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I did not mean that the LORD told me to leave just that I would. For you to say anything else is dishonet.
Icedragon said:But you are insensitive and you are butting in. you really should check you attitude at the fourm door. You've take this way to far, wrote way to much kept it going far to long and have to get the last word in. this is simply a matter of pride now let it go, ego is getting the better of you. I clarifed the statment because you did not understand what I said and put words in my mouth and twisted what is said. I think you need to ask youself where is the end point for you. when are you going to stop.
Icedragon said:As far as people questioning there will always be question. people will always have doubts. As far as "faithful Adventist" I resent you statment. until NOV 06 you would have considered me in you camp. To be a "faithful adventist" as you say is to lie to my self. I know way to much about adventist history to be what you call "faithful" to be that is to be blind and unfaithful to God. God says to "test the spirits for many false prophets have gone out into the world" I did that and EGW failed. Sorry you don't like that, it must be tough for you.
Icedragon said:Reality is hard to deal with I know. but when tought questions come they either make your faith by leading you to real answers or break your faith. apperantly there is nothing behind you claims, critics force you to face reality and reality can be very harsh. there are no free passes given to intellectual intergity. you either have or you don't. either what you believe is real on it is fiction. if it is real it will stand, if it won't then you will have a hard life.
Actually he has asked to discuss the issues numerous times. And when he came here he was not thinking of leaving the church.
And since you have mostly just called for him to leave and have not tried to answer his questions you have not, from my perspective, earned the right to ask him to leave.
Tall73 said:If you want to really help him then convince him that he is wrong and that the voice he heard is not of God because the Bible says otherwise. But telling him to leave does not answer any of his questions.
Tall73 said:People who have tried to discuss issues that they are dealing with have been largely criticized rather than answered with biblical information.
Jim, OntheDL and Jon are the exceptions as they have been very helpful in talking things through with us in the denominational specific forum. I thank them for that, and they have helped me re-examine at least a couple of points so far, though they have not convinced me on a number of others.
Tall73 said:But have you done what you could to help him with the issues he is struggling with?
We are not responsible for your friends who VOLUNTARILY look at threads that are discussing things. If they don't want to discuss an issue skip the thread. The rules permit us to discuss.
Tall73 said:ice is now pretty sure he is leaving. Why, do you want to hurry him along to what you believe is destruction at the worst or delusion at the least?
Tall73 said:And as to Woob, I am not sure what he has to do with this. He is sincere, but he is not traditional on the point we have the most questions about. He believes the IJ started in Peter's time. Therefore he rejects the traditional view.
Tall73 said:I am here becaues I was here before this all came up.
Tall73 said:Ice is here because I recommended the forum to him. He was not asking these questions then. We talked over some of the issues but he really didn't even get what I was saying. He then saw it one day in the text of Daniel 8, and started to put together what he was reading in the history.
Then he started asking questions so that he could TEST the voice he heard to see if it was from God.
Now again, what are you doing to help this man who is trying to make an important choice in his faith?
wooba's posts have made me think, so he (she?) has done some good. Come back dude. (or girl).
Hey, woob, there are people who will make you upset on both sides of the spectrum here. Religion and politics are two things that cause the most emotion and anger when debated. Don't get angry, you just have to accept that. Come back Woob, I am sure your comments have helped people. People disagree and fight, that is the way of life. Perhaps we can find a way on this forum to have some peace but right now I don't see that that will happen.
I did not mean that the LORD told me to leave just that I would. For you to say anything else is dishonet.
Icedragon101 said:the lord told me 2 years ago "I was not going to be an SDA any longer " At the time I dismissed the comment. I had no desire to leave. still don't. but I can't find a way to resolve the prophetic issues then I guess I have to leave.
What does this say?
Right now I am thoroughly fed up with this forum! I don't see Jesus in here. All I see is a bunch of mean-spirited people in here.
I had hoped that this would be an encouraging place, but I don't think that is possible anymore.
This place just plain old sucks!
Goodbye!
I did not mean that the LORD told me to leave just that I would. For you to say anything else is dishonet.
Oh for pete's sake! I did not call him to leave. I merely commented that if GOD indeed told him to leave, then he cannot debate in here. Now suddenly the Lord didn't convict him.
I will let you in on a little secret. Woob did not leave. He pmed me about this very thread and we talked for a bit.Tall, Icedragon is quite capable of talking for himself on this issue. Friends of mine, like Wooba, however, are leaving and can't express their concerns without a major forum lashing.
Why is that?
Sorry, but you don't know what I know.He's already made up his mind and you know it.
He won't answer any of my direct questions so the conversation really isn't working.
trustandobey said:The more people cut her down, the more I am starting to believe too. And honestly, I think people are leaving because they are tired of having to defend her writings etc and they'd like to just be mainstream and fly over the radar without any controversy.
What jab? I said that jon and DL and Jim had been helpful. That is not a jab.Why the jab? Why is it up to these people to convince you that you're wrong when you're an Adventist pastor and are taking tithe money from people that accepted our doctrine? And when did this become about you anyway?
Actually they are two different issues. One is about an internet forum which I have said again and agian NO ONE needs to leave. It is for discussion. The other is about the church which you feel is the remnant but you have no problem with telling people to leave.You're not responsible for my friends, but I'm responsible for yours? Are you seeing the irony here?
So did the Lord convict you to tell him to get moving then?It's somehow up to me to convince Ice to stay when the Lord told him not to? The Lord didn't convict ME of what YOU are trying to, I'm sorry.
And read what he also said that he didn't understand what it meant and that he was not wanting to leave.Okay, read those words very carefully. "Ice is now pretty sure he is leaving". He said the Lord CONVICTED him to leave....I'm not hurrying anyone, and would love for him to stay, but if he's not Adventist he can't debate in here and that is ALL I was saying.
Woob didn't leave the forum, and you interjected him into your statement about ice's insincerity.Tall, Wooba started this thread because he's leaving the forum. He has EVERYTHING to do with this thread.
Answerd above.I never asked you why you were here. I'm not sure how this became about you.
Because woob was leaving (or not leaving as the case may be) an internet forum.I'm doing about the same thing as Ice did to Wooba when Wooba stated he was leaving the forum. Why aren't you asking Ice why he would just bid Wooba farewell without asking HIM to stay?
The Lord told you to leave Adventism yet your not going to listen?
If you truly believe God told you to leave and your not leaving then I would call that a sin. I honestly don't believe God told you that because I truly believe this is the last day church however I won't call you a liar just a fool. Your either disobeying God(a great sin) or your misleading people into believing you had a conversation with God you never had.
Forgive me if I misunderstood something.
Hey, sounds like you've made up your mind. Which is ironic since Tall keeps accusing me of "not doing my part" to get you to stay.
Why would I try to get you to stay? If God told you not to, then why would I try to interfere in that?
But NE, this is an Adventist forum.
I haven't seen Woobadooba trying to convince ice of the traditional IJ. And you won't because Woob doesn't believe it. Were you here trying to kick out woob when he was arguing that in the Adventist forum?Wooba has no plans to leave Adventism, he loves what we stand for and he defends what he believes with every fiber of his being.
I do know that Wooba can defend himself, trust me that I know this. He isn't here right now though. I'm not going to sit here quietly while I watch good Adventist people leave this forum....
What he said was that God told him of a future event that he did not understand until recently. Now if you think it wasn't God then why are you trying to urge him to take the advice of the voice?Icedragon is here to defend himself. He just can't figure out how to undo what he's already said.
You told him he should leave and that he should not be able to post.
Tall73 said:Do you actually believe it was the voice of God telling him this?
Tall73 said:I assume since you believe that Adventists are the remnant that you don't believe the voice is really true. So why would you encourage him to listen to what you must surely think is a delusion and leave without trying to address the numerous issues he has raised?
Tall73 said:I know him personally as he mentioned and I can attest that he was not questioning these things until recently. He was trying to reconcile things and hoped the voice wasn't true.
Now that he has been here and trying to discuss (and he has also talked things over with at least three SDA professors that I know of), he has been told that he is attacking the church because he has learned things that don't match what he always believed.
And have you tried to convince him otherwise? Or have you just pointed out that he is on his way out, may as well hurry and leave you all alone?
Tall73 said:I will let you in on a little secret. Woob did not leave. He pmed me about this very thread and we talked for a bit.
For that matter he has left and come back three or four times now. He just needs a break at times as we all do.
If your friends leave it is by their own choice. They have a choice about what discussions to participate in.
Tall73 said:Now, again, the issue is did you try to help ice who is frustrated with the church or did you try to run him off?
Tall73 said:Sorry, but you don't know what I know.
About a week ago or so he made the decision that EGW is definitely not a prophet. He did not make the decision to leave yet, though I agree that may well happen.
I may be following him eventually. Do you want to tell me to get out too?
Tall73 said:We are not considering leaving because we hate the church but because we CANNOT RESOLVE theological issues. There is a simple solution for that for those who believe they have all the truth--EXPLAIN how we are wrong.
Tall73 said:But only a few have really tried to help, mostly Jon, DL and Jim who have spent a good deal of time interacting.
Now what have you done? And if you don't know the issues well enough, why not pray for ice and hope for his reconciliation to what you believe is the remnant church? Why not plead with God to save him from this delusion if he is wrong?
You had not even read a single EGW book until recently, if you even finished it now. Yet you said this on the 7th of May of those who had issues with her:
Tall73 said:Who are you to say why others are doing this?
You say that people have "cut her down." So any question is cutting down? What happened to testing the prophets? How would you possibly know if it was cutting down or not? You hadn't read anything.
Dr. Loh is not an Adventist. This is a forum with an ecumenical mission statment.
Tall73 said:What he said was that God told him of a future event that he did not understand until recently. Now if you think it wasn't God then why are you trying to urge him to take the advice of the voice?
Because woob was leaving (or not leaving as the case may be) an internet forum.
You are trying to get ice to leave what you believe is the remnant church.
So again, why don' you pray for ice and not keep trying to run him off from the church?
I know the T&O has me on ignore, but she quoted it and it does not say God told you to leave. You would think that a person would allow that another's person's experience would outweigh their interpretation of the words relating that experience and stop arguing about it.
I recommend you leave her comments alone and see them for what they are.
I'm not telling anyone to go anywhere. I simply stated that when someone says the Lord CONVICTED them that they won't be Adventist anymore, they cannot debate in the Adventist forum.
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