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tall73

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Yes, nothing is guaranteed. But you were not lied to. Following God's will is preferable to sin, even when it hurts.

You might try reading Jeremiah who also felt deceived and that his lot was difficult (and it was). Yet he still remained faithful. Continue to do what is right for God's sake.

In the meantime if you are in a remote area you have limited options. You mentioned instagram. But you may have to try dating platforms. Spell out exactly what you are looking for. You will get less interest, but the interest you get will be of the sort you want.

And search for profiles that stipulate what you want and try to contact. Some survey data indicates that men still wind up initiating most conversations even online.

Or you could move.

Or you could reconsider whether your partner has to have the same history as you.

But, despite them not being the majority, there are people who are on the same page with you.

And ultimately, if you die having never been married being faithful to God is best. But it can be hard to wait. And talking it through is not bad.

I am glad I waited. And in my case I met my wife at a Christian College. But a relative, who went to the same college, didn't find someone there. She met her husband on a Christian dating site.

Either way, short of God giving specific directions for who to marry and how to find her, you may need to reach out in more places.

God bless
 
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Leaf473

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So I haven't read every post on this thread, so maybe this has been talked about already.

Have you thought about online dating sites? Even if only a small percentage of people meet your criteria, you might still be able to end up with 10 or 20 women that you could meet when you're doing your drive around North America trip.

Just a brainstorm idea.
 
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Halbhh

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I've good really good news -- Let God take care of it -- pray and trust in Him... about this:
So, I have to ask: Is it unreasonable of me to prefer to date/marry a woman who has also waited?

Maybe, but not necessarily(!)...

God takes broken things and makes them whole.

Rahab was a prostitute in Jericho.

God redeemed her.

She became the wife of the righteous man Salmon, and from them came Boaz, the good man that married Ruth, a foreign widow.

And from the line of the prostitute Rahab and her husband Salmon came also King David, and Joseph and Mary, the Earthly parents of Christ.

Look and see (and I'll also bold another instance in the genealogy involving murder and adultery, but God makes broken things whole....)

5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,
6and Jesse the father of King David.
David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah’s wife,
7Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
Abijah the father of Asa,
...
15Elihud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.
Matthew 1 NIV

So, trust in God to help you, and don't rely on just your own judgement alone.... His ways are deeper than our ways, and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts.
 
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tall73

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We should indeed trust God. He may value more than what we assess.

Boaz still got to inquiring when he saw Ruth. Looking around for what God may intend is not out of step with trusting.

Rth 2:4 And behold, Boaz came from Bethlehem. And he said to the reapers, “The LORD be with you!” And they answered, “The LORD bless you.”
Rth 2:5 Then Boaz said to his young man who was in charge of the reapers, “Whose young woman is this?”
Rth 2:6 And the servant who was in charge of the reapers answered, “She is the young Moabite woman, who came back with Naomi from the country of Moab.
 
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Smylie

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I don't expect a woman I like to appear as soon as I snap my fingers. This whole "episode" started when I realized that the odds of me finding the type of women I thought were present in the faith are incredibly low. I honestly thought that it was reasonable for women in the faith to have the courage to say "no" to things that they know they should do, as I have.

I'm not sure expecting Christian women not to commit the sin of fornication is a fantasy? It's Christianity 101. This is the issue- how women (and men, obviously) do things they know are wrong, justify them, and then cast stones when people point it out.
First, many women who fall into the non-virgin statistical category are hardly women who slept around or were "loose women," and yet that idea seems to lay behind much of what you wrote to us.
I don't believe I ever mentioned the number of sexual partners a woman has as a factor. Whether it's 1 or 10, the result is still the same.
I'm well aware of this fact. I'm not perfect, nor am I claiming to be. I genuinely thought that having the expectation that woman of the faith would follow the directives of said faith was reasonable. Why have any directives at all if they aren't followed?
My issue isn't the physical act of sex. I'm concerned about what it does to the mind and the heart. This kind of baggage is strong and is always present. Everyone remembers their first time.
I've tried dating platforms- haven't had any luck.
Or you could reconsider whether your partner has to have the same history as you.
I mean, why did I put myself through the agony of waiting if I was just going to marry someone who didn't? What was the point of waiting, partly in hopes that my future wife would do the same for me, if it isn't a conceivable reality?
Have you thought about online dating sites? Even if only a small percentage of people meet your criteria, you might still be able to end up with 10 or 20 women that you could meet when you're doing your drive around North America trip.
Yes, as I mentioned above, I haven't had any luck with them. The vast majority of the users of these sites tend to skew older. Young people use hookup apps like Tinder, which is obviously more akin to a nightclub than a church.
 
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URA

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23 years old, male, feel strongly called to marriage. Never had sex, but certainly "have a history" with one girl in particular...these things linger. I totally see your concern with someone who's had physical intimacy with someone before; the neurological impact of a previous relationship, especially a very physical one, is something that stays wired in the brain for long after its over. But then, so does the impact of caffeine, television, trauma, and countless other things...don't think a previous relationship is the only thing that could threaten intimacy. Anything can; it's working around this things that makes fidelity a virtue. Love is sacrificial, and everyone has baggage, including you. Keep in mind the reality of "Slavery to sin"...sexual sin is not the only threat to relationships. Surely prevalent & serious, but as soon as money becomes involved, that's a whole new realm of opportunities for sin; someone used to buying everything may become more of a headache than someone who slept with someone else 10 years ago.

This has certainly been an interesting set of replies; heed the wisdom of each of them. I get the feeling of betrayal by man when living for God. Ever since I found a good talk on keeping the Sabbath holy on a CD in the back of church, I have maintained Sundays as a day of rest, worship, and friendship for all of my college career. My first college wasn't officially Christian, but had a very strong Christian population; my second was a Catholic college, with overwhelmingly Roman Catholic & Protestant Christians. It took 4 years for me to find a single other person who honored Sundays--and that made for a strong friendship between us.

Since you're considering traveling, I honestly doubt this will work to find a "soulmate". Perhaps you travel to Cincinnati, find a magnificent young lady, super active in her church....and then what? You're traveling for 6 months, presumably to multiple locations across that time....do you want to ask about her virginity after knowing her for 1 month? And then move to her city, or expect her to move to yours? The housing market is wacky right now, and I have no idea how immigration works.

Having moved around a lot for 2 different colleges in 2 different states & a few summer jobs with their own location & set of people, I assure you, it takes longer than a few months to find a good lady, find out if she's single, develop a friendship (a key predecessor to developing a relationship), and then develop enough intimacy to ask the kind of questions that are on your mind.

If you're going to travel, I would highly recommend a pilgrimage to a monastery. Any pilgrimage is surely a good way to travel (I've seen the fantastic "Walking the Bible" videos, which is powerful enough on its own), but I specifically mention monasteries because these are people who have chosen to reject the very thing you have rejected, but so many monks & nuns & devoted religious folk of all kinds have found great freedom in this rejection. If you're going to take a trip to the US anyway, make it a spiritual one--surround yourself with the wisdom of those who have rejected the ways of the world, and just take some time to pray, to learn, to be who you were meant to be. Many monasteries offer the option of personal retreats, and some even function as a bed & breakfast, giving you a good surrounding, surely a good way to talk to people, but also explore the surrounding area to see who you can meet.

God bless your journey.
 
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turkle

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I mean, why did I put myself through the agony of waiting if I was just going to marry someone who didn't? What was the point of waiting, partly in hopes that my future wife would do the same for me, if it isn't a conceivable reality?
Because the most important thing to a Christian is to be obedient to God.

Clearly this is an important issue to you. As a result, you have waited. That's good. God told us to give ourselves to one person because it is the best thing for us.

You are responsible for your choices. Your future wife is responsible for hers. There is a real possibility that you could meet a lady who is compatible with you who is not a virgin. What will you do? Can you have the maturity to accept her past as much as she will need to accept yours?

Sex is not the only thing that causes baggage. It's a big one, but there are lots of other things as well. When you know that you have found someone that compliments you in most ways, it is up to you to understand that the rest is in the past, and leave it there. You will both bring baggage into the marriage, and it needs to be understood, forgiven, and then you start a new beginning together.

Most importantly, is she a Godly woman? Is she honest? Is she devoted? Is she kind? If so, it would be unwise to overlook her because of her past.
 
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Smylie

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and that's the mindset I was referring to.
Not quite sure what you're referring to.
What would I do? I would say something to the tune of, "I'm sorry, but as someone who has not had sexual relations with someone previously, I don't feel comfortable being with someone who has done so. I will not be able to fully commit to a relationship with you emotionally because of this, and that is not fair to you." The reality is, I have no romantic past. I've never been in a committed relationship- I stopped bothering when everyone started fornicating at 14/15/16. The only baggage that I'll bring to a relationship is the baggage of not fornicating, apparently.
 
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URA

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To give something more tangible...here's a list of ministry opportunities, mostly for a year or less, that you could consider doing. Many provide housing, transportation, and a deeply spiritual environment.

Ministry Opportunities (with housing!)

The Monastery of the Holy Cross in Chicago is an absolutely beautiful place. I've toured it & listened to their evening vespers, a prayer service that is sung majestically.

Retreats

UPDATE: I forgot about this one! I interviewed to work here, so I learned a lot about it. While not a monastery, they have a large area, staff, and not too far from Chicago, if you want to visit both these places on an extended retreat of multiple locations. Much of their retreats are focused on healing; they say it's incredible how many people come through in such dire situations, and come out with a sense of peace. The 2-day retreats they specialize in live out the Paschal Mystery, by focusing on the Crucifixion, the time Jesus spent buried when nothing much was going on, and the glorious Resurrection.

PERSONAL RETREATS - LA SALLE MANOR

It shouldn't be hard to find more places that offer retreats, this is just the only one I've visited.
 
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Unqualified

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@Smylie I encourage you to follow God wherever He leads. You are obviously strong and of good moral fiber. You need to be in a church and possibly find an eighteen year old with the same values. Or stay single and endure that people are not as good as you in a matter of speaking. I admire you that when I got over my fornicating days and decided to obey God…. When I met a girl I could marry we didn’t have sex before marriage. It’s difficult for you in your younger years. But God put us together and blessed us like He possibly will you. It’s hard to find a good wife to your liking. Maybe in Israel.

You are doing the right thing. The world is not that way. The world is upside down. Be strong to the strength of you convictions. The rapture is coming soon only a few years more or less. Hang on, God is good, but be prepared to go the distance. That’s where your strength lies, whatever God wants. Pray and take your trip, be available and maybe God will bless you this time or another. You are good marriage material. Remember to love her like Christ loves the church and does not control her every move.
 
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enoob57

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I'm just very frustrated by the fact that I've done everything that has been asked of me via the directives in the bible and essentially nobody else has.
This reality should encourage you on this stand… special is as special does, no I’m not Forest, but I wish to remind you each soul will appear before Jesus singularly and then the numbers will be of no consideration… God will honor you when you honor Him!
 
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Leaf473

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Yes, as I mentioned above, I haven't had any luck with them. The vast majority of the users of these sites tend to skew older. Young people use hookup apps like Tinder, which is obviously more akin to a nightclub than a church.
I hear what you're saying. I'm thinking it's a numbers game.

Suppose a Christian dating site has 10,000 women on it. 95% of them are too old.

That still leaves 500. Suppose 98% don't meet your criteria. That still leaves 10.

I'd be interested in hearing the details of your online dating experiences so far, if you're willing to tell them. There may be a clue that could be helpful.
 
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Sketcher

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Hi everyone.

I'm a 25-year-old who has been a Christian his entire life . . . I have personally never engaged in any sexual activities with another individual.
Hello. I'm older than you, and I haven't either.

This is extremely hard to do as a man in today's culture where virgins are laughed at and demeaned.
I know, trust me. There are also people who will have respect for that - but don't expect them to maintain that respect if you make public your preference for someone who is also a virgin. This is a flaw in their values.

I would be interested to see the exact surveys you are referencing. How many of those 80% though had sex with people other than those they married, though? That 80% would include engaged couples who had only had sex with each other, but missed the mark as far as waiting for the wedding night. That's less than good, but not as bad as promiscuity.

I feel like I've been lied to, betrayed, and that I've wasted my time by waiting. The primary reason we wait is to honor God.
Why, exactly do you feel like you have been lied to, betrayed, and that you've wasted your time? You've honored God for a few years, nothing to regret about that. You made positive decisions before you decided to honor God - why should you regret that? What was the lie? What was the betrayal?

I've had some disappointments with society and the church in this area too, but it has more to do with the attitudes of people who frown on wanting someone who has waited (i.e. contributing the same in this area to a relationship that I bring), people who don't want partners who are virgins (I'm not going to hook up or see a prostitute in order to prepare for somebody), and people who lie to themselves and to others about what sex does (the two becoming one flesh). With the possible exception of people in the church latching onto those beliefs and snipping at me (the default expectation for Christians is that we'll love one another), none of that really counts as betrayal to me.

Waiting to have sex has caused me to miss out on friendships, relationships, and experiences.
Experiences, that's self-evident. But those experiences leave many Christians with regret.

Relationships, maybe, but you don't know how long those are going to last. Besides, if a woman wants to sleep with you on the first date in real life, you're probably not the only person she's done that with, and you're probably just part of an unhealthy pattern of bad relationships in her life. The quality of relationship you missed out on by not choosing to hook up is probably not a good one.

Friendships? I am puzzled as to why you mentioned that. I have built friendships on much better foundations than willingness to fornicate over the years. If the price of friendships is a willingness to sleep around, I'm wondering if that's the price of admission to a truly deviant lifestyle that I want nothing to do with.

Now, I'm 25, self-employed, and I have no friends. I live in a frozen wasteland (Canada) in a tiny retirement town and I haven't seen a girl in real life under the age of 35 since 2018, let alone a Christian girl.
Why do you live there? Why do you work there? Is there a church with young people nearby?

So, I have to ask: Is it unreasonable of me to prefer to date/marry a woman who has also waited?
No. You're contributing it, you can expect it back. And if we go with half-your-age-plus-seven-rounding-up, you're young enough to respectably date women as young as 20. There are going to be more virgins between 20 and 25 than there will be between 25 and 30, let alone over 30. There's more to what makes a woman a good wife than just that of course, but you're probably not interested in virgins with terrible values, and waiting for marriage does have value. Don't let people shame you into trying to think otherwise.

Hey, I understand. While saving one's self for marriage does not guarantee that the person won't cheat later, many who fornicate remain in touch or get back in touch, and many of them get back together for flings. You don't need that. (This can also happen if people were in a relationship that didn't go all the way but was interrupted, i.e. two teenagers were dating and one of them had to move - another thing to watch out for.)

Knowing married couples has actually solidified my my standards on this even more. I didn't ask for this information, but a married couple that is close to me had confided in me that they were arguing about whether one of them can think about past partners to get off. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" was brought up, and since both had pasts, that was enough to bring them both into agreement to not do that. In other words, one partner with a past wasn't letting it go, and the other partner's past had to be weaponized in order get the first partner to stop. I don't want a relationship like that. I don't want to need to play that card, or acquire that card to play. I want to save myself and be faithful, and I want to marry someone who saved herself, and will be faithful.

The problem is, every woman who isn't a virgin anymore and ceased to wait came to a similar conclusion. As have men who ceased to wait, came to a similar conclusion, and decreased the number of virgin women out there, and also increased the body counts of the non-virgin women out there. You would be contributing to your own problem because you're not becoming more marriageable, nor are you making women more marriageable if you go down that path.

A good friend of mine in the Lord has a past. He has said, that if you don't break it, God doesn't have to fix it.

Since God doesn't guarantee to fix it (even though he will forgive you), I don't suggest going out, breaking it, and expecting him to fix it when you come around back. That's a form of putting him to the test (Matt 4:6-7).

That, and when you stand before God, "everybody else was doing it" won't be an excuse. As a Christian, and as an individual, you must do the right thing, even if it is unpopular. The wrong thing is still wrong to do.
I was planning to travel around the USA soon for 6 months, and one of my motivations for doing so was the prospect of meeting a Godly woman who is a virgin like me (if I'm being honest). Now, I don't feel like there's any point.
Virgin or not, I wouldn't expect to meet a good future wife on a 6 month trip to multiple locations in a large country. I mean, it could happen, but you could also meet her in Canada.

the reality is that if I had done what everybody else seems to do, I'd have had many girlfriends or been married by now because fornication wouldn't have been an issue to me.
With easy divorce these days, there's a good chance that would end in divorce, both of you would have been selfish. If you're avoiding divorce, you're coming out ahead, you do not need that pain and that baggage and those legal consequences.
 
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BobRyan

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My 2 daughters are in their 30's and have never dated - and they are not convinced this world is in a condition to promote the existence of very many young Christian men who have also been single as God would have it. At the same time they also do not feel God is leading them to seek marriage because of the condition of things on Earth.
 
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Neogaia777

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You have a couple of very wise daughters.

You (and your wife) must have done something right...

God Bless!
 
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mikeforjesus

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The below is a christian article and I wonder if it is really accurate how people think if christians are ever honest for a sincere Christian to pursue a relationship with anyone if they have sinned if people are truly repentant and they do not really accept Christ but only pretend to be christian but hate others who have not sinned to think them awkward that what they do means nothing to think them stupid to think they are doing anything that means anything for it to even be right and purposely avoid them because they think low of them if none of them are honest even those who have not sinned if their thinking is against Christ with the world if they do not value anyone for treasuring God commandments to be abstinent till marriage for if not I would not want to get involved with anyone even if I wanted to get married but I decided not to marry unless God has spoken to me to marry.

What Happens To Men Who Stay Abstinent Until Marriage?
 
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Paidiske

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I honestly thought that it was reasonable for women in the faith to have the courage to say "no" to things that they know they should do, as I have.

Maybe. But if what you're finding is that you cannot actually find such women (who meet your other criteria and are eligible for marriage), perhaps it wasn't as reasonable as you thought. Or perhaps courage isn't the issue, and there are other things going on. Or perhaps those women are there and you aren't encountering them.

Either way, you expected something you haven't found... the point is that you need to correct your expectations, rather than be upset at what you have found.

I'm not sure expecting Christian women not to commit the sin of fornication is a fantasy?

You have to deal with what's in front of you. Are you meeting or coming across such women? No? Then it wasn't reality.

This is the issue- how women (and men, obviously) do things they know are wrong, justify them, and then cast stones when people point it out.

I'm married, and haven't done what you're saying every woman does. So I know there are women who wait. But, would I have been the sort of woman you're looking for in other ways? Perhaps not.

I'm not casting stones, though. I'm trying to point out to you that you can't change the people around you. If you're currently struggling, on some level you're going to have to change, in order to resolve that struggle.

I mean, why did I put myself through the agony of waiting if I was just going to marry someone who didn't?

I think this is sort of what some of us are trying to get at. If you only waited because you thought it would mean getting a spouse who had waited also, you kind of missed the point. Waiting was the right thing to do, no matter the history of your future spouse, and was no guarantee of anything about that future spouse.

The only baggage that I'll bring to a relationship is the baggage of not fornicating, apparently.

I'm going to suggest that the baggage of bitterness and entitlement will cause you far more problems than some people's baggage with a sexual past will ever cause them.
 
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Smylie

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Imagine spending a week studying for a test. You say no to parties, you sacrifice your sleep, etc. Then, on the day of the test, the teacher says, "Raise your hand if you studied for the test." You raise your hand but nobody else does. The teacher then proceeds to say, "Since nobody studied for the test, we're not going to take it- everybody passes." You raise an objection to this, as this test was said to be incredibly important for passing the class. Everyone then laughs at you and say something to the tune of, "You didn't really expect people to study for the test, did you?" You then say, "But it was stated at the beginning of the year that passing this test was a requirement for graduating this class..." and everyone begins to get mad at you. "It's your fault that you studied for the test- don't be mad at us for not doing so." You decide to take the test anyway, because you want to get the best job you can in the future. During your job interview, you state that you took the test (even though everyone else didn't) and the interviewer says, "That's cool- we don't care about that test anymore." The interviewer calls every employee into the interview room and asks them, "Did you passes this test?" 99% of the employees say they haven't and laugh at you for doing so.

The above illustrates exactly how I feel.

"Women are allowed to have sex with whoever they want and you just have to accept it. Expecting women of the Christian faith to abstain from the sin of fornication was unreasonable and your unwillingness to accept this makes you a terrible person. Either accept this or die alone- your feelings don't matter. It was stupid of you to think that your future wife would do the same for you- she doesn't owe you anything. Oh, but you don't get to sleep with anyone, because fornication is a sin. Yeah, everyone else does, but you just have to sit there and remain a good little boy because that's what God wants." This is what I've gotten out of this. This doesn't seem like something a loving God would do to me, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe those who sin knowingly know something I don't, and I'm the fool here.
 
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Paidiske

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"Women are allowed to have sex with whoever they want and you just have to accept it.


Pretty much. God's given them free will, and if they choose unwisely, that's up to them.

Expecting women of the Christian faith to abstain from the sin of fornication was unreasonable and your unwillingness to accept this makes you a terrible person.


Having expectations of other people at all, rather than accepting them as you find them, may be closer to the issue.

Having got to this point doesn't make you a terrible person. But it also isn't going to help you now, either in terms of making peace with your situation, or in terms of finding a spouse. Something's going to have to give for you.

Either accept this or die alone- your feelings don't matter.


Your feelings do matter. You're clearly suffering, and nobody wants that for you. But the way out of your suffering is likely to be a change of attitude to your situation.

It was stupid of you to think that your future wife would do the same for you- she doesn't owe you anything.


Stupid? Not really. I've seen a lot of purity cult propaganda along those lines out there, and it's not surprising that you internalised it. But as lots of young people are finding, the purity cult and its propaganda have not lived up to their hype in all sorts of ways.

And no; no woman owes you anything in this regard. She owes you faithfulness from the day you commit to one another, but while you get to decide you can't live with someone's past, the world does not owe you a potential spouse with a past you approve of.

Oh, but you don't get to sleep with anyone, because fornication is a sin.

Well, it's your choice, but I wouldn't recommend it.

This doesn't seem like something a loving God would do to me, but maybe I'm wrong.

Is it God's doing at all?
 
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