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The Righterzpen

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What is the point of being a Christian? It just doesn't make sense. What is Jesus supposed to be saving me from?
Ok it's more than 1 question.
But basically what is the point of following this religion?

Those who are honest about their fear of the wrath of God are those who find Christianity attractive.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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What is the point of being a Christian? It just doesn't make sense. What is Jesus supposed to be saving me from?
Ok it's more than 1 question.
But basically what is the point of following this religion?
Well first Christianity is actually not a religion. It is a relationship between humans and their Creator. There are no hoops to go through like, religion. Jesus came to tell us about the non-religious way to know our Creator.He has the inside knowledge of what is to come after we die. So, religion is a man made deterrent from knowing who put you here, why you are here and where will you go.
 
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ViaCrucis

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What is the point of being a Christian? It just doesn't make sense. What is Jesus supposed to be saving me from?

The Christian metanarrative (in a nutshell) is that the universe is Gods creation and God's purposes for creation are goodness, life, justice (etc). However there is death, violence, sin, greed, etc. The way things ought to be and the way things are are not in harmony with one another. This disconnect between how things should be and how things actually are is what we call sin. In the most basic sense "sin" means error, the term used in Hebrew is something of an archery term, meaning "to miss the mark", the Greek word means "error". There's a glitch in the system, as it were. And God, being God, is unwilling to let all things collapse into nothingness, but to heal, renew, redeem, and save creation.

Our individual salvation is part of that overarching redemptive work of God, by taking us--human beings broken and bent inward by sin--and reconciling us to God. This was done through Jesus. We speak of the Incarnation, the act of God becoming human. Jesus' work and mission is our salvation. Christ's life, death, and resurrection is a manifold work that is done for us: By it Jesus makes peace between God and man, Jesus renders the sins of man forgiven, and Jesus is victorious over death and therefore establishes resurrection, eternal life to man. And thus now, as individuals, we have the opportunity to participate in Christ and what God is doing for the world. This is the meaning and significance of the Church, the Church is not a mere religious institution or religious community, but is understood as the vehicle through which God is active in the world--through the preaching of the Gospel (the good news of what God has done and is doing, and will do through Jesus Christ), the Sacraments (through which God makes us participants and partakers of Christ and Christ's work in the world), and the good works of charity, of loving our neighbor, feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, clothing the naked, welcoming the foreigner, visiting those in prison, providing care for the sick, helping the needy, caring for widows and orphans, promoting justice for the weak and the oppressed, and so on. We do all this with hope, hope of God's renewal and restoration of all things in the future, that the dead won't stay dead, but rise again; that life, love, and the good things we share together here aren't extinguished by death, but have a lasting permanence.

It's critical to understand that I am attempting to offer the most bare bone dry summary of Christian thought here, and as such is immensely insufficient.

Ok it's more than 1 question.
But basically what is the point of following this religion?

Peace with God, peace with one another, and ultimately peace for all things in the Age to Come.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Aussie Pete

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What is the point of being a Christian? It just doesn't make sense. What is Jesus supposed to be saving me from?
Ok it's more than 1 question.
But basically what is the point of following this religion?
First and foremost, Christianity is not a religion. It is a relationship with God, who created us in His image. Our ancestor Adam chose to rebel against God. You can read the sorry account in the first few chapters of Genesis. Man's rebellion brought spiritual death. I don't know about you, but never would I consider filling my home with dead people. When we get to face God, who is totally pure and holy, who has never done any wrong, who is perfect in every way, we will have to demonstrate that we qualify to spend eternity in His home, which is heaven. The bad news is that no one qualifies. Everyone descended from Adam has a inherited birth defect, which is known as the sinful nature.

So we are disqualified from heaven. The alternative destination is a place of great suffering, loss and regret. I would not advise anyone to go there. I've had a taste of it myself.

Now God is perfectly just. Man's rebellion has consequences, as we said, spiritual death. God's holiness and righteousness means that He cannot just give people a free pass. We don't like it when offenders escape justice in our world. Unless it is us, of course. Then it's different.

The sinful nature produces sin, which is hardly surprising. Sin is anything that goes against God's principles and character. You can get an idea from the 10 commandments. They are not suggestions or recommendations. Sin is a debt that we owe God. The penalty for sin is death. The problem is that we are already dead. So how can we pay? This is where the Lord Jesus comes in. Now our understanding of God is utterly deficient until we come to know Him. God knows the impossible dilemma we have. Because he loves us, in spite of all our shortcomings, He chose to resolve the problem Himself.
God came to earth in human form. Jesus was both God and man. He was also alive spiritually, the only One who could claim that ever. Lord Jesus was also sinless. He positively obeyed God every moment of His life. He refused to do anything that God had not told Him to do. The penalty for sin is death. It has to be paid. Because Lord Jesus was sinless, He had unlimited credit, so to speak, with God. He could and did take our place as the object of God's righteous anger. If you want to know what God thinks of sin, look at the account of Jesus dying on the Cross for you. If you want to know how much God loves you, look at what He told His Son to go through for you.
The next issue is spiritual death. We may be forgiven but it is of no help if we are still dead. Lord Jesus rose from the dead so that we could be made alive with Him. As He represents us as sinners, taking our punishment for us, so He becomes our life as we rise from the dead with Him.
Why be a Christian? Mostly our focus is on how we can escape God's judgement. God's concern is what we miss out on. I've been a Christian 48 years. There have been times of great trouble. God gets me through. I've experienced things that are like heaven on earth. God is like the Father I never had. My dad hated God, hated Christians and was utterly selfish. He did the best he could, because he was brought up that way. He had reasons to be the way he was. Now God is my Father and Jesus my friend. We have a great life together. My only sadness is that more people do not know the real God. Yes, I have the utmost respect for God. He is no pushover. His character is the same. Cooperate and be blessed. Refuse to go God's way and there are consequences. But once we know God, we no longer demand our own way. We discover that his way is the best.
 
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Jonaitis

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What is the point of being a Christian?

So that we may be reconciled to our Creator, and live for him and his glory as we were created.

What is Jesus supposed to be saving me from?

Jesus saves sinners from the final judgment and the future state wherein we deserve to reside for an eternity, that we may be reconciled to our Creator and live for him the way we were intended from the beginning.

But basically what is the point of following this religion?

So that you may live the way you were created for, finding real happiness in God, instead of passing your few breaths in this life enslaved to live according to your vain desires and then be judged.

Here is my question for you:

How often do you contemplate that one day you will die, when you no longer can enjoy the things you now have? Most people are distracted with this life, with things that won't matter after they are dead.
 
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hedrick

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I think there are several purposes shown in the NT. You don't have to pick just one. I'll start from CryptoLutheran's outline of the predicament of the world.
  • The Jewish prophets had always expected God to make things right at the end. But Jesus said that now, in the middle of history, God has started that process, with him. We are challenged to join him, and in fact represent him, in reconciling the world to God and to each other. He also warned that we'd be held accountable for how we respond to that call. This is the primary theme of the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke).
  • Jesus came to bring us eternal life. This is shown throughout the New Testament, but it's a particular focus of John, and in different terms, Paul. Note that eternal life starts now.
Most Christians think that if we don't respond to the call in one or both of these forms, we'll end up in hell. So in that sense Christianity becomes a way to avoid eternal punishment. For many Christians this is the primary purpose.

I'm not convinced that Jesus would agree. And in fact I think if the primary purpose of faith is to save ourselves, I think it will tend to undermine the nature of faith. While he was not shy about talking about judgement, I don't see either him or Paul suggesting that avoiding hell is the primary purpose of faith. Indeed I think some non-Christians will almost certainly be saved, so being Christian is more about taking the responsibility for representing Christ in the world as giving us special treatment in the judgement.
 
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Vnilli

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Ok... I've read some answers. The whole thing makes no sense... Supposedly Adam "sinned"... (Who determined what sin is?) What does Adam's actions have to do with anyone else? So god holds grudges?
If I were to accept this it sounds as if I trust Jesus took on my punishment, so basically I have a free pass to do anything I want. Nevermind what is actually right and wrong.
So if Adam's sin was passed on to the rest of humanity Jesus would also have inherited it meaning he is not without sin.
Honestly this whole thing sounds very hard to believe. I really don't understand how this works. Actions aren't inherited... If my father is a murderer that does not make me a murderer.
 
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hedrick

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Ok... I've read some answers. The whole thing makes no sense... Supposedly Adam "sinned"... (Who determined what sin is?) What does Adam's actions have to do with anyone else? So god holds grudges?
If I were to accept this it sounds as if I trust Jesus took on my punishment, so basically I have a free pass to do anything I want. Nevermind what is actually right and wrong.
So if Adam's sin was passed on to the rest of humanity Jesus would also have inherited it meaning he is not without sin.
Honestly this whole thing sounds very hard to believe. I really don't understand how this works. Actions aren't inherited... If my father is a murderer that does not make me a murderer.
I’m a mainline Christian. That means I accept mainstream science and history. So I don’t see any chance that there was ever a literal Adam. Furthermore, traditional theology doesn’t exactly say we’re guilty for what he did. Well, some may, but Calvin (the founder of Reformed theology) rejected that, and so does the Eastern Church (I’m pretty sure).

A better version of the claim is that we inherit from Adam a humanity that is broken, i.e. that we are incapable of ever being perfect. If you accept evolution, and thus don’t think there could have been a literal Adam, this is still the case. Humans simply aren’t built to be perfect. We learn through trial and error, which is actually something that makes us adaptable. But between that and our tendency to prioritize our own interests and those of our close friends over everything else, we have a world that’s in serious ways broken. This isn’t a matter of faith; it’s easily visible.

Jesus came to bring a better way. By teaching, and by the inspiration of his example. But also, if Paul is right, by a spiritual connection between us and him. Furthermore, Jesus established a community of reconciliation, so that we’re not alone in this effort. It’s being part of this community of the better way that the Gospels describe as being part of the Kingdom of God.
 
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coffee4u

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Doesn't the whole thing fall apart without a literal Adam?
Does this mean you don't believe Jesus is the Messiah?

I believe there was a literal Adam and a literal garden and a literal serpent and a literal tree. Adam is also mentioned in the New Testament as a real person.
Adam sinned and that death and corruption came about because of that sin.
The Bible says In Adam all sinned. So yes, original sin was inherited by all. God said the only way to remove sin was sinless blood. No man is sinless so a person cannot simply save themselves through 'being good'. Again the Bible says none are good. This is why Jesus came because he was sinless. This is what Jesus offered, a way to wash away the sin that God sees when he looks at us by his own sinless blood. At the same time we have to accept that. Accepting Jesus also means loving God and following God. So no it isn't a licence to go and commit sin, because that would hurt God. This is also why they are saying it's a relationship. if you are in a relationship with someone you don't want to hurt someone, so it's the same thing. If you love God and have a relationship with him you will not want to sin. God knows that we are weak, and that we fail, but he continulally forgives us. Only the clean and forgiven can come before God.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Ok... I've read some answers. The whole thing makes no sense... Supposedly Adam "sinned"... (Who determined what sin is?) What does Adam's actions have to do with anyone else? So god holds grudges?

1) A literal reading of the Fall is not a prerequisite to being a Christian.
2) I think one problem here is that the idea of Original Sin is often not very well communicated
2a) Not all Christians agree with Original Sin, which is chiefly the Western perspective, the Eastern Churches have a different position on the subject.

As for who determines what is sin, sin is defined as anything that is contrary to God's will and purpose; from a judicial stand point it is a violation or transgression of God's law. So to that end, when Adam and Eve violated God's command not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they sinned. Whether the story is intended to be literal-historical or more figurative in nature is a matter of debate among Christians.

However, as far as Original Sin is concerned:

God does not hold a grudge, nor are we held responsible for Adam's failure. Instead Original Sin states that when Adam sinned it wrought a change in Adam's humanity. As the progeny of Adam, as St. Augustine argued, all human beings have inherited something called concupiscence. The literal meaning of concupiscence is something like "lust" or "desire", but it speaks of a broken desire, an inward desire. To use the language of my own Lutheran tradition humanity became homo incurvatus in se, meaning "man, curved inward upon himself". The natural appetites became bent, twisted, deformed, and disarranged. So rather than our desires being aimed outward, in love, toward God and our fellow creatures; our desires became aimed inward, toward our own selfish satisfaction. It is this bent, disordered desire that we inherited from Adam; and as such every human being is born disordered, the appetites wild and untamed, thus producing the fruits of vice such as pride, greed, malice, and the like.

We are not held accountable for what Adam did, we are held accountable to our own sinful thoughts, words, and behaviors.

Salvation is, in part, the rectifying of this malady. One of the forms of language which St. Paul uses in the New Testament is the contrast between Adam and Christ. That our humanity has been shaped, molded, and deformed in the image of Adam; but that our renewal by God's grace in Jesus means we have come to share in the new humanity of Jesus. Where Adam sinned and wrought death to the world, Christ was righteous and has brought resurrection and eternal life to the world. As St. Paul writes, "For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive."

In this sense Jesus is the recapitulation of Adam; the undoing of what Adam did. Hence the importance of the Incarnation, of God becoming man; Jesus in being human reverses things for humanity. And so union to Jesus means a sharing in Jesus' humanity, both now and yet to come. Now, as grace received in faith; and yet to come at the resurrection of the dead and the restoration of all things.

If I were to accept this it sounds as if I trust Jesus took on my punishment, so basically I have a free pass to do anything I want. Nevermind what is actually right and wrong.

There are a number of what are called "Atonement Theories", ways in which Christians have historically attempted to articulate the meaning and significance of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection. In a sense, it's an attempt to answer as succinctly and clearly what it means to say that Jesus died for us.

The idea that Jesus bore the punishment that we deserved is a specific perspective known as Penal Substitution Theory, which is chiefly associated with the Reformed Tradition of Protestantism. And since most Protestants (but by no means all) have been either directly or indirectly influenced by Reformed Theology in some form or another, Penal Substitution has become one of the most well known views in the English speaking world, and is often the de facto view of American Evangelicalism.

There are two issues with it that should be mentioned:

1) Even as popularly communicated in the modern world it is often very poorly articulated.
2) It's hardly the only view.

Roman Catholics have what is known as Satisfaction Theory, a view that goes back to St. Anselm of Canterbury (11th century), but in its present form most properly goes back to St. Thomas Aquinas (13th century). Satisfaction Theory maintains that human beings, on account of sin, are unable to satisfy the justice that is required of us, and as such God in Jesus makes satisfaction on our behalf. Where we failed to be righteous, Christ was righteous. Penal Substitution says much the same, but goes further in saying that God punished Jesus in our place--that idea is foreign from Satisfaction Theory.

But, even here, this hardly covers everything. In the Eastern Churches neither Penal Substitution nor Satisfaction Theory are taught, rather the language which the Orthodox Churches use reflects some of the most ancient views in Christianity: Recapitulation and Ransom.

I've already hinted a bit about Recapitulation Theory, that Christ undoes what Adam did. That is the essence of Recapitulation Theory.

Ransom Theory, in its full expression speaks of how through sin mankind has fallen captive to the devil, and it is the devil who wields death and suffering over us. And so God, out of love, offers His own Son, Jesus, as a ransom on behalf of the world. Christ's in offering Himself up to death, pays the price of ransom and the devil thinks he's won a victory against God. However God in a sense tricks the trickster, and so Christ's death is not true defeat, but is instead the beginning of the end for the devil. In dying Christ entered hell* and set it to ruin, setting captives free, defeated death and the devil, and by rising from the dead has secured victory over sin, death, hell, and the devil for all men.

*This refers to what's known as the Harrowing of Hell in Christianity.

My personal beliefs are best described as Christus Victor, which a modern, western take on the Recapitulation and Ransom Theories. I also don't reject Satisfaction Theory, to the extent of Christ's making satisfaction of God's justice through His own righteousness.

I personally have issues with Penal Substitution Theory.

So if Adam's sin was passed on to the rest of humanity Jesus would also have inherited it meaning he is not without sin.

There have been attempts to try and explain how Jesus avoided inherited Original Sin. The Roman Catholic way of addressing this is their teaching on the immaculate conception of Mary, that is, Mary was conceived by a special grace, on account of her future Child, Jesus, to be without sin. Thus Mary was conceived without Original Sin in order that she could be the pure vessel through which Jesus Christ was conceived. Mary's Immaculate Conception is rooted in Christ's own work; that is it is in a sense a retroactive work where Christ's Atonement works backward to protect His own mother from Original Sin. Or at least that's the very sloppy way of putting it, and since I'm not Roman Catholic I've probably misconstrued it somewhere.

As a Lutheran I would simply put forward that however it happened, Christ was uniquely conceived without sin. The details are unknown and unknowable. But that's a pretty typical way for a Lutheran to do things, we tend to avoid a lot of speculation, and are content to let [seeming] contradictions and paradoxes just be. If it doesn't make sense, well that's still okay.

Honestly this whole thing sounds very hard to believe. I really don't understand how this works. Actions aren't inherited... If my father is a murderer that does not make me a murderer.

You're right, which is why you didn't inherit Adam's actions. The historic idea of Original Sin doesn't suggest you have either. Only that you--like everyone else--has inherited a humanity which is broken by sinfulness.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Phil W

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What is the point of being a Christian? It just doesn't make sense. What is Jesus supposed to be saving me from?
Ok it's more than 1 question.
But basically what is the point of following this religion?
Welcome aboard Vnilli,
The point is this, so we can love others as we are loved by God.
Jesus saves us from service to sin.
We don't have to serve the "flesh" anymore.
 
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Kenny'sID

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What is the point of being a Christian? It just doesn't make sense. What is Jesus supposed to be saving me from?
Ok it's more than 1 question.
But basically what is the point of following this religion?

To stay out of Hell.

Jesus saves us from Hell
 
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Albion

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What is the point of being a Christian? It just doesn't make sense. What is Jesus supposed to be saving me from?
..eternal estrangement from God and the never-ending anguish that comes with the realization, perhaps? Or punishment for your wrongdoing? Or knowing that you forfeited the most wonderful afterlife imaginable?
 
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Albion

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I'm just saying the thought process is the same. Believing in Jesus in order to stay out of hell is the same mode of thinking that carrying a rabbit foot will prevent bad luck.
I guess we will just have to disagree. Billions of Christians who believe in the saving work of Jesus and the promises our faith makes to people who accept him as Lord and Savior are not in the least thinking that, if they do this or that deed, God will reward them with heaven.

But they do believe that Christianity is the religion that alone holds the prospect of eternal life--so that is the straightforward answer to the question.
 
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Vnilli

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It actually does sound like primitive superstition.
Accept Jesus so you don't go to hell for eternity.
It sounds like a scare tactic to indoctrinate children and get life long followers. It seems to work.
It seems the answer to my question lies in mythology and superstition.
Thanks for your answers everyone.
 
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Resha Caner

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It actually does sound like primitive superstition.
Accept Jesus so you don't go to hell for eternity.
It sounds like a scare tactic to indoctrinate children and get life long followers. It seems to work.
It seems the answer to my question lies in mythology and superstition.
Thanks for your answers everyone.

I think you drew your conclusion a bit too quickly.
 
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