I Broke Up With Him

somethingBEAUTIFUL · Aug 11, 2011

If Not For Grace said:
Here is a Woman far beyond her years (pity old boy did not see that)

What a compliment, thank you so very much! Maybe he will realize that before long. He's always said 2 things that drew him to me and he's always admired about me are my confidence and maturity

Beauty4Ashes · Aug 14, 2011

My husband and I dated almost 2 and a half years before getting engaged, mind you a year of that was long distance. My husband is not someone that makes very big decisions quickly. He is very rational and takes commitments quite seriously. This is a quality in him that at times can be frusterating but that I am actually so thankful for! He knew he loved me quite early on, about 3 months in to dating however it took a lot longer to feel ready to be married. But when he was it was of his own accord and he was 100% sure. I know of girls that pressured their men to marry them before they were completely ready or sure and to be honest I'd way rather have someone who is 100% sure who took a while to get to that point then someone that dove in headfirst and was still having doubts.

You need to follow your heart. In my case though it was tough at times because I felt more ready earlier(which is common with women), I felt in my heart of hearts it would all work out, in part because God had spoken to me that it would (which was one of very few times I was 100% sure it was God's voice and confirmation) Really you have to do what works for you. I'm glad we took our time because we really got to know eachother well and got to experience lots of highs and lows and learn how to deal with them together which I believe made us stronger and more prepared for marriage. Some people will tell you wait this long or that long but really you have to do what works for you and what feels right in your heart with God's leading.

FaithPrevails · Aug 15, 2011

somethingBEAUTIFUL said:
I broke up with my boyfriend of 4 years this past Thursday night. 2 days before that, I learned the devestating truth that he still felt unsure about anything concerning us getting married.

I see other people suggesting that you stick it out, so I came back to the OP and want to focus on this first couple of sentences.

Does he want to marry you, but he's just not ready to make that leap or is he not sure he wants to marry you? There is a big difference, IMO.

If it is the former, then I agree with those saying stick it out. If it is the latter, then I think the choice you made was the right one.

I've seen many a friend hang on for 5-10 years b/c their man kept saying he wasn't sure he wanted to get married. One of them - her boyfriend broke up with her after about 10 years and within a year was married to another woman...and within the first year of marriage they were pregnant. My friend was devastated b/c she had wanted to get married and have children so badly...and felt like she basically wasted 10 years of her life waiting for her BF to be "ready". When, in reality, she just wasn't the woman he wanted to marry, apparently.

I'm not saying that is the case here, I'm just saying it DOES happen.

somethingBEAUTIFUL · Aug 17, 2011

FaithPrevails said:
I see other people suggesting that you stick it out, so I came back to the OP and want to focus on this first couple of sentences.

Does he want to marry you, but he's just not ready to make that leap or is he not sure he wants to marry you? There is a big difference, IMO.

If it is the former, then I agree with those saying stick it out. If it is the latter, then I think the choice you made was the right one.

I've seen many a friend hang on for 5-10 years b/c their man kept saying he wasn't sure he wanted to get married. One of them - her boyfriend broke up with her after about 10 years and within a year was married to another woman...and within the first year of marriage they were pregnant. My friend was devastated b/c she had wanted to get married and have children so badly...and felt like she basically wasted 10 years of her life waiting for her BF to be "ready". When, in reality, she just wasn't the woman he wanted to marry, apparently.

I'm not saying that is the case here, I'm just saying it DOES happen.

I talked with him over the phone yesterday to hopefully clear up some things. I believe he and I are both still as confused as we ever were.
Twice I asked him about what you asked me, both questions...and twice I received replies that basically amounted to, "I don't know" or "I'm not sure". We talked a long time, and he cried (I did too a little) and confessed a lot of things to me. He feels like he needs to figure out who he is...he wants to be a man who keeps his word and sticks with whatever he says or sets out to do (he specifically named praying with purpose regularly, and regular Bible reading and listening to what the Lord has to say to him), and stop just floating through life. He feels he's been floating for a very long time.

I guess he feels like he doesn't know what his purpose is, maybe?

Help please, anyone

He asked me to pray for him in some specific areas, and that's all I know to do right now. I'm still at the point (hasn't even been 2 weeks) where I hope the relationship can be saved. But I'm not sure what's going to happen. Hate to think I could lose him forever, but it's very likely it's already headed in that direction

WalksWithChrist · Aug 17, 2011

somethingBEAUTIFUL said:
I talked with him over the phone yesterday to hopefully clear up some things. I believe he and I are both still as confused as we ever were.
Twice I asked him about what you asked me, both questions...and twice I received replies that basically amounted to, "I don't know" or "I'm not sure". We talked a long time, and he cried (I did too a little) and confessed a lot of things to me. He feels like he needs to figure out who he is...he wants to be a man who keeps his word and sticks with whatever he says or sets out to do (he specifically named praying with purpose regularly, and regular Bible reading and listening to what the Lord has to say to him), and stop just floating through life. He feels he's been floating for a very long time.

I guess he feels like he doesn't know what his purpose is, maybe?

Help please, anyone

He asked me to pray for him in some specific areas, and that's all I know to do right now. I'm still at the point (hasn't even been 2 weeks) where I hope the relationship can be saved. But I'm not sure what's going to happen. Hate to think I could lose him forever, but it's very likely it's already headed in that direction

I definitely felt like that some years back when my wife and I were still dating. I found that keeping our relationship together instead of breaking up was the best thing I could have done.

I think you and he will find that the rest (except for your relationship with God) is just details in the final analysis.

FaithPrevails · Aug 17, 2011

I respect WWC and since he has walked this walk, I encourage you to consider his advice.

However I would also encourage you to make sure that you respect your own desires and wishes, too. Losing him is not ideal, but neither is living indefinitely in limbo.

I think praying for the specific things for him is a great start. I also think encouraging him in any way that you can when endeavors to do new things to discover his purpose in life is a good thing.

But, he needs to agree to be candid and forthright with you about where he is at with regards to the relationship at regular intervals (every 3-6 months, maybe?). You don't want to devote years to helping him find himself and then find out at the end that his end goals are not the same as yours. KWIM?

I guess what I'm trying to say (in 10,000 words or less) is to proceed with caution and guard your heart if you decide to stick by him in this process of finding himself.

Niffer · Aug 17, 2011

FaithPrevails said:
I respect WWC and since he has walked this walk, I encourage you to consider his advice.

However I would also encourage you to make sure that you respect your own desires and wishes, too. Losing him is not ideal, but neither is living indefinitely in limbo.

I think praying for the specific things for him is a great start. I also think encouraging him in any way that you can when endeavors to do new things to discover his purpose in life is a good thing.

But, he needs to agree to be candid and forthright with you about where he is at with regards to the relationship at regular intervals (every 3-6 months, maybe?). You don't want to devote years to helping him find himself and then find out at the end that his end goals are not the same as yours. KWIM?

I guess what I'm trying to say (in 10,000 words or less) is to proceed with caution and guard your heart if you decide to stick by him in this process of finding himself.

I think it's good he wants help and prayer, and is deciding to grow more in his faith.
However, I still think there's way to much "beating around the bush" going on here.
To me, it almost sounds like he's distracting from the real problem - Not committing.
Sure it's great that he wants help in his faith and things like that, but thats not the issue here.
The issue is: You want to get married, he doesn't know if he wants to, and hasn't been close to coming to a definite answer for years.

Wait if you want to, but I wouldn't suggest waiting around forever.
Sometimes you really need to say: "He had his chance..." and walk away.

Example:
My husband (Remi) and I were very close friends for a number of years and long-distance when we thought about starting a relationship.
We decided we wouldn't commit to eachother until we had a good face-to-face visit, to make sure the physical chemistry was there.
Long story short, I kept asked when he'd come up to visit me, and I kept getting an "I don't know" sorta answer.
Right around this time another gentlemen from my college starting courting me (hanging around, buying me coffee etc) I felt no guilt, Remi and I hadn't committed to anything, and he was putting off coming to see me.
So I figured: 'He must not be that interested in me...' and left it at that. Turns out when he found out he had competition, he booked the next flight down (one month later) and officially asked to start dating me.
Some guys need a little encouragement to get their rear in gear....but your guy just seems to be "putting it off" with no real indication he's going to change.

I really do hope things work out for you - whatever happens.

Peace,
- Niff

FaithPrevails · Aug 17, 2011

Right - if my post didn't make it clear, I totally agree with Niffer that you have to know your limit and don't miss out on other opportunities b/c you're waiting around for him to figure out what he wants.

somethingBEAUTIFUL · Aug 17, 2011

You guys are quite helpful, thanks.

WalksWithChrist, may I ask you expand upon what you said?

FaithPrevails, I know what you mean. Today, all I know to do is pray for him. I also sent him an inspirational text. There is a pastor of a church around where we live who will send you a text daily if you text him the code. This was an old one I'd saved on my phone, but I thought it might help my ex-bf. Plus in the very recent past (while we were still a couple) he'd asked if I'd send him one from time to time, he liked them.
I thought my limit was the night we broke up, but I guess I haven't truly reached it yet. But I think the separation while keeping in contact occasionally rather than daily will help me realize that.

Niffer, I think in time, if he doesn't come around, I'll be able to say that. Besides this indecisiveness, he's everything I could've desired and needed in a man. And he always said that about me as a woman. I won't wait around forever. My grandma actually suggested getting a single family friend who's probably about 8-10 years older to take me out, and just "happen" to go somewhere my ex would see us. My "date" would know what was going on the whole time too. Don't know if I'll do that, just gonna have to see. If anything ever stirred my ex up though, it was competition, like you mentioned. He wouldn't make any ugly comments or act immature, but it was evident he didn't love it if a guy someplace flirted with me or eyed me the wrong way/too long. There were never EVER any trust issues between us regarding those things, and we never cheated on one another or anything like that. Guess it's natural to be just a tad possessive of the one you love dearly.

somethingBEAUTIFUL · Aug 17, 2011

I'd like to ask this too- I've heard of the sense of self and purpose one can gain from their role in marriage. It encourages them to better themselves in all areas of their life, and boosts their confidence like never before.

Is this true?

And could some of this be the devil trying to keep both of us just tangled up and confused, but going nowhere toward the blessings God could provide for us in marriage?

Not saying I want to marry him while he's all confused, I want him to be happy and settled.

iambren · Aug 17, 2011

My heart aches when I read your posts. And I'm sure you must be feeling some hurt (and maybe a little desperation) that your dreams have not been fulfilled. It's hard to face the emotional pain that a loss of a loved one from our life can be. Some of the things I see you do are like trying to hang on to the scraps of him to avoid the pain of letting go.

And yet you HAVE to withdraw the emotional energy from this man. With confidence evaporating I encourage you to not have ANYTHING more to do with him and shift your hope/anticipation to the Lord. He WILL bring the right one in to your life. Your faith must hang sure that He is the greatest lover of your soul. Let go, I know it's hard, but let go.

TammyRae · Aug 17, 2011

Hi SomethingBeautiful...

Reading your post was like reading my own diary from 20 years ago :-( This might get a little long, but I want to tell you how the next two decades unfolded for me because my husband was saying all that same exact stuff before we married.

In my case, I was 25 and my boyfriend and I had been together for 5 years. He was damaged emotionally from a very difficult childhood which included abandonment of his family by his father while he was still a toddler, then further issues involving his brothers and mother while growning up. But he was a good hearted man and said he strongly believed in marriage and family as absolute committments based on how he saw himself and his family hurt by his own father. I felt the same but mostly because my family is very close with lifelong marriages throughout, and very few divorces anywhere in extended family. My boyfriend was very scared of making that committment himself, though, as he had mostly broken, dysfunctional relationships throughout his family. After we were together for five years and he was still scared to get married, I told him that I loved him very much and this wasn't an "ultimatum", but I wanted a family and children someday and we should go our separate ways if he still wasn't sure he wanted to get married. He said he loved me but still wasn't sure and that he agreed we should break up... it was agony for me but it seemed the best decision. We did so and had no contact for several months until he learned I was dating another man (I believed the break was forever and had completely moved on with my life, nursing my heartache privately, no contact with him or his family, or even our old friends together). After he discovered I was dating, he came back and proposed immediately, said he had been praying about it and really believed at that point that God meant us to get married. I believed him and was very happy.... we got married the next year when I was 26.... we had two daughters within the first 3 years... and then I wasn't happy ever again :-(

He never got over his committment phobia, seemed to be overwhelmed at family responsibilities, regular working at a married relationship.... and then he just "uncommitted" emotionally. He was still there going to work every day, and he loved our children, but he lived emotionally every day holding himself above our relationship as if he were still sitting on the fence trying to decide whether we should stay together or not. He completely shut down the emotional and physical aspects of our marriage, would rarely discuss it at all, and then just paid lip service to marriage counseling twice throughout the next several years. It was a nightmare. But he was a sweet, considerate "roommate", we had children who were very happy and he was a great father... I couldn't blow up our family just because I was so deeply miserable.

After almost 20 years of marriage, he said he couldn't stand hurting me anymore, didn't think he really loved me and asked for a divorce. More agony seeing my family disintegrate for good, my children confused and suffering, and I still couldn't get him to really talk about any of the reasons for it.... he really didn't know himself, just knew he was always miserable and scared.

After about 6 months of filing for divorce, pain and desperation trying to get him to talk to couselors and finally getting him to talk to our pastor, he came back and said he didn't think we tried hard enough to save our family and was willing to try again. Well, by then I had read several books about emotionally unavailable men, comittment-phobic men, and the reasons they have difficulty, etc.... A great deal of this all is related to how he grew up. We are now going through a marriage restoration program through a local church and it is helping a lot. I think he is finally actually committed in his heart to our marriage and family after 20 long years.... but there is a lot of damage and pain and work ahead to try to start over again. Our family is worth it, though, and all I can do is to keep trying to go forward and lean on God and try to follow His will for marriages and families. I do believe that He is helping immensely and I have hope like never before that someday I will actually experience a happy, stable, secure-feeling marriage.

Anyways.... I don't know what type of family history your boyfriend has, but after you have been together for 4 years it is making me wonder if he also came from a broken or dysfunctional family somehow that makes him deeply afraid of committment. If so, I'm not saying don't get married if he changes his mind.... just be very careful moving forward, go through some very good pre-marital counseling, and please, please don't have children together if you feel like he starts putting up emotional walls in between you even after saying he is ready to commit or you are married.

I'll be praying for you that your future is easier and happier than mine was... I can't regret the decisions I made because I have two amazing daughers I cherish, but my life has been such a painful and lonely one up until now :-(

God Bless both of you in whatever decisions or future you decide on....

somethingBEAUTIFUL · Aug 17, 2011

TammyRae said:
Hi SomethingBeautiful...

Reading your post was like reading my own diary from 20 years ago :-( This might get a little long, but I want to tell you how the next two decades unfolded for me because my husband was saying all that same exact stuff before we married.

In my case, I was 25 and my boyfriend and I had been together for 5 years. He was damaged emotionally from a very difficult childhood which included abandonment of his family by his father while he was still a toddler, then further issues involving his brothers and mother while growning up. But he was a good hearted man and said he strongly believed in marriage and family as absolute committments based on how he saw himself and his family hurt by his own father. I felt the same but mostly because my family is very close with lifelong marriages throughout, and very few divorces anywhere in extended family. My boyfriend was very scared of making that committment himself, though, as he had mostly broken, dysfunctional relationships throughout his family. After we were together for five years and he was still scared to get married, I told him that I loved him very much and this wasn't an "ultimatum", but I wanted a family and children someday and we should go our separate ways if he still wasn't sure he wanted to get married. He said he loved me but still wasn't sure and that he agreed we should break up... it was agony for me but it seemed the best decision. We did so and had no contact for several months until he learned I was dating another man (I believed the break was forever and had completely moved on with my life, nursing my heartache privately, no contact with him or his family, or even our old friends together). After he discovered I was dating, he came back and proposed immediately, said he had been praying about it and really believed at that point that God meant us to get married. I believed him and was very happy.... we got married the next year when I was 26.... we had two daughters within the first 3 years... and then I wasn't happy ever again :-(

He never got over his committment phobia, seemed to be overwhelmed at family responsibilities, regular working at a married relationship.... and then he just "uncommitted" emotionally. He was still there going to work every day, and he loved our children, but he lived emotionally every day holding himself above our relationship as if he were still sitting on the fence trying to decide whether we should stay together or not. He completely shut down the emotional and physical aspects of our marriage, would rarely discuss it at all, and then just paid lip service to marriage counseling twice throughout the next several years. It was a nightmare. But he was a sweet, considerate "roommate", we had children who were very happy and he was a great father... I couldn't blow up our family just because I was so deeply miserable.

After almost 20 years of marriage, he said he couldn't stand hurting me anymore, didn't think he really loved me and asked for a divorce. More agony seeing my family disintegrate for good, my children confused and suffering, and I still couldn't get him to really talk about any of the reasons for it.... he really didn't know himself, just knew he was always miserable and scared.

After about 6 months of filing for divorce, pain and desperation trying to get him to talk to couselors and finally getting him to talk to our pastor, he came back and said he didn't think we tried hard enough to save our family and was willing to try again. Well, by then I had read several books about emotionally unavailable men, comittment-phobic men, and the reasons they have difficulty, etc.... A great deal of this all is related to how he grew up. We are now going through a marriage restoration program through a local church and it is helping a lot. I think he is finally actually committed in his heart to our marriage and family after 20 long years.... but there is a lot of damage and pain and work ahead to try to start over again. Our family is worth it, though, and all I can do is to keep trying to go forward and lean on God and try to follow His will for marriages and families. I do believe that He is helping immensely and I have hope like never before that someday I will actually experience a happy, stable, secure-feeling marriage.

Anyways.... I don't know what type of family history your boyfriend has, but after you have been together for 4 years it is making me wonder if he also came from a broken or dysfunctional family somehow that makes him deeply afraid of committment. If so, I'm not saying don't get married if he changes his mind.... just be very careful moving forward, go through some very good pre-marital counseling, and please, please don't have children together if you feel like he starts putting up emotional walls in between you even after saying he is ready to commit or you are married.

I'll be praying for you that your future is easier and happier than mine was... I can't regret the decisions I made because I have two amazing daughers I cherish, but my life has been such a painful and lonely one up until now :-(

God Bless both of you in whatever decisions or future you decide on....

Thank you for sharing your story with me, TammyRae. I pray God will continue to give you both strength and that you WILL be soon able to experience the type of marriage you described with your husband.

My boyfriend actually comes from a very stable family. Both sets of his grandparents live nearby and have never been separated or divorced. His parents met on a blind date when they were 20 and 21 and were married less than a year later. All these years it seems, from what I've heard, they've truly been happy. There might have been short periods here and there where his dad worked long hours, but MOST of the time, he was home for dinner and really engaged with my ex and his brother, and paid them attention. They're such a close family, and a God-honoring one as well. He's told me he particularly looks up to and would love to strive for a marriage similar to the one of his mom's parents. I agreed, hands-down. They are beautiful to watch as they talk and interact, even in their 70's and with health issues

However, this makes me think. Over the time we've been dating, we've seen our mutual friends, 2 couples, have great struggles in their marriages. One couple we saw actually separate for several weeks. But, they worked through it and got back together, and say that they are more in love now and their marriage is so much stronger. The other couple went through counseling, and a lot of it had to do with issues with in-laws, but they've had break-throughs and are so much further along now than even 6 months ago. It may not even cross his mind, but I've wondered if he fears things like that in marriage.

But then why in the world would he tell my friend when they spoke last week, "I know she and I could make it through anything." ?????????????

I believe this is something he's just gotta figure out on his own.

WalksWithChrist · Aug 20, 2011

somethingBEAUTIFUL said:
You guys are quite helpful, thanks.

WalksWithChrist, may I ask you expand upon what you said?

FaithPrevails, I know what you mean. Today, all I know to do is pray for him. I also sent him an inspirational text. There is a pastor of a church around where we live who will send you a text daily if you text him the code. This was an old one I'd saved on my phone, but I thought it might help my ex-bf. Plus in the very recent past (while we were still a couple) he'd asked if I'd send him one from time to time, he liked them.
I thought my limit was the night we broke up, but I guess I haven't truly reached it yet. But I think the separation while keeping in contact occasionally rather than daily will help me realize that.

Niffer, I think in time, if he doesn't come around, I'll be able to say that. Besides this indecisiveness, he's everything I could've desired and needed in a man. And he always said that about me as a woman. I won't wait around forever. My grandma actually suggested getting a single family friend who's probably about 8-10 years older to take me out, and just "happen" to go somewhere my ex would see us. My "date" would know what was going on the whole time too. Don't know if I'll do that, just gonna have to see. If anything ever stirred my ex up though, it was competition, like you mentioned. He wouldn't make any ugly comments or act immature, but it was evident he didn't love it if a guy someplace flirted with me or eyed me the wrong way/too long. There were never EVER any trust issues between us regarding those things, and we never cheated on one another or anything like that. Guess it's natural to be just a tad possessive of the one you love dearly.

I'll try to expand here.

I've seen a few really great relationships not make it. I've seen people that others and myself thought were "perfect for each other" let their relationship go due to reasons similar to those you speak of in your relationship. It just so happens that one of those relationships I am thinking of, those two actually did end up together and are now married with a kid or two. Ah, the wonders of Facebook...I never would have found that out without it.

Point being, all too often people get hung up on this or that issue in a relationship. It boils down to expectations for many of them. "We should be married by now" or "he/she doesn't have the right job" or "we need to be more secure in our relationship with the Lord first". All very good concerns to be sure if they speak to your heart. But as I indicated, when all is said and done it is the bonds of love that make life what it is. If you have found that person and you both share that sort of love and connection, then work for it. Don't let impatience or some sense of "things should be different or moving along faster" get in the way.

Our society teaches us (whether we realize it or not) that things must come quickly and be a certain way. Be patient and loving and I have a feeling things just might work out for you guys. If I am wrong so be it, but I have hope.

Oh, I almost missed your post to Niffer. Yeah, don't do the date thing with another guy. That's just begging for trouble! Bad idea. Bad, bad, bad. Just be straight and faithful with him and with yourself.

somethingBEAUTIFUL · Aug 20, 2011

Thank you for your expansion and hope, WalksWithChrist. I still have hope that things will turn around. He and I just have this "click" that would be dumb to give up. He's talked about it/commented on it many times himself. BUT also, I'm not going to just sit around and dwell on things. I'm trying to prepare myself for the fact that things may not change- I believe that's necessary.

He does not know this, but tomorrow he and I will lay eyes on each other for the first time in over 2 weeks when my mom and I go to church. We go to the same church, and for the past 2 Sundays I was not comfortable enough to go. I decided though that I want to go tomorrow, and like my mom said, church is neutral ground, and will require little, if any, one-on-one conversation with him. I'll let you all know how it goes.

somethingBEAUTIFUL · Aug 20, 2011

By the way, I doubt I'll do the date thing either!

WalksWithChrist · Aug 20, 2011

somethingBEAUTIFUL said:
Thank you for your expansion and hope, WalksWithChrist. I still have hope that things will turn around. He and I just have this "click" that would be dumb to give up. He's talked about it/commented on it many times himself. BUT also, I'm not going to just sit around and dwell on things. I'm trying to prepare myself for the fact that things may not change- I believe that's necessary.

He does not know this, but tomorrow he and I will lay eyes on each other for the first time in over 2 weeks when my mom and I go to church. We go to the same church, and for the past 2 Sundays I was not comfortable enough to go. I decided though that I want to go tomorrow, and like my mom said, church is neutral ground, and will require little, if any, one-on-one conversation with him. I'll let you all know how it goes.

You're welcome and I hope things turn out well either way.

somethingBEAUTIFUL said:
By the way, I doubt I'll do the date thing either!

somethingBEAUTIFUL · Aug 21, 2011

I don't know whether to feel relieved or disappointed. He was not at church. His mom told me he's had a stomach virus since yesterday. Don't suppose it was the Lord's will for us to see one another today. Oh well, the time will come. On the other hand, our pastor had a wonderful message. I hope everyone else had a good morning at church.

Niffer · Aug 27, 2011

Any updates??

somethingBEAUTIFUL · Aug 30, 2011

Niffer said:
Any updates??

Thanks for asking...no, not really. My mom and I went to church Sunday. He was there, helping run the sound in the sound booth. We never made eye contact, but I know for sure he was aware of me being there. His dad even came over to give me a hug during the fellowship song. After the service we stood around outside for less than 5 min, then left. As we left I saw him and his brother coming out of a side door on the church. Then yesterday i accidentally sent him an old text while messing with my phone. I was actually deleting stuff. I apologized, and he wrote back "it is np". So I told him ok and to have a good night and week. I didn't expect it, but he wrote nothing back.

I have his grandma added as a friend on Facebook, and today she sent me a simple message saying she was praying for me and loves me. Thought that was very kind. It's a blessing in disguise that my ex never signed up with Facebook!

So that's that. My mom, brother, and I have a fun weekend planned out of town. I hope he has fun watching the first college game(s) of the season withOUT me. We used to watch almost all of em together.

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