I can feel it lifting

[raven1]

This fear I am going to hell a very little bit. Starting to worry about dying and there be nothing more. Searching for evidence God and heaven are real and nothing is helping. No books I read the case for Christ. Evidence of a afterlife. Etc is helping.

 

[babegirl111]

I believe your obsession may be causing you to feel like you "need evidence". Ive read some of your past posts but im not entirely familiar with what your going through, but that feeling of doubt could just very well be your OCD and I think it is

 

[tripletiger1200]

Are you saying the fear is lifting? I was a little confused by your wording. If your fear is disappearing that is a really good thing

 

[raven1]

If my fear lifts but doubt stays thats bad.

 

[tripletiger1200]

It may seem bad, because then it feels like the thoughts are welcome, but in truth they are not. I'm kind of in your same boat now, my fear is almost gone, but I still struggle with intrusive thoughts. At first is scared me because I doubted that it was OCD anymore, but now that the fear has diminished for a while it has actually helped because my intrusive thoughts and doubts don't feed into that cycle of fear like they used to, so they don't pop up as often and stick around as long. Just keep praying raven, I'll be praying for you too

 

[fealty77]

Hey Raven. I actually went to therapy today and asked my therapist the same thing u are saying. I told him that when the anxiety leaves but the thoughts are still there I think that will scare me even more b/c then it will just be me thinking them, not my OCD. But he said that is not true. He pretty much told me the same thing tripletiger said, that when the anxiety is gone the thoughts will be there, but get less scary and eventually fade to where they don't bother u anymore. And I got to thinking about that and It is true. I had a horrible OCD attack about me being scared I was going to touch my babies the wrong way after I had them, but once the fear left and I knew I wouldn't do that then the thoughts faded away also. I still get one every now & then but it is just there for a split second and goes away fast b/c I am not scared of it anymore. it doesn't bother me anymore. So hopefully our doubts/thoughts about God and all that goes with it will do the same.

 

[gracealone]

Great post.. Awesome job Triple Tiger! You're beating this beast by ignoring it. It just hates to be ignored.
So happy!
Mitzi

It may seem bad, because then it feels like the thoughts are welcome, but in truth they are not. I'm kind of in your same boat now, my fear is almost gone, but I still struggle with intrusive thoughts. At first is scared me because I doubted that it was OCD anymore, but now that the fear has diminished for a while it has actually helped because my intrusive thoughts and doubts don't feed into that cycle of fear like they used to, so they don't pop up as often and stick around as long. Just keep praying raven, I'll be praying for you too

 

[gracealone]

None of that helps because all of that searching, reading books for evidence etc. were being done in response to the OCD. Those things are the compulsions. When you attend to OCD themes they don't get better. Normal inquistive searching is different. You do it to learn, not to assauge the panic of a fight or flight system that has latched onto a specific fear. Do you understand the difference?
Mitzi

This fear I am going to hell a very little bit. Starting to worry about dying and there be nothing more. Searching for evidence God and heaven are real and nothing is helping. No books I read the case for Christ. Evidence of a afterlife. Etc is helping.

 

[fealty77]

Agreed Mitzi. My therapist told me no more online searches...for anything, no more even straight reading the bible anymore. I can only dig into the bible if it's for research for my group bible study or Sunday School class study. And no more praying for forgiveness for my doubts and I can only ask for reassurance from an actual person 3 times per week right now...and I can never ask the same person twice or the same question twice. It is so hard, but it has gotten better. He also gave told me certain things to do to make my anxiety go up, but only once per day. My depression rears it's head bad at least a few times per week, then my OCD gets worse.

 

[raven1]

I am back to freaking because since my doubt is not OCD in and of itself I fear I am not being reasonable and taking in the evidence around me and people say God is perfectly just so maybe it is just for him to take me to hell. I have regular doubt the OCD just makes me freak out about it is how I see. So my doubt is from ME all because I can't prove heaven and God if I could I wouldn't be in this mess and like I said before I don't believe in faith people. I believe in belief. I just want it back. I had a man tell me I was never saved because had I been I would never have freaked out about heaven not existing. I am a doubter by nature. See I am confused my doubt is regular doubt 98 percent and I have 2 percent believe so I am basically agnostic with OCD the OCD is what causing fear but it is not irrational to be fearful of hell when so little of yourself believes. This thread basically explains why I am sooo confused.

 

[tripletiger1200]

Agnostic are people who refuse to try to choose. You've obviously chosen already, you're not agnostic. It's just OCD doubt, just relax! I know it's hard, but the second you start to try to analyze your thoughts without using the assumption that they are OCD then you are going to drive yourself absolutely crazy

 

[raven1]

I have been told when you have doubt it is always regular doubt. What you make of is the OCD so how is it not a sin to doubt. I did choose fifteen years ok but now I doubt 98 percent.

 

[fealty77]

I think the OCD does make some of our regular doubts up-close-and-personal. But I also believe once that original doubt/question comes in it can produce other questions that you would never originally have. Mine actually started with this stupid thought of "what if God is really evil and playing with us" (which was me) but then the panic kicked it and it produced like a hundred more thoughts that I never would have thought before and took me to the point of, "is God even real?" I know all that was the OCD. Everyone has probably questioned before is Christianity is even for real, but they shrug it off and forget about it like instantly. It doesn't even come up to the front of their mind like us. Ours does and scares us to thinking it could be true which keeps circulating and until we can get control of the anxiety we can't get past the thoughts being there and it just keeps going in a big circle. We feel like the anxiety/thoughts are lifting then we just get back into it again. I am going through it right now girl. It freaks me out. But I am actually getting a lot better than I was obsessing-wise. My depression is pretty extreme though so I am getting on medication for that hopefully soon. Hang in there girl. Don't let it beat you.

 

[raven1]

I believed in God with no doubts for fifteen years people even said you can't prove God exists my reply was I know he is real because he has been a part of my life had close brushes with death still no doubts heaven or God existed. then last May had heart palpatations the thought popped oh my gosh what if this is it. No heaven no nothing after this then if heaven doesn't exist then God might not either then oh my gosh I am going to hell. Now I am stuck because I cannot prove heaven and God exists. My biggest fear is heaven does not and since I can't prove it I am stuck with doubt then that makes me think God will condemn me and since I can't prove he won't I am stuck with that doubt too. I feel like maybe I am not choosEn to believe because I had been this would of never happened. I feel like if I just sit back and say I can't know i am agnostic I feel if I stress out I am not agnostic but I still don't know beyond a shadow of a doubt he is real so i am agnostic and sitting back relaxing also doesn't help me find proof of him or heaven and I want proof. If I don't stress out it makes me also feel like I am just s plain ole agnostic not trying and thatvwill condemn me.

 

[gracealone]

Hi Fealty,
It really sounds like you have a good therapist. That's a huge blessing! I know what he's asking is hard work and probably feels really wrong, like the exact opposite of what your brain is pushing you to do. Just keep telling yourself that what you are doing is desensitizing your brain to these thoughts and images. You're doing a good job.
Praying for you.
Mitzi

Agreed Mitzi. My therapist told me no more online searches...for anything, no more even straight reading the bible anymore. I can only dig into the bible if it's for research for my group bible study or Sunday School class study. And no more praying for forgiveness for my doubts and I can only ask for reassurance from an actual person 3 times per week right now...and I can never ask the same person twice or the same question twice. It is so hard, but it has gotten better. He also gave told me certain things to do to make my anxiety go up, but only once per day. My depression rears it's head bad at least a few times per week, then my OCD gets worse.

 

[raven1]

Can someone please tell me how this OCD thing works since people are sporadic with there help or think you are assurance seeking constantly I assume. I have been told by three different people that when they had/have doubts about whether or not God exists that there doubt was/is regular doubt not OCD doubt. OCD is the panic that takes a hold when you doubt that says your condemned but if it is regular doubt I don't see how you are not agnostic and therefore condemned and why people keep saying it is OCD doubt when the same people said it was regular doubt. I am so confused and frustrated. I am not being mean I am just stressing this makes no sense to me. This has also not been fleeting doubt someone on here told me they have had regular doubt for fifteen years or so. You have to believe to get into heaven you can't just say I don't know (be agnostic) right?

 

[gracealone]

Can someone please tell me how this OCD thing works since people are sporadic with there help or think you are assurance seeking constantly I assume. I have been told by three different people that when they had/have doubts about whether or not God exists that there doubt was/is regular doubt not OCD doubt. OCD is the panic that takes a hold when you doubt that says your condemned but if it is regular doubt I don't see how you are not agnostic and therefore condemned and why people keep saying it is OCD doubt when the same people said it was regular doubt. I am so confused and frustrated. I am not being mean I am just stressing this makes no sense to me. This has also not been fleeting doubt someone on here told me they have had regular doubt for fifteen years or so. You have to believe to get into heaven you can't just say I don't know (be agnostic) right?

Raven,
First off I don't mean to be sporadic. I just have a limited amount of time to help. But I do pray for you and am also quite aware that God can use anyone he chooses to help you, it doesn't have to be me.
Every doubt or thought when it first appears is a regular event which is common to all people. It doesn't matter what the theme is. But if you have OCD it will latch onto that common experience of doubt and torture you over it.
I wondered if you were aware that even John the Baptist experienced regular doubt. While he was in prison waiting to be beheaded he sent several of his disciples to ask Jesus if He was in fact the one that they had been expecting (Messiah) or if they should seek another.
I think you need to accept that doubt is doubt whether it's regular or fleeting or is a doubt that OCD has grabbed hold of. You are making your faith about emotional validation because you can't get the feeling of comfort or certainty about it. You need to make your faith about who Christ is, His character, His mercy, His grace. Basically you need to get over yourself when it comes to whether or not you believe "good enough" to earn a place in heaven. Furthermore, as has been pointed out to you time and time again you cannot have a fear of losing something, (heaven), if you doubt that it exists. quote Raven: ("you have to believe to get into heaven.") This would be like saying I am sooooo thirsty! But I don't really believe there is such a thing as water. How can you thirst if water doesn't exist? The reason that none of this helps or comforts you is because you have OCD. No answer or reassurance will lay it to rest. The disorder COMPELS you to keep on looking for certainty.
It's not that people aren't making sense in their replies to you it's that your OCD is so bad that it's muddling up your thinking and pushing you to keep on looking for certainty/reassurance no matter how illogical your thinking processes become. But, Dr.'s say that you cannot outlogic OCD and that the more you try the greater hold it gets on you. Wouldn't you say that's been true of your past experiences with OCD? The harder you try to ascertain whether or not the theme is legitimate the more stuck you get.
I hope you've not turned away from getting professional help. It's extremely important that you find a therapist who's had good success in treating OCD with ERP. That is the best counsel I can offer you.
I'm not going to change my mind on that.
Still praying.
Mitzi

 

[raven1]

I cannot have a fear of losing heaven if it doesn't exist? I don't know that it does I hope that it does that is my problem I can't know anything for sure. Our believe is what gets us into heaven if it is there. People say have u accepted Jesus as your savior yeah I did but now I doubt he is there. How can I be saved if I am saying i do not know if he is there maybe he is or isnt. If i still doubt ten years from now, rhe rest of my life or die today i have basicall been saying i dont know. Isnt that agnostism? I think that the world may end in 2012 so I don't do much of anything schooling,therapy, etc. Don't see the point.

 

[Mr. Runningfish]

And if it doesn't end? You'll just be worse off because you didn't seek help. Not just for yourself, but for your daughter. Please, seek help. I say this because I care about you (not because I want you to stop postin). I think many here want you to feel at peace and better- unfortunately it has only become round and round.

Like others have mentioned, you are trying to out logic your OCD. Because of your OCD, you will likely never find the answer you are looking for- or if you do, your OCD will just latch on to something else.

As I mentioned to you before, my OCD shifts focus between different themes.

I might doubt, but once I get over that, I'm bargaining, and if I'm not bargaining, it's hopelessness- it's always something. Sometimes the feelings associated with it are way too intense, which can lead me to intruding thoughts of death- and then day dreaming about that in turn becomes my new OCD. It's always something. Sometimes the feelings are not so bad, that it is easier to cope.

You might never have 100% of the answers or peace you seek, but seeing someone CAN help lessen the feelings associated with it. You can discuss with them whether just doing some sort of physical/mental technique is right for you, or whether you might need medicine to help correct some sort of chemical imbalance.

I don't know, but a doctor can help you figure that out. Do it for your daughter, on the off chance that the world does NOT end in 2012. If your daughter were to get sick today, would you go buy her cough syrup or would you just tell yourself it doesn't matter because the world will end next year? No, of course it matters! (I pray that she doesn't get sick)

Raven, you are never a bother when you message me and I will continue to pray for you and your family. I'll always answer you truthfully and offer words of encouragement to the best of my ability.

Try a week or two without seeking any type of proof. Don't give in and search. It looks like your searching might have become habitual/ritualistic for you. >.< If so, it will only feed your OCD. If so, it IS your compulsion.

I said a prayer for you Raven. I hope you have some peace today.

 

[gracealone]

Raven,
If what you say is true than there wouldn't be hope for most people - like me, like John the Baptist, like Thomas, like John Bunyan, like William Cowper. Do you not see that you are not unique in your experience of doubt. All of us with OCD can relate to and have felt everything you feel.
Here's the difference you are cooperating with and even feeding your OCD by the frequency and intensity of your compulsive reassurance seeking. You have to choose to live with the feelings of uncertainty while at least trying to give therapy a chance to help you. You have to be willing to go into it right while you are feeling the intense fear of all these doubts. What if you are wrong and waste years and years in continual suffering and torture when you could have been helped? What have you to lose by giving it a shot? You can even say to yourself... "I know this is probably a waste of time but I'm going to give it a try any how." There really is nothing more I can say that will help you. I am only asking you to do the very same thing I had to do myself. I'm not saying it's easy or that tomorrow you'll wake up and be all better what I am saying is that it may take some time but I believe you can be helped in this way because I was helped in this way and so were so many others on this forum. In the end it is your choice. You can allow this disorder to run your life or you can stand up to it and learn to manage it. I wouldn't even bother about you if I didn't believe that you could be helped or if I didn't care about you. I am not saying that your feelings aren't real and I grieve for you that you are experiencing such gut wrenching anxiety and depression. What I am saying is that those feelings are due to OCD and they can be tamed.
Even if I don't respond to your posts please know I am still praying for you.
Mitzi
PS. I don't believe in anyones prediction concerning a specific date as to when the world will end as that is unbiblical. It's amazing how your OCD can convince you of anything that strikes fear but of nothing that comforts. That's because it's a fear based disorder. It will only attach itself to fearful ideas.

I cannot have a fear of losing heaven if it doesn't exist? I don't know that it does I hope that it does that is my problem I can't know anything for sure. Our believe is what gets us into heaven if it is there. People say have u accepted Jesus as your savior yeah I did but now I doubt he is there. How can I be saved if I am saying i do not know if he is there maybe he is or isnt. If i still doubt ten years from now, rhe rest of my life or die today i have basicall been saying i dont know. Isnt that agnostism? I think that the world may end in 2012 so I don't do much of anything schooling,therapy, etc. Don't see the point.