• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

VictorC

Jesus - that's my final answer
Mar 25, 2008
5,228
479
Northern Colorado
✟29,537.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
As I've said before, non SDA's won't understand what we believe... this isn't my personal theory.
When you choose to disregard Scripture, and yet present the same doctrines that other Adventists do, another body of authority needs to be found that explains this commonality you have with other Adventists. The only other source of authority an Adventist has is the writings of Ellen White. Well, concerning the authority of the Scriptures she interpreted, the SDA prophet Ellen White had this to say:

We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years. And while the Scriptures are God's Word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar of the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God. {MR760 19.2}​

Their faith is special. No one is permitted to criticize it. What if they come with a Bible in hand? Well, the prophet has an answer to that, too. Here is a key sentence from the quote above: "while the Scriptures are God's Word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar of the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake".

The linguistic qualification of "if such application moves one pillar of the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years" refers to criticism of the SDA Sanctuary Doctrine, which this paragraph lifted from Ellen White's response to SDA Elder A.F. Ballenger addresses. The SDA Sanctuary Doctrine exists as the explanation for an event that didn't happen in 1844, and so this qualifier is meaningless - because the Sanctuary Doctrine is unBiblical, the very reason no other group has ever accepted it. It is beneficial to remove the qualifier in order to see the meaning of what Ellen White wrote more clearly:

And while the Scriptures are God's Word, and are to be respected, the application of them ... is a great mistake.

You're doing exactly what the prophet told you to do: "We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith". Everything in the Bible is relegated to the realm of "theory" unless authenticated by the prophet, and they are trained to ignore those who "gather together a mass of Scripture and pile it as proof".

That's why we see the kind of responses we do here.
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟210,609.00
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
You are in an Adventist forum, and while I do recognize that there are Adventists that question the validity of sister Whites writings being inspired or not, it is still what the denomination is primarily based upon.

Do you frequest the Mormon forums to show the error of their beliefs or are we the only ones priviledged with this?
 
Upvote 0

VictorC

Jesus - that's my final answer
Mar 25, 2008
5,228
479
Northern Colorado
✟29,537.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
You are in an Adventist forum, and while I do recognize that there are Adventists that question the validity of sister Whites writings being inspired or not, it is still what the denomination is primarily based upon.
I agree with you - Adventism is primarily founded on Ellen White, and doesn't formulate their distinctive beliefs from Scripture. A few years ago the SDA forum was split into two separate forums, with the "traditional" subforum catering to those adhering to all 28 Fundamental Beliefs codified in the SDA church, while this one has a different set of guidelines catering to former Adventists, progressive SDA members who don't adhere to Ellen White's opinions, and anyone else desiring to engage apologetic discussion on Adventist topics. Basing a response on Ellen White's accepted authority doesn't elicit very much sympathy when many of those participating here have already evaluated her claim to inspiration and found her lacking.

Bear in mind that how you chose to respond to my post affirms a conclusion of Adventism's disregard for Scripture. As I found Ellen White to conclude, "And while the Scriptures are God's Word, and are to be respected, the application of them ... is a great mistake." Using an authority that doesn't align with sola Scriptura forces you to depart from the unity of the faith that Scripture presents as our goal.
Do you frequest the Mormon forums to show the error of their beliefs or are we the only ones priviledged with this?
I don't know as much about Mormonism as I do Adventism, and I don't contribute to forums where a theological departure from Christianity is already well known and accepted. I don't know why you would consider such a question germane, as Mormons don't care a whit about unity in the faith. Granted, a similarity is apparent when you initiate a thread about a national Sunday law that can't be supported by Biblical narratives.
 
Upvote 0

Princessdi

Regular Member
Oct 13, 2005
488
15
67
✟23,213.00
Faith
Christian
Well, I am SDA, heard this all my life, and I still have questions.

Number one being: seeing as we have given satan a script, we actually expect a creature who is not known for his obedience to follow it? Now this question is for everyone, because everyone has an end-time prophecy, and they all depend of satan's participation in their scenario.

Second one: When do you believe satan's appearance changed? Where in the Bible does it say he was expelled from heaven and like Athena did to Kalibos(Greek mythology) changed satan's appearance. Do you buy into the dark horror movie or red pitchforked cartoon like representations of satan?


When satan appears as an angel of light, to impersonate Christ, and advocates for the observance of Sunday, it will happen.
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟210,609.00
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married

To answer your second question first, no I don't believe that satan appears as he is depicted in the media. I believe this is a cunning manipulation to make people expect to see one thing, so that when something ethereal and beautiful appears, the illusion will be sure. The same applies to all fallen angels so that they can deceive people through spriritualism...

For your first question, yes that is definitly perplexing, but when you think of the prophesy's that have been fulfilled, especially the death of Jesus in accordance to Daniel 9:24-27, satan knew this, yet it was still fulfilled.
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟210,609.00
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married

Unfortunately, it appears that both forums have morphed into this same state...
 
Upvote 0

VictorC

Jesus - that's my final answer
Mar 25, 2008
5,228
479
Northern Colorado
✟29,537.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Actually, if you were to return to 2 Corinthians 11 where you draw this allusion, you would find the author's emphasis isn't what you're representing.
2 Corinthians 11
12 But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
The emphasis is on the human agents who mimic those proclaiming the Gospel, even as far as portraying a claim of inspiration as an apostle of Christ.

Or a prophet.

This is what Paul shows his dedication to counter, and not the defeated fallen angel who causes so many problems because he knows his time is short (1 Peter 5:8, Revelation 12:12).
For your first question, yes that is definitly perplexing, but when you think of the prophesy's that have been fulfilled, especially the death of Jesus in accordance to Daniel 9:24-27, satan knew this, yet it was still fulfilled.
Satan as the prince of the power of the air (Ephesians 2:2) didn't know how salvation was contained in Christ's propitiation. It was concealed from him as well as mankind.
1 Corinthians 2
1 ¶ And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
6 ¶ However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him."
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
Had satan known where salvation for those created in the image of God was to come from, his effort would not have been to silence His voice by killing Him.
 
Upvote 0

VictorC

Jesus - that's my final answer
Mar 25, 2008
5,228
479
Northern Colorado
✟29,537.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Unfortunately, it appears that both forums have morphed into this same state...
Why would you consider it unfortunate?

There have been changes over the last couple of years in the administration of CF, where an effort has been made to provide a safe haven for unique groups, but also avoid having the safe haven a place where a unique group can hide and disparage other Christians with impunity. It has not been an easy road to get to where we are, but I think the present state of administration and moderation is doing a commendable job. Somewhere in between providing hiding spots to call others names and open riot is the sensible medium we have now.

And, I think that the call for accountability that has appeared recently in CF's banner advertising reflects the changes that have been made.

I think accountability is a great statement of faith I whole-heartedly endorse.
I think Jesus would as well.
John 3
16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 "But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
Open dialogue, transparent exposure, and accountability to others in a like common faith are goals any discussion forum should be proud to embrace.
 
Upvote 0

Byfaithalone1

The gospel is Jesus Christ!
May 3, 2007
3,602
79
✟26,689.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married

Good point, Princess. I am an executive in one of the country's largest nationwide retailers and there is no doubt that what you've written is true. Consider also the sports and entertainment that occur on Sunday. Even those who engage in corporate worship on Sunday regularly participate in such activities on Sunday.

Further, consider our world economy and our intimate relationship with Israel. I wonder how our Jewish allies would feel about a national Sunday law. And then there are the Muslims and Hindu. How would they feel about a national Sunday law?

The concept of a national Sunday law places Christianity at odds with sabbatarians. I submit that the real tension that may continue to grow is the tentions that exists between Christianity and much bigger and more powerful groups.

BFA
 
Upvote 0

Byfaithalone1

The gospel is Jesus Christ!
May 3, 2007
3,602
79
✟26,689.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
also avoid having the safe haven a place where a unique group can hide and disparage other Christians with impunity.

And this has certainly happened in the past. Open and respectful dialogue is far more healthy than "closing the ranks." This spirit has led to a scenario in which ECR is more than welcome to post here, even though he is not a former or progressive SDA. And I'd imagine that no one has indicated that he should go away. Hopefully, no one ever will.

BTW, there have been movements in the past to consolidate the two sites.

BFA
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Pythons

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2008
4,215
226
✟5,503.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
If there does come an enforced Sunday Law, what wouldl that mean to you? Would you chalk it up to coincidence and stay with your current beliefs (assuming they are non Sabbath keeping) or would you re-evaluate your non SDA beliefs?

Do you mean enforced Sunday law that prevents people from corporate worship on Saturday?
....As in you 'can't' worship Christ as God on Saturday?
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟210,609.00
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Do you mean enforced Sunday law that prevents people from corporate worship on Saturday?
....As in you 'can't' worship Christ as God on Saturday?

Yes, that is my understanding of how it will be. Watching for a few worshippers on Saturday will be easier than ensuring that 100% of the people are worshipping on Sunday...
 
Upvote 0

Byfaithalone1

The gospel is Jesus Christ!
May 3, 2007
3,602
79
✟26,689.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Yes, that is my understanding of how it will be. Watching for a few worshippers on Saturday will be easier than ensuring that 100% of the people are worshipping on Sunday...

So, you envision that America will annul its long-standing relationship with one of its closest allies . . . Israel? Why would it do that?

BFA
 
Upvote 0

Pythons

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2008
4,215
226
✟5,503.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Yes, that is my understanding of how it will be. Watching for a few worshippers on Saturday will be easier than ensuring that 100% of the people are worshipping on Sunday...

Do you believe that the Catholic Church will reverse it's teaching and refrain from having Mass on Saturday?
...As in when the prophetic schema of SDA takes place Catholicism will cease holding 'Daily Mass'?
...And persecute those Catholics who continue to worship Christ as God on Saturday?

Do me a favor EastCoast and just watch this short video and tell me what you see in it that is related to Satan?
...It's actually from a Saturday Mass, Saturday Mass being held every Saturday.
...I think one Friday a year is the ONLy time the Mass is not offered.

Saturday Mass
YouTube - Daily Mass 2/3 Saturday 21 February 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rAIday3Nok

For the Catholic Church OR Eastern Orthodox Church to cease from a religious observing of the worship of Christ as God...
...Would require 1st that the Church has been teaching error previously.
...I don't see that happening. Ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k84R1i4YfFI&feature=player_embedded
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟210,609.00
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Do me a favor EastCoast and just watch this short video and tell me what you see in it that is related to Satan?

Well, I only watched the first one so I cannot comment on the others for now.

First, it was a nice narrative of the disciples recounting their time with Jesus. The Hail Mary's is where is started to fall off the rails for me. Marianism is idolatry...

Second was the reference to an offering being made to God of bread and wine that were made from human hands hoping to be found worthy.... not sure how thats Biblical. Seems again like idol offerings as God does not require us to make an offering to Him of the things made with our hands.

The repetitive reading and response hardly evokes a spirit of individual relationship with God... kind of a group thing. To be fair though, I have seen this done at an SDA church so your influence has extended there.

Tell me, do Catholics confess their sins to Jesus or to a priest? Is the Pope considered to be infallible and the vicar of Christ whose teachings are to be regarded above Christs?

And that was just the first video....
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟210,609.00
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
So, you envision that America will annul its long-standing relationship with one of its closest allies . . . Israel? Why would it do that?

BFA

I won't get too deep into geopolitics here but the entity ruling Israel is not Judaism, it's Zionism. Do a brief Google search to discover the history and stated purpose of this satanic, talmudic group that has controlled the USA for decades now.

Zionism will have no problem using the real Jewish people and the religion of Judaism until it no longer suits their purpose. The history of the Reichs dealings with Zionist leaders using the common Jews as pawns should reveal there intentions...

Don't ask me for more details on this... you have the ability to to some investigative research just like I have. Just be prepared to see history not as you learned it in school... remember who controls this world.
 
Upvote 0

Pythons

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2008
4,215
226
✟5,503.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Well, I only watched the first one so I cannot comment on the others for now.

Fair enough.

EastCoast said:
First, it was a nice narrative of the disciples recounting their time with Jesus. The Hail Mary's is where is started to fall off the rails for me. Marianism is idolatry...

In historic Christianity the people asked everyone to pray for them to the Lord.....
...Have you ever asked someone to pray for you?
...This is what it is - Catholics ask Mary to pray for them to the One God.



There is no greater Sacrifice then that of Jesus Christ - who paid every debt....
...The Mass offers this One perfect Sacrifice as per Jesus' words.

Christianity came from Judaism which used sacrifices, altars and Liturgy...
...After power passed from Judaism to the Church Christ established.
...The early Christians viewed the Sacrifice of the Mass AS the real Sacrifice.

Therefore instead of a sheep, goat, or dove the Church insisted on bread and wine....
...Because of the Apostles who understood the bread and wine as the body and blood of Christ.
...Which, for the Christian is the ultimate Sacrifice once and for all.
...Which is why it's re-offered until Christ comes, daily.


EastCost said:
The repetitive reading and response hardly evokes a spirit of individual relationship with God... kind of a group thing. To be fair though, I have seen this done at an SDA church so your influence has extended there.

It's from Judaism, it's how Christ worshiped and how the early Church "worshiped"...
...People today, especially Prots believe a pastor who gives a sermon is 'worship'.
...It's not, the preaching is only part of the worship - the center is the Sacrifice offered to God.
...And anything offered other then Jesus' once for all time Sacrifice is wrong IMHO.

EastCoast said:
Tell me, do Catholics confess their sins to Jesus or to a priest? Is the Pope considered to be infallible and the vicar of Christ whose teachings are to be regarded above Christs?

God ONLY forgives sins - there is no other with the power to do that....
...The Priest has authority from God to forgive sins - IF the confession is pure.

The Priest serves as someone who can give you some pointers on how to do better to avoid sins...
...In the box you "confess to God" in earshot of the Priest.
...And like any counselor - he will ask questions related to the sins you confessed TO GOD within his hearing.



That's a common one but you can make your own up if you want to....
...You just have to ask God for forgiveness.
...Jesus set it up this way which is just like the old way of Judaism minus the live animal and having to be in Jerusalem proper.
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟210,609.00
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
God ONLY forgives sins - there is no other with the power to do that....
...The Priest has authority from God to forgive sins - IF the confession is pure.

This statement is condradictory...
 
Upvote 0

Pythons

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2008
4,215
226
✟5,503.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
This statement is condradictory...


Would you say that the Priest forgave the persons sin by his own power...
...Or that God forgave the sin by working via the Priest?

Lev 5 said:
And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD for his sin which he hath sinned, a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his sin.


Priest "Atone" THEN God forgives.....
...God "could have" just cleansed the leper instead he had him wash in the river several times.
...Does this mean the leper cleansed himself or the river was magic?
...No, it means that's the way God wanted it to be done.

Jesus opened up a Priesthood of all believers therefore a man didn't have to be born from a certain family to be a Priest....
...Jesus forgave sins in the street and he gave power the Apostles to do the same.
 
Upvote 0

VictorC

Jesus - that's my final answer
Mar 25, 2008
5,228
479
Northern Colorado
✟29,537.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Yes, that is my understanding of how it will be. Watching for a few worshippers on Saturday will be easier than ensuring that 100% of the people are worshipping on Sunday...
You're making predictions of how a Sunday law will play itself out in political affairs based on a assumption that there is going to be a Sunday law, and that assumption has permeated this entire thread. It is that assumption that I have tried to turn your attention to, to no avail. You simply rely on an assumption that is nowhere present in Scripture.

Where it is presented is in the writings of Ellen White, and it is there that you formed your opinion concerning the possibility of a Sunday law ever coming to pass. Look at this quote from Ellen - and this is from the 1858 draft that originally published as The Great Controversy.
I saw the saints leaving the cities and villages, and associating in companies together, and living in the most solitary places. Angels provided them food and water; but the wicked were suffering with hunger and thirst. Then I saw the leading men of earth consulting together, and Satan and his angels were busy around them. I saw a writing, and copies of it scattered in different parts of the land, giving orders, that unless the saints should yield their peculiar faith, give up the Sabbath, and observe the first day, they were at liberty, after such a time, to put them to death. But in this time the saints were calm and composed, trusting in God, and leaning upon his promise, that a way of escape would be made for them. In some places, before the time for the writing to be executed, the wicked rushed upon the saints to slay them; but angels in the form of men of war fought for them. Satan wished to have the privilege of destroying the saints of the Most High; but Jesus bade his angels watch over them, for God would be honored by making a covenant with those who had kept his law in the sight of the heathen round about them; and Jesus would be honored by translating the faithful, waiting ones, who had so long expected him, without their seeing death. {1SG 201.1}
There are a couple of items to pay attention to in this quote.

The first is the endorsement of divine inspiration by the claims of "I saw".
The second is Ellen's assertion that God is going to make a covenant with those compliant to the first covenant (as described in the epistle to the Hebrews, which is the covenant from Mount Sinai mediated by Moses known as the Ten Commandments). This amounts to a claim that there is going to be a third covenant, made only with those compliant to the first covenant, and Ellen completely disregards the second covenant Christianity affirms: "He takes away the first that He may establish the second" (Hebrews 10:9).

This claim of a third covenant is so absurd that it vanished when this was edited to become the 1884, 1888, and 1911 editions of The Great Controversy. The loss of divine inspiration apparent in the newer editions is explained by the White Estate as tailoring the book to public consumption, but the omission of a third covenant that was originally "inspired" has no explanation. It is ridiculous, and as the SDA church became better versed in Scripture the divine "vision" of a third covenant was dropped. That is an admission that Ellen White's vision was not inspired, and even the prophet didn't believe it enough to retain it.

Furthermore, there isn't anyone God has determined compliant with the first covenant, and I believe I have quoted Romans 11:32 enough times that this doesn't need to be addressed anymore. The condition Ellen claims the third covenant would be made with is for a people that will never exist. It is complete fiction that is contrary to Scripture's explanation that the first covenant was broken by the recipients and was the basis for a new covenant: "But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second." (Hebrews 8:6-7).

Look at these quotes from Maranatha!, a 1976 collection to summarize Ellen White's writings on various topics:
The sign, or seal, of God is revealed in the observance of the seventh-day Sabbath, the Lord's memorial of creation. . . . The mark of the beast is the opposite of this--the observance of the first day of the week. {Mar 211.2}

Sundaykeeping is not yet the mark of the beast, and will not be until the decree goes forth causing men to worship this idol sabbath. The time will come when this day will be the test, but that time has not come yet. {Mar 211.3}

No one has yet received the mark of the beast. The testing time has not yet come. There are true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion. None are condemned until they have had the light and have seen the obligation of the fourth commandment. But when the decree shall go forth enforcing the counterfeit sabbath, and the loud cry of the third angel shall warn men against the worship of the beast and his image, the line will be clearly drawn between the false and the true. Then those who still continue in transgression will receive the mark of the beast. {Mar 211.4}

If the light of truth has been presented to you, revealing the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, and showing that there is no foundation in the Word of God for Sunday observance, and yet you still cling to the false sabbath, refusing to keep holy the Sabbath which God calls "my holy day," you receive the mark of the beast. When does this take place? When you obey the decree that commands you to cease from labor on Sunday and worship God, while you know that there is not a word in the Bible showing Sunday to be other than a common working day, you consent to receive the mark of the beast, and refuse the seal of God. {Mar 211.5}
When I researched the way that the Investigative Judgment permeates Adventist theology, I noted several quotes from Ellen explaining that 1844 became the time that the sabbath again gained jurisdiction, based on the symbolism of Christ entering the MHP where the covenant from Mount Sinai is allegedly stored in the heavenly sanctuary (both the claim of entrance in 1844 and the claim that the Ten Commandments are in the heavenly sanctuary are unBiblical, which is not germane to this observation). That time when Jesus entered into the IJ and used the Ten Commandments as the basis of that judgment supposedly made the sabbath binding once again. That is not consistent with the claims above that the mark of the beast doesn't exist until the RCC makes Sunday worship a requirement to those outside of it.

And look again at those quotes from Maranatha!. What is this "counterfeit sabbath" she's so consumed about? Going to church on Sunday? Christianity doesn't affirm a sabbath at all - that is a component of the old covenant we have been redeemed from. Note Ellen's reference to the "fourth commandment", and that it is an obligation to observe (that she never complied with herself, BTW). Where is this "fourth commandment" found?

It is a reference to the covenant from Mount Sinai, the Ten Commandments. That is the obligation Ellen White considers binding, and she never affirms the commandments of God that instruct us to cast that covenant from Mount Sinai off, because those retained by it in lieu of God's redemption in Jesus Christ have no claim to eternal life: "Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman" (Galatians 4:30).

There is no such thing as a "Sundaykeeping" counterfeit sabbath. We have entered into God's permanent rest that is the reality the periodic sabbath symbolized as a shadow, and now we have the freedom in our redemption from the covenant mediated by Moses (Ten Commandments) to assemble whenever we desire. Honoring the day of the week Jesus was resurrected from the dead is the basis of a tradition that draws many to Sunday, just as Saturday is also based on a tradition from honoring the sabbath. Assembling on the sabbath is not keeping it, as the law mandates a Levitical priesthood to make the burnt offerings they alone were authorized to perform, and this is a requisite for keeping the sabbath holy under the law that ordained it.

Where's that third covenant?
Why are you basing eschatology on ignorance of God's redemption from the first covenant?

The entire premise you assumed for this thread is summarized in one word: Wrong.
A Sunday law is unable to violate a sabbath ordinance that doesn't exist in Christianity, and this assumption consumed Ellen White to the point she fabricated visions she showed by her actions never occurred. Don't let that same error consume you into a lie.
 
Upvote 0