I am evil?

[Loner]

Other Christian have acused me of promonting the ocult because of the Music I listen to, having goths freinds(who are Christian to) and for my art and Writing. They said I could not listent to Rock and Metal (just like every one to know I will NOT listien to any Santanic bands,The ones I like are not envoled with the ocult and some are even Christian them selves) They said my freinds were unhealthy and involed with the ocult eather though they never met them, they just thought that because I told them they were goths. Then acussed me of getting envoled with the ocult because I read and write Fantasy/Sci-Fi and I make Gothic art (both my writing and my art are not Anti-Christian, My wirting was actully promting it) and My art gets me in trobal with some Christians, my drawling have bin conpaired to Tim Burtin and I do not make things that that are anti Christian. Today I reach a Boiling point when I was on onther Christian web site that tared me up for likeing fantasy and having goth freinds.


How should I deal with other Christians who keep saying I am not a real Christian over things like this?

 

[goldenviolet]

i know a young lady that is a goth dressing christain. she doesn't wear too much black on her face. my daughter likes goth like things but dresses pretty usual.
well, they listen to some strange stuff but nothing too bad compared to what's out there. i'm sorry you are treated the way you are. the truth is sometimes we have to get down and relate to those we witness to.
God uses us right where we are. if you are going in the right direction with Jesus, then no one has the right to put you down.

 

[jlerollin]

dress trends change all the time it really is hillarious christians thinking that wearing a certian colour has a bearing on your eternal destiny, it is just a social norm that they feel being attacted by those with a different philosophy of life, a bit like you meeting a man dressed as a nazi but he said he just liked the nazi cross design but didnt actually want to be a nazi. i know black and gothic style generates dracula like images in peoples mind and some of those who are behind the movement are into the philosophy of these things you are getting guilt by association which isnt fair but people judge by appearances you have to know that as it really is the way the world works. if you change your appearance the problem would vanish or if the philosophy and culture of the gothic image was christian youd be fine also. accept people are heart blind and if you want to please them you have to tailor your image if you dont then thats fine there really is no other choice

 

[Elijah2]

Yep, rejection is hard to handle, so are you going to handle it with commonsense, or non-sense.

Now, being a male, I can't really speak on the behalf of women, but I can speak on behalf of commonsense.

Now commonsense is when you realise that you have a choice to make a decision. You either go with the flow, or you paddle your canoe up stream against the current.

Now if you want to fit into you church, then go with the flow. Don't fight it, because you won't win any extra mickey mouse points.

Many can say, "Oh well, Jesus knows your heart!" Yep, he sure does, a rebellious heart or a loving heart, a disobedient heart or a obedient heart, a undisciplined heart or a disciplined heart, a proud heart or a forgiving heart.

The choice is yours.

 

[vespasia]

*NB I am writing as an old goth...yes I am a dark romantic.*
*Sighs* Welcome to the world....

What is in your heart matters far more to God that what is on your face or what you wear. Pleas enote Elijahs post on what a heart can be. It matters.

You have made the choice not to listen to groups openly promoting satanic and occult philosophy. There are many groups whose lyrics honour God even if their music is hard to listen to for others.

The huge majority of those I know who are Goths (Looks at clothing admits being old enough most of its faded to grey ) and Emos are not intrested in the occult, they have a hard enough time just being young and trying to find some way to kick a system that feels like a chute pushing them into ameat grinder aimmed at producing absolute homogenity.

I have made occult artwork and its nothing like gothic work. Sure in some kids work you look and see a little bit too much focus on the depressive side but those kids tend to be depressed for real and arts a safety valve instead of slicing themselves up.
Be very greatful your artwork only gets compared to Tim Burton.
Mine has been compared to Geiger and that WAS the nicer work. *sighs* I used to be able to sell at a major profit too.

If you have something that makes you differant to what people think of as normal they will want to pressure you to change to meet their idea of normal to make them feel 'comfortable'.
Live according to the teaching of Christ and let that be the witness of your faith in Christ. It is often more eloguent than words.
There are many parts of the body. If the one your in is trying to turn you from being say an eye into an ear ask God to help you find one where you can be the person He has called you to be.
If the presure is comming from the main body and not directed as church practise by leadership it may be worth chatting with your church leaders and seeing if you can 'compromise' between expressing yourself and the possibility of scaring folk who are your weaker brothers.
Why not pop over to Christiangoth.com and have a mooch around.

 

[Johnnz]

How do yuo handle it? Not that easily I'm afraid. Not having support and full acceptance of other Christians is pretty hard. Stick to your guns and let th efruit of what you are doing become evident over time.

John
NZ

 

[lynxfx]

Pray into your situation, if there is no part of you that feels wrong before God then you should not dwell on it as the most important thing is your relationship with God above all else.

 

[GregoryTurner]

I'm not sure what "goth" is today. I know back in my time it was not a heavy thing. I used to listen to bands and played shows with bands like Acid Bath, Suffocation, Cannibal Corpse, Death, Slayer, Obituary, etc. Now I jam to Demon Hunter, Zao, Extol, Disciple, Emery, Underoath, etc. I do not dress in all black anymore. Someone who dressed in all black and listened to the bands I do now, introduced me to Jesus. Isn't that what it is all about? The old music and lifestyle was very demonic. The music and lifestyle now is Light. Can we not choose to listen to what we like if it has the message of Jesus. Bands like Zao and Extol, you can't make out what they say sometimes until you read the lyric sheet. And once you read what message they are putting out, man, I didn't know these guys followed Jesus!?!?! Brother, be who you are. I say if what you do blesses God, who cares what judement comes against you from others. If someone comes to Jesus with your words or art, you will have a crown to lay at the Judge's feet. In the end, that is all that will matter. Remeber, there are people that will judge you just like you stated at the beginning of this thread, but there are people that will accept you for who you are. It is not up to anyone on earth to decide whether or not your heart is right with God, it IS up to us to love you.

 

[GregoryTurner]

As a matter of fact, one of the lyrics from Extol's cd, um, I think it's Synergy says, "carry me, carry me, carry each other." That is a great message of love.

 

[Catherineanne]

How should I deal with other Christians who keep saying I am not a real Christian over things like this?

I would suggest laughing at them. It will make you feel a lot better, and it will rile them no end. Result!!

You do not need to worry. Only God has the right to say who is, and who is not, a Christian in his eyes, and nobody on God's earth can remove salvation from a believer, once they are given it by God.

As long as you know who you are, then it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

(And as a final point, being a Christian doesn't mean you have to put up with the third rate Eurovision stuff that masquerades as 'Christian music'. )

 

[Saeph]

Remember:

Jesus Christ went through a similar situation.

And nobody would call Him an anti-christian, right?

Those people who're condemning or prejudging you, have - strictly speaking - no idea what their confession/religion is really about. They're not sure with their own beliefs and they seem to have high levelled xenophobia. You should pray for them, maybe one day they'll find out that they did wrong you.

I know it's hard to keep that in mind in those specific situation - the dullness of blind people can really get you down - but please try it. Talk to your family/friends about it if it's too hard for you.

God bless you.

 

[wtopneuma]

The question here is not whether you are a Christian or not. The question is whether you are following God's plan for your life as a Christian. Study the following scripture as written by Paul from the Contemporary English Version, pray, then obey God. Compare with other Bible translations.
1Co 10:16 When we drink from the cup that we ask God to bless, isn't that sharing in the blood of Christ? When we eat the bread that we break, isn't that sharing in the body of Christ?
1Co 10:17 By sharing in the same loaf of bread, we become one body, even though there are many of us.
1Co 10:18 Aren't the people of Israel sharing in the worship when they gather around the altar and eat the sacrifices offered there?
1Co 10:19 Am I saying that either the idols or the food sacrificed to them is anything at all?
1Co 10:20 No, I am not! That food is really sacrificed to demons and not to God. I don't want you to have anything to do with demons.
1Co 10:21 You cannot drink from the cup of demons and still drink from the Lord's cup. You cannot eat at the table of demons and still eat at the Lord's table.
1Co 10:22 We would make the Lord jealous if we did that. And we are not stronger than the Lord.
1Co 10:23 Some of you say, "We can do whatever we want to!" But I tell you that not everything may be good or helpful.
1Co 10:24 We should think about others and not about ourselves.
1Co 10:25 However, when you buy meat in the market, go ahead and eat it. Keep your conscience clear by not asking where the meat came from.
1Co 10:26 The Scriptures say, "The earth and everything in it belong to the Lord."
1Co 10:27 If an unbeliever invites you to dinner, and you want to go, then go. Eat whatever you are served. Don't cause a problem for someone's conscience by asking where the food came from.
1Co 10:28 But if you are told that it has been sacrificed to idols, don't cause a problem by eating it. I don't mean a problem for yourself, but for the one who told you. Why should my freedom be limited by someone else's conscience?
1Co 10:29 (SEE 10:28)
1Co 10:30 If I give thanks for what I eat, why should anyone accuse me of doing wrong?
1Co 10:31 When you eat or drink or do anything else, always do it to honor God.
1Co 10:32 Don't cause problems for Jews or Greeks or anyone else who belongs to God's church.

 

[Saeph]

The question here is not whether you are a Christian or not. The question is whether you are following God's plan for your life as a Christian. Study the following scripture as written by Paul from the Contemporary English Version, pray, then obey God. Compare with other Bible translations.

I don't understand the link between these verses and his problem.

 

[wtopneuma]

The link covered in those verses is that Christians are not free to do what is not a sin for them if what they do harms their witness or causes someone weaker to sin. It is a sin for a Christian to do a good work if that is not a work which is part of God's plan for that person. Remember how Samuel told Saul that obediance is better then sacrifice. Paul would have sinned if he had gone into another country instead of Macedonia where God wanted him to go. The question for a Christian is often: Would I be obeying God if I do this, even if it is good? Obeying God usually requires sacrifice and usually involves making adjustments in our life so God can do His ministry through us. God's call for every Christian is to surrender our will unto Him so that His will can be accomplish through us. We are to be channel of blessings for God's ministry and His resources, not our will or our resources.

 

[Elijah2]

Hi Forum,

I don't know but it appears that we all have gone off onto another tangent.

Now Loner had said:

Other Christian have acused me of promonting the ocult because of the Music I listen to, having goths freinds(who are Christian to) and for my art and Writing.
(Now we can all say this and say that, but when it comes down to ALL THINGS, do you know the subtley of the enemy???)

(Those people who you believe are giving you a hard time may be concerned for you and your SALVATION)

(The enemy will put you in this situation so that you will REBELL, and claim that your are being descriminated against.)

(I'll ask you a question. DO you LOVE our Lord Jesus Christ? Do you think our Lord Jesus Christ would do the things that you are doing?)
They said I could not listent to Rock and Metal (just like every one to know I will NOT listien to any Santanic bands,The ones I like are not envoled with the ocult and some are even Christian them selves)
(I gather your are spiritual wise, and you test the spirits all the time. A Christian is a Christ-centred person, who worships our Lord Jesus Christ, not a rock band. We can all claim to be a Christian, and just be socialising with Christians, don't make you a Christian. Going to church on Sunday, doesn't make you a CHristian. Does the words of your rock band use Scriptures in their songs?)
They said my freinds were unhealthy and involed with the ocult eather though they never met them, they just thought that because I told them they were goths.
(Now are these Christians who are giving you a hard time, as you say----Mature Christians? Do you think that they may be gifted with the spiritual gift of discerning of spirits. Do you believe that the enemy is a father of lies. Do you believe that unknowingly, because you may be deceived, that you are dabbling in the occult?)
Then acussed me of getting envoled with the ocult because I read and write Fantasy/Sci-Fi and I make Gothic art (both my writing and my art are not Anti-Christian, My wirting was actully promting it) and My art gets me in trobal with some Christians, my drawling have bin conpaired to Tim Burtin and I do not make things that that are anti Christian.
(How do you know that they are not anti-Christian. Do you know that the handles on the guitars that most Christian guitarist are using are Satanic. Did you know the the handles are the horns of Satan? Did you know that? Unkowingly you are worshiping Satan by using a guitar that was designed by satanists. You can say as much as you like that they are only HANDLES, but they are the HORNS OF SATAN. So really when it gets down to the reall nitty gritty. What do you know about the supernatural realm and the father of lies?)
Today I reach a Boiling point when I was on onther Christian web site that tared me up for likeing fantasy and having goth freinds.

(Well if you got bowling point, which I believe is being angry, then you better get yourself right with our Lord Jesus Christ. If other people keep on chastising you for your involvement, have you ever thought that they are concerned for you and your SALVATION. Now come on, use a bit of spiritual discernment here, and stop rebelling. Ask our Lord Jesus Christ to give you discernment, knowledge and wisdom.)

LOVE IN CHRIST



How should I deal with other Christians who keep saying I am not a real Christian over things like this?

 

[wtopneuma]

Much of which you advised could be true but you went off on the deep end with the horns bit because neither satan nor other demons have horns though goats horns are used by satanists as one of their symbols. Before His fall in heaven, Satan was the arch-angel of light, according to scripture. The horns of a devil are fiction. The priests of Israel would figuretively placed the sins of the nation on the back of a goat and send it into the wilderness.

 

[Loner]

i know a young lady that is a goth dressing christain. she doesn't wear too much black on her face. my daughter likes goth like things but dresses pretty usual.
well, they listen to some strange stuff but nothing too bad compared to what's out there. i'm sorry you are treated the way you are. the truth is sometimes we have to get down and relate to those we witness to.
God uses us right where we are. if you are going in the right direction with Jesus, then no one has the right to put you down.

Thank you.

 

[Loner]

Hi Forum,

I don't know but it appears that we all have gone off onto another tangent.

Now Loner had said:

Other Christian have acused me of promonting the ocult because of the Music I listen to, having goths freinds(who are Christian to) and for my art and Writing.
(Now we can all say this and say that, but when it comes down to ALL THINGS, do you know the subtley of the enemy???)

(Those people who you believe are giving you a hard time may be concerned for you and your SALVATION)

(The enemy will put you in this situation so that you will REBELL, and claim that your are being descriminated against.)

(I'll ask you a question. DO you LOVE our Lord Jesus Christ? Do you think our Lord Jesus Christ would do the things that you are doing?)
They said I could not listent to Rock and Metal (just like every one to know I will NOT listien to any Santanic bands,The ones I like are not envoled with the ocult and some are even Christian them selves)
(I gather your are spiritual wise, and you test the spirits all the time. A Christian is a Christ-centred person, who worships our Lord Jesus Christ, not a rock band. We can all claim to be a Christian, and just be socialising with Christians, don't make you a Christian. Going to church on Sunday, doesn't make you a CHristian. Does the words of your rock band use Scriptures in their songs?)
They said my freinds were unhealthy and involed with the ocult eather though they never met them, they just thought that because I told them they were goths.
(Now are these Christians who are giving you a hard time, as you say----Mature Christians? Do you think that they may be gifted with the spiritual gift of discerning of spirits. Do you believe that the enemy is a father of lies. Do you believe that unknowingly, because you may be deceived, that you are dabbling in the occult?)
Then acussed me of getting envoled with the ocult because I read and write Fantasy/Sci-Fi and I make Gothic art (both my writing and my art are not Anti-Christian, My wirting was actully promting it) and My art gets me in trobal with some Christians, my drawling have bin conpaired to Tim Burtin and I do not make things that that are anti Christian.
(How do you know that they are not anti-Christian. Do you know that the handles on the guitars that most Christian guitarist are using are Satanic. Did you know the the handles are the horns of Satan? Did you know that? Unkowingly you are worshiping Satan by using a guitar that was designed by satanists. You can say as much as you like that they are only HANDLES, but they are the HORNS OF SATAN. So really when it gets down to the reall nitty gritty. What do you know about the supernatural realm and the father of lies?)
Today I reach a Boiling point when I was on onther Christian web site that tared me up for likeing fantasy and having goth freinds.

(Well if you got bowling point, which I believe is being angry, then you better get yourself right with our Lord Jesus Christ. If other people keep on chastising you for your involvement, have you ever thought that they are concerned for you and your SALVATION. Now come on, use a bit of spiritual discernment here, and stop rebelling. Ask our Lord Jesus Christ to give you discernment, knowledge and wisdom.)

LOVE IN CHRIST



How should I deal with other Christians who keep saying I am not a real Christian over things like this?

To answer your qustion on if I love my lord, the answer is yes. I do Love my god and I am doing anything he would not be doing? what am I doing that he would not be doing? (Dont get me wrong I am not comparing my self to god but I do have a point) I am writeing a story and Jesus him self was a story teller was he not? He said to sing a our favord hims so I sing songs by the Christian Metal bands (who I do not worship).


To be cottuned, sorry my couputer keeps crashing

 

[Loner]

He went threw dark times and sufferd threw them and but strong prayed when things got ruff all the way to the end. Life was not easy for him eahter.


God said use your gifts did he not? My Imagination I belive is my gift(I hate saying that because its sound like full of my self when I am really not) and I am using to promote good like C.S. Lewis did. Ware dose it say in the bible cant write about fantsy or draw the way I do?

 

[Loner]

*NB I am writing as an old goth...yes I am a dark romantic.*
*Sighs* Welcome to the world....

What is in your heart matters far more to God that what is on your face or what you wear. Pleas enote Elijahs post on what a heart can be. It matters.

You have made the choice not to listen to groups openly promoting satanic and occult philosophy. There are many groups whose lyrics honour God even if their music is hard to listen to for others.

The huge majority of those I know who are Goths (Looks at clothing admits being old enough most of its faded to grey ) and Emos are not intrested in the occult, they have a hard enough time just being young and trying to find some way to kick a system that feels like a chute pushing them into ameat grinder aimmed at producing absolute homogenity.

I have made occult artwork and its nothing like gothic work. Sure in some kids work you look and see a little bit too much focus on the depressive side but those kids tend to be depressed for real and arts a safety valve instead of slicing themselves up.
Be very greatful your artwork only gets compared to Tim Burton.
Mine has been compared to Geiger and that WAS the nicer work. *sighs* I used to be able to sell at a major profit too.

If you have something that makes you differant to what people think of as normal they will want to pressure you to change to meet their idea of normal to make them feel 'comfortable'.
Live according to the teaching of Christ and let that be the witness of your faith in Christ. It is often more eloguent than words.
There are many parts of the body. If the one your in is trying to turn you from being say an eye into an ear ask God to help you find one where you can be the person He has called you to be.
If the presure is comming from the main body and not directed as church practise by leadership it may be worth chatting with your church leaders and seeing if you can 'compromise' between expressing yourself and the possibility of scaring folk who are your weaker brothers.
Why not pop over to Christiangoth.com and have a mooch around.

It is always good to see some one els who know what its like. I have bin that web site before and thought it was cool. I keep in mind what said about drawling but so far all I have drawn were monster and wierd charaters, No blood, no Nudty, no sex or anything els like that would consider offnisve. Thank you vary much for responding