Hi, I know I shouldn't say this on a Catholic forum, but I am making an honest effort to understand the other side's viewpoints on "faith alone" and "osas" and even though they can demonstrate their view by select verses, there are things that simply stick out to me and I notice they do not have good answers on. I want to know if I'm losing my mind.
- John 15 where Jesus is talking about how we are the branches and that whoever does not abide in him (or doesn't bring forth fruit) is cast out as a branch and burned. It looks like faith alone and osas clash with this.
- 1 John 2 where it says that whoever says they have faith but does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. If faith alone is correct, then why does not keeping the commandments cause a man to not have the truth in him? "Not having the truth" makes it look like you are not a Christian.
- Luke 18 where someone asks him what must he do to inherit eternal life, and Jesus says how to obey the commandments but on top of that, sell all you have and give to the poor. (Ok someone here will ask if I've done this - no, but I keep wondering about this statement)
- Matthew 19 where Jesus says that if you want to enter life, keep his commandments.
- Galatians 5:19-21 where Paul lays out specific sins that bar you from the Kingdom of God, and he is speaking to believers.
- 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 where Paul does the same thing as in Galatians
- Revelation 22:19 where God will take away certain people out of the Book of Life. A pastor I was watching said that this doesn't mean losing salvation, it means that God decided never to put that person's name in the Book in the first place, but I'm not convinced.
-Colossians 1:23 "if you continue in the faith"
- Romans 11:22 where if don't continue abiding in God, we will be cut off
The problem is, you bring things like this up to the other side and they will most likely get upset at you and say the same buzz phrases like:
- You are adding to the finished work of Jesus
- The Bible says we are saved by faith alone
- You are trying to maintain your salvation by works and not by trusting in Jesus
- Works don't save you, works show you are saved
- We are saved by faith only but true Christians will demonstrate it with works but works have nothing to do with salvation (whaaaaaat)
- Galatians/Corinthians "sins that bar you" were only for unbelievers, but the problem with that is, if unbelievers don't have to repent of sin to be saved (according to them), then there's no need to tell unbelievers that those sins bar you. You just need to get them to believe.
- Jesus words for only for the Jews in the Millennial Kingdom, not for Christians. Jesus taught a works-based Gospel for the Jews and Paul taught a faith-based one for the Gentiles and in the Millennial Kingdom, works-based salvation is coming back and that's what Jesus' commands about obedience are for. They aren't for us!
- Ok, then, what works do you need to be saved?
- We are putting verses out of context and not interpreting Scripture with other Scripture
- John 15 where Jesus is talking about how we are the branches and that whoever does not abide in him (or doesn't bring forth fruit) is cast out as a branch and burned. It looks like faith alone and osas clash with this.
- 1 John 2 where it says that whoever says they have faith but does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. If faith alone is correct, then why does not keeping the commandments cause a man to not have the truth in him? "Not having the truth" makes it look like you are not a Christian.
- Luke 18 where someone asks him what must he do to inherit eternal life, and Jesus says how to obey the commandments but on top of that, sell all you have and give to the poor. (Ok someone here will ask if I've done this - no, but I keep wondering about this statement)
- Matthew 19 where Jesus says that if you want to enter life, keep his commandments.
- Galatians 5:19-21 where Paul lays out specific sins that bar you from the Kingdom of God, and he is speaking to believers.
- 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 where Paul does the same thing as in Galatians
- Revelation 22:19 where God will take away certain people out of the Book of Life. A pastor I was watching said that this doesn't mean losing salvation, it means that God decided never to put that person's name in the Book in the first place, but I'm not convinced.
-Colossians 1:23 "if you continue in the faith"
- Romans 11:22 where if don't continue abiding in God, we will be cut off
The problem is, you bring things like this up to the other side and they will most likely get upset at you and say the same buzz phrases like:
- You are adding to the finished work of Jesus
- The Bible says we are saved by faith alone
- You are trying to maintain your salvation by works and not by trusting in Jesus
- Works don't save you, works show you are saved
- We are saved by faith only but true Christians will demonstrate it with works but works have nothing to do with salvation (whaaaaaat)
- Galatians/Corinthians "sins that bar you" were only for unbelievers, but the problem with that is, if unbelievers don't have to repent of sin to be saved (according to them), then there's no need to tell unbelievers that those sins bar you. You just need to get them to believe.
- Jesus words for only for the Jews in the Millennial Kingdom, not for Christians. Jesus taught a works-based Gospel for the Jews and Paul taught a faith-based one for the Gentiles and in the Millennial Kingdom, works-based salvation is coming back and that's what Jesus' commands about obedience are for. They aren't for us!
- Ok, then, what works do you need to be saved?
- We are putting verses out of context and not interpreting Scripture with other Scripture
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