I Have a question

[TrueAuthority]

I was reading a thread in the creation/evolution section and this guy brought up a good point. How would most of you answer this..



"From a Catholic perspective, the only two dogmatic statements that I've been able to find concerning creation is that a) Adam and Eve were real and that b) everything was made out of nothing.

Havind said this though, this thought doesn't necessarilly apply to Catholics only. Using a symbolic representation of the Scriptural creation account seems to work only in so far as the science explains it. But when the concept of the human soul enters the equation, the argument for Christ's sacrifice seems to break down.

For example, if death came to man because of sin, yet there was 4 billion years of death prior to man's emergence onto the earth, then isn't man already born into death?

And, if one sees this death as symbolic or spiritual death, yet there were many humans who were alive at that point, wouldn't there be many who did not experience a spritual death at all?

The other thought that I have concerning the issue of death if the point of why did God spend 4 billion years bringing man here in the first place? It seems to be a lot of work to create something perfect only to have it go puff within a single generation (or single long term era of thousands of years). The "perfection" attained doesn't seem to be far removed from the deadly environment it emerged from.

For me, this is one of my sticking points: It seems that if God is all-knowing, then he wouldn't need to experiment using evolution (the biological equivalent of the scientic method) to get it right the first time."


Just wondering..

 

[LegomasterJC]

None of that makes sence to me... much of it is based on assumptions and some ideas that are not true.
Who says God experiments using evolution?
What's all this about 4 billion years?
How does the argument for Christ's sacrifice break down?
how's there four billion years of death before man was created on earth?
where do you get all these ideas?

 

[Asar'el]

I was reading a thread in the creation/evolution section and this guy brought up a good point. How would most of you answer this..



"From a Catholic perspective, the only two dogmatic statements that I've been able to find concerning creation is that a) Adam and Eve were real and that b) everything was made out of nothing.

Havind said this though, this thought doesn't necessarilly apply to Catholics only. Using a symbolic representation of the Scriptural creation account seems to work only in so far as the science explains it. But when the concept of the human soul enters the equation, the argument for Christ's sacrifice seems to break down.

For example, if death came to man because of sin, yet there was 4 billion years of death prior to man's emergence onto the earth, then isn't man already born into death?

And, if one sees this death as symbolic or spiritual death, yet there were many humans who were alive at that point, wouldn't there be many who did not experience a spritual death at all?

The other thought that I have concerning the issue of death if the point of why did God spend 4 billion years bringing man here in the first place? It seems to be a lot of work to create something perfect only to have it go puff within a single generation (or single long term era of thousands of years). The "perfection" attained doesn't seem to be far removed from the deadly environment it emerged from.

For me, this is one of my sticking points: It seems that if God is all-knowing, then he wouldn't need to experiment using evolution (the biological equivalent of the scientic method) to get it right the first time."


Just wondering..

Simple answer (for me and some). The Earth and Universe is 'young' (if you can call around 6000 years young!). Natural selection (one part of evolution) was (and is!) indeed at work - but no 'trial-and-error, no sub-humans, etc. Man was man from when God made man...

 

[Novaknight1]

Good question. If you ask me, sin came through man. God didn't require billions of years, He only used a week!

 

[TrueAuthority]

Why would he spend time creating us?

 

[Paul S]

I was reading a thread in the creation/evolution section and this guy brought up a good point. How would most of you answer this..

For example, if death came to man because of sin, yet there was 4 billion years of death prior to man's emergence onto the earth, then isn't man already born into death?

And, if one sees this death as symbolic or spiritual death, yet there were many humans who were alive at that point, wouldn't there be many who did not experience a spritual death at all?

Death did come to man because of sin. Death came to all other creatures because they have no immortal soul. Had Adam and Eve not sinned, we would not die, but other animals would.

 

[FullyMT]

Just so everyone knows...please don't report any of the posts above that are in violation of OBOB rules, if they are. The thread was moved from a different forum to here.

 

[Mustaphile]

I'm marking my spot in this thread. Don't mind me.

I'm keen to hear some answers.

 

[stray bullet]

I was reading a thread in the creation/evolution section and this guy brought up a good point. How would most of you answer this..



"From a Catholic perspective, the only two dogmatic statements that I've been able to find concerning creation is that a) Adam and Eve were real and that b) everything was made out of nothing.

Havind said this though, this thought doesn't necessarilly apply to Catholics only. Using a symbolic representation of the Scriptural creation account seems to work only in so far as the science explains it. But when the concept of the human soul enters the equation, the argument for Christ's sacrifice seems to break down.

For example, if death came to man because of sin, yet there was 4 billion years of death prior to man's emergence onto the earth, then isn't man already born into death?

And, if one sees this death as symbolic or spiritual death, yet there were many humans who were alive at that point, wouldn't there be many who did not experience a spritual death at all?

The other thought that I have concerning the issue of death if the point of why did God spend 4 billion years bringing man here in the first place? It seems to be a lot of work to create something perfect only to have it go puff within a single generation (or single long term era of thousands of years). The "perfection" attained doesn't seem to be far removed from the deadly environment it emerged from.

For me, this is one of my sticking points: It seems that if God is all-knowing, then he wouldn't need to experiment using evolution (the biological equivalent of the scientic method) to get it right the first time."



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The more I studied biology, particularly ecological areas of it, the more I realized the necessity for evolution.

Evolution isn't about 'getting things right' so much as it is preparing the world for man's arrival. We are dependent on natural processes which are dependent on natural processes, which are eventually dependent on us.

Think of evolution like fetal development, a series of stages leading up to full development, but all starting from a single point. We can also think of it like an economy, can you start a national economic infrastructure in a split second? Or is it better to start small and go up?

The first humans to acquire a soul could have been made immortal, lacking the genes which cause our genetic degrading until death. The children of Adam and Eve, had they not disobeyed, could have been kept immortal.
I think there is a lot more to the Genesis story than we could have understood at the time.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Indeed. Evolution isn't experimentation. Experimentation is fiddling with things until they are right. God got it right from the beginning, creating a process that itself brings about the ends He has in mind.

In the story, the man and woman are told they will die the day they eat the fruit. But they don't physically die the same day - rather they are expelled from the garden of Eden, which represents the presence of God. Expulsion from the presence of God is spiritual death. On their own, physical death became an enemy, because of their spiritual death.

It's always seemed a bit (a) strange and (b) unnecessary for Christians to suggest, despite all the evidence, that the universe is only six thousand years old.

 

[lismore]

Simple answer (for me and some). The Earth and Universe is 'young' (if you can call around 6000 years young!). ...

Amen

 

[Novaknight1]

There's 1 problem with the question: what makes you so sure the Earth was already billions of years old? Earth was labeled as billions of years old with inaccurate measures. One test showed a live snail at 2,300 years old! The Earth is really only 6,000 years old.

 

[Brother Charlie]

Evolution isnt true. No transitional fossils have ever been found,for any species, but according to the darwinian theory, we should have plenty of them by now