FrenchyBearpaw
Take time for granite.
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They should not be ground shaking. I do not think they are ground shaking at all.
They are the common duties of man. It is what men and women are supposed to do. Nothing extraordinary in this hypothetical world of brightlights' which is in question.
Since I don't, in fact, believe in God, your conclusion is somewhat amiss.Your complaints are indirect evidence of your belief in God.
Since I don't, in fact, believe in God, your conclusion is somewhat amiss.
And I can't help but notice you don't have a response to the problem of suffering - you believe in an all-powerful being that does nothing while children are raped, yet insist with a straight face that this being is loving, merciful, caring, etc.
This is why I believe that, if God did exist, the world would be a better place: such a being wouldn't sit back and do nothing.
If by humanism, you mean belief that humans are of infinite worth, dignity, honor, and value, and that human life should be treated with the utmost respect and care and love regardless of one's race, creed, religious beliefs (or lack thereof), and whatever else, then yes, I am a humanist. In this sense, Christ was the greatest humanist of all. I am a follower of His, therefore, it would not be incorrect to label me a humanist if by humanist you mean in the sense above.
If you mean humanism in some secular sense such as secular humanism, then clearly I am not an adherent of such doctrine.
My view of humanity is that our ultimate worth, value, and dignity lie in the fact that we were created in the very image of God and that means that each and every person on the face of this earth is created equal, with rights to respect, honor, and love.
And I can't help but notice you don't have a response to the problem of suffering - you believe in an all-powerful being that does nothing while children are raped, yet insist with a straight face that this being is loving, merciful, caring, etc.
This is why I believe that, if God did exist, the world would be a better place: such a being wouldn't sit back and do nothing.
Theodicy has you stumped? It's really not that hard a puzzle to figure out. The first step to grasping it is the recognition that death is not to be feared but is in fact the best possible option in many cases. After that the whole concept of time. This is all confusing because we only see up to now. From God's vantage point, He not only sees the ending but is there already so our present distress is not so pressing. And yet He actually feels our every sorrow and is moved with compassion ...
you have not figured out how to move His hand, and that might be your biggest problem with this.
Since I don't, in fact, believe in God..
I can't tell.
Everything you have been saying about human suffering suggests to me that you think that Christians are wrong for believing in a God who does not eradicate suffering from the world. But if you think Christians are wrong, then you must have a concept of what is "right". But if you have a concept of what is right and what is wrong, what is good and what is evil, then you must believe in the existence of a moral law or standard which is the basis for how you determine what is good and what is evil, what is right and what is wrong. But if you believe in the existence of a moral law or standard and this law or standard is appealed to to condemn the actions of a person, even though that person is of the opinion that they are right, then you believe in a law or standard that is true for every person, regardless of their opinions, beliefs, or cultural practices. But if you believe in a law or standard that is true for every person regardless of their subjective opinion, then you believe in an objective moral law or standard. If you believe in an objective moral law or standard, then you believe in a moral law Giver who exists over and above those which are under said law. This law Giver is God, whom you deny in principle, but in reality, you live as if He exists.
If by humanism, you mean belief that humans are of infinite worth, dignity, honor, and value, and that human life should be treated with the utmost respect and care and love regardless of one's race, creed, religious beliefs (or lack thereof), and whatever else, then yes, I am a humanist. In this sense, Christ was the greatest humanist of all. I am a follower of His, therefore, it would not be incorrect to label me a humanist if by humanist you mean in the sense above.
If you mean humanism in some secular sense such as secular humanism, then clearly I am not an adherent of such doctrine.
My view of humanity is that our ultimate worth, value, and dignity lie in the fact that we were created in the very image of God and that means that each and every person on the face of this earth is created equal, with rights to respect, honor, and love.
So you're a humanist insofar as your god tells you to be. So if he told to tomorrow to not value life, you'd have to follow his orders.
Ravi Zarcharias is a bobble head.
No one had to tell you it's probably not a good idea to sleep with your neighbor's wife!
Yeah, but if in a fit of jealousy, he told you to strike down every other person you saw, you'd have to, ... slaves to Christ 'n all.Great statement there!
Does not follow. Big little word, IF. Your concern here is covered by that guy you may have heard something about, the founder of the Abrahamic religions, Abraham? That is the very first step in the Judeo Christian traditions, and you have not yet grasped its ramifications? He was told not to value life, as you put it. He decided not to do that. That was the right thing to do, and was very much unexpected at the time. This is the picture for how we are to become righteous, even.
So you're a humanist insofar as your god tells you to be. So if he told to tomorrow to not value life, you'd have to follow his orders.
Yeah, but if in a fit of jealousy, he told you to strike down every other person you saw, you'd have to, ... slaves to Christ 'n all.
I, on the other hand, am free to live moral all the time, because it's the right thing to do. I don't have to pretend I'm a sinner in the hands of an angry god.
Right.You are a physicist right?
Another big "if" from FrenchyBearpaw.....
And that bugs you?
Good. It should bug you, that your morality comes from an external loci, one that is arbitrary, and depending on the whims of god, could change, at any moment.
As an atheist and humanist, I'm free to choose morality based on the best scenario for everyone, because it's intuitively right -evolved trait. Just watch young children play together, they'll let you know when they've been wronged.
Even Bill Craig has said publicly, that whatever the god of the bible may say, including wholesale ethnicide, is by definition, moral.
Including ethnicide.Not at all!
I actually find it amusing.
God does not change. I am sure you've heard that before?
And Bill Craig was right. Whatever God says is moral since He is the locus and paradigm of morality and the source of all that is good and just and right.
Theodicy excuses God's inaction by making him cruel, lame, or stupid, or by redefining morality to make it all work out. Let's see which you do.Theodicy has you stumped?
Ah, so you've gone for the 'redefine morality' approach: "Hey, it's not immoral that that little girl was raped - in fact, it was the best possible option!".It's really not that hard a puzzle to figure out. The first step to grasping it is the recognition that death is not to be feared but is in fact the best possible option in many cases.
How lovely for him. How does this excuse his inaction, exactly?After that the whole concept of time. This is all confusing because we only see up to now. From God's vantage point, He not only sees the ending but is there already so our present distress is not so pressing.
Just not enough to do anything, right?And yet He actually feels our every sorrow and is moved with compassion ...
My biggest problem is that suffering exists in the world - people are raped, murdered, enslaved, diseased, etc. If God exists, then he is either unable and/or unwilling to alleviate suffering - unless, of course, he doesn't exist.you have not figured out how to move His hand, and that might be your biggest problem with this.
Yeah, but if in a fit of jealousy, he told you to strike down every other person you saw, you'd have to, ... slaves to Christ 'n all.
I, on the other hand, am free to live moral all the time, because it's the right thing to do. I don't have to pretend I'm a sinner in the hands of an angry god.
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