such a rhetorical question doesn't deflect your disbelief in God's Word explaining how we have entered into His rest. Your devotion is to the sabbath that was called a shadow, and a component of the first covenant God took away with His hand when He established the new covenant in His Blood.
 
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k4c

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We just go round and round...I think you need a triple head slapper...
 
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VictorC

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We just go round and round...I think you need a triple head slapper...
I don't need anything that you have to offer thus far.
Suit your own emotional needs without resorting to personal attacks.
 
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Adventtruth

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I admitted the truth that God's Law is eternal. .....

The bible proves you are wrong about the law being eternal. Eternal is without a starting point or a ending point. THe following verse clearly shows the law had a beginning.

(Gal 3:19) Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
 
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Byfaithalone1

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Great point! If I could build on this point, I would add that sabbatarians agree that the sabbath law had a starting point. Although we may disagree as to the date upon which it began, all of us seem to agree that there were no sabbath laws on Day 6 of creation week.

Add to this the fact that most SDAs agree that laws relating to all holy convocations (with only one notable exception) have come to an end. They believe this even though they know that not one jot or tittle can pass from the law until ALL has been accomplished.

This leads me to two important conclusions:
1. That which has a beginning cannot be eternal.

2. Either all of the old covenant laws have ended or none of them have.
BFA
 
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k4c

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The Law on stone was added but the words contained within the Law are from the mind of God and reveal His will even before Sinai. To add to this, eternal can have a begining without an end. Your temporary life that had a begining can receive eternal life, which is a life without end.
 
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Adventtruth

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The Law on stone was added but the words contained within the Law are from the mind of God and reveal His will even before Sinai.


As too was grass on the earth in the mind of God before it was really on the earth, but it dies out once a year. So whats that got to do with the argument....not a thing. We wont call grass eternal, and the bible never calls the law eternal. You are flat out wrong.

To add to this, eternal can have a beginning without an end. Your temporary life that had a begining can receive eternal life, which is a life without end.

You have correctly said RECEIVE eternal life which means I am not eternal. Only God is eternal....not you...not me...not the law...My life is not my life...it is Christ Eternal life within me....never forget that young man. I enter into eternity. Eternal does not, and can not rely on anything for its being but its self. What is eternal is of its self and always has been and always will be...without starting point or ending point.

1Ti 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1Ti 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.


AT
 
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Kira Light

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We just go round and round...I think you need a triple head slapper...

Part of why it goes round and round for eternity is the SDA belief system in which: You do not need to keep the law to be saved, but if you are saved YOU WILL KEEP THE LAW (or else)!!! It is complete and total double-speak. The very definition of having it both ways.
 
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VictorC

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Do you think speculation without support for a pre-origin of the law's origin 430 years after God's promise was given to Abraham is going to make your speculation come true? Do you think that comparing God's promise of eternal life to those He redeemed from the first covenant is going to support a thesis you cannot support from Scripture?

No, speculation of this nature comes from wanting Scripture to say something it doesn't. That's the very reason you don't offer any support for the concept of an eternal law that imputes sin eternally for transgressions to it.

Romans 4:13-15
For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

1 Timothy 1:15 tells us "This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief". The legal solution provided by God's redemption is clear in Romans 5:13 where it states "sin is not imputed when there is no law".
But it seems your contention that this isn't true, since you contend that the law is eternal and will forever impute sin to everyone under it and salvation for the Gentiles is a myth. Redemption from the law doesn't exist in Adventist theology, am I right?
And yet the only support you can provide for such contention is speculation.
 
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k4c

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So no one was guilty for breaking God's Law prior to sinai? Hmmmm!

The Law defines love, God is love, God is eternal, the principles contained in God's law define love.

Romans 2:12-13 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
 
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VictorC

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So no one was guilty for breaking God's Law prior to sinai? Hmmmm!

The Law defines love, God is love, God is eternal, the principles contained in God's law define love.
More speculation with nothing to support your contention in deference to Hebrews 7:12 statement the law was changed, 7:18 the law was anulled, 8:13 obsolete, and 10:9 taken away? No doubt the reason you don't attempt to support the speculation you present.
All this does is determine yourself unjustified, as this verse describes the condition that existed prior to the new covenant.

And you still haven't responded to the post:
You merely affirm a conclusion you've arrived at that the only means to call on the Lord is to abandon Christianity and seek the means dictated under the covenant mediated by Moses, before the Spirit of God's adoption was given.

Scripture testifies otherwise:

Hebrews 7
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,
19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.


Romans 8
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
 
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k4c

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Psalms 111:7-8 All He does is just and good, and all His laws are right, for they are formed from truth and goodness, and stand firm forever.
 
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VictorC

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Psalms 111:7-8 All He does is just and good, and all His laws are right, for they are formed from truth and goodness, and stand firm forever.
This doesn't change God's determination to change, anull, pronounce obsolete, and take away the ministry of death, written and engraved on tables of stone. You don't affirm the truth that does last forever, choosing instead to resort to a sound bite wholly unable to address the context of Hebrews 7-10.

And you still haven't responded to this post:
You merely affirm a conclusion you've arrived at that the only means to call on the Lord is to abandon Christianity and seek the means dictated under the covenant mediated by Moses, before the Spirit of God's adoption was given.

Scripture testifies otherwise:

Hebrews 7
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,
19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.


Romans 8
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
 
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VictorC

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So no one was guilty for breaking God's Law prior to sinai? Hmmmm!
How is it that you fabricate this nonsense and then abandon your premise contradictory to Scripture with no expectation of accountability?
 
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k4c

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How is it that you fabricate this nonsense and then abandon your premise contradictory to Scripture with no expectation of accountability?

Do you ever read verses outside of the ones you use to justify your belief system?

Let me give you some examples of sin before Sinai.

Cain was about to murder his brother when God idenitified Cains act. Listen to what God calls Cain's soon to be act of murder.

Genesis 4:7 "If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.''

How about the sexual sins of Sodom?

Genesis 18:20 And the Lord said, "Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grave.

Joseph was being tempted by Pharaoh's wife when Joseph made this statement.

Genesis 39:9 "There is no one greater in this house than I, nor has he kept back anything from me but you, because you are his wife. How then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?''

You can't forget the serpant who was a murder and a liar from the beginning.

Need I say any more?
 
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VictorC

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So no one was guilty for breaking God's Law prior to sinai? Hmmmm!
How is it that you fabricate this nonsense and then abandon your premise contradictory to Scripture with no expectation of accountability?
Let me give you some examples of sin before Sinai.
Your assertion was not concerning sin. We already know the origin of sin before the law mediated by Moses existed, but you claimed the law existed before Sinai.
Need I say any more?
You can either come up with an origin for the law outside of Moses, or honestly concede the error you presented.

John 1:17 contrasts the origin of grace apart from the law, and attributes the origin of the law directly to Moses: "For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ".
 
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k4c

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.........


..........

Since you don't hear a word God says I have to reply with these...
 
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VictorC

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You can either come up with an origin for the law outside of Moses, or honestly concede the error you presented.

John 1:17 contrasts the origin of grace apart from the law, and attributes the origin of the law directly to Moses: "For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ".
.........
..........
Since you don't hear a word God says I have to reply with these...
Cute faces are all the content you seem able to provide.
 
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