• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Husband caused another stir in our family.

lambkisses

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2016
445
114
39
usa
✟37,307.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
So over Christmas dinner I found out the truth behind why my 18 year old niece and my husband were so close. It turns out 1 year ago he paid for a secret abortion for her and assisted her in getting the parental covent waiver. This came out because her 16 year old sister spilled the beans. I believe my husband meant well but again I am at a loss as to how to handle my family. My mother and sister in law are livid, my father and brother (the my niece's step dad) are extremely non commital in their feelings, and my niece's boyfriend and his parents want to pursue legal action.
My husband doesn't seem to grasp the gravity of the situation, he doesn't think this is a big deal and he believes that the fact that a Harris County judge was the one who granted the parental notification waiver he is absolved of all responsibility. How should I feel about this?
 

lambkisses

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2016
445
114
39
usa
✟37,307.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Well, so far you've said how everyone else feels about it. How do you feel about it? Seems like a heavy situation.
I really don't know how to feel in all honesty. I hate how my family is now full of strife but I love my husband. It's difficult to be angry because what he says is not completely without merit. This is why I am seeking guidance now. I have always believed that to abortion is considered murder but my husband doesn't believe that scripture actually addresses abortion and he believes that the whole abortion = murder school of thought is just the interpretation of men. He argues that God had not actually specified this point, he also argues that even if it is murder the blood of Jesus forgives all sins past and future so he doesn't see why it is a big deal that my niece got the abortion.
My sister in law, my mother and the parents of the boyfriend are angry because they believe abortion to be murder, and they feel my husband had no place helping circumventing the authority of the parents (niece was only 17 at the time), and the parents of the boyfriend really really wanted the grand child. Also they are livid that my husband had apparently prepaid for a years worth of birth control for her. My husband's argument is that it was better she got the procedure at planned parenthood, on a sterile, legal medical facility and was given a safe ride than if she was desperate for alternatives and either tried to self abort or went to an unlicensed doctor.
I am distressed and conflicted at the attitude of my father and brother as well. My both of them are grumpy that my husband kept the secret but they both tacitly accept this as a good thing. My brother is relieved that he doesn't have another mouth to feed and my father is overjoyed that the boyfriend will not be part of his family (the boyfriend and his family are Hispanic, that is my dad's stated reason ).
I really do not know what to think, I am finding it very difficult to both be a good wife and what i have always been taught as good Christian. I love my husband and vowed to love, honor and obey but so much of what my husband has stirred up in my family just seem so unchristian. I am wondering if I am being too critical? Or am I basing what I believe to be "good and Christian" on the opinion of other imperfect people.
 
Upvote 0

Paul of Eugene OR

Finally Old Enough
Site Supporter
May 3, 2014
6,373
1,858
✟278,532.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Families are quite capable of having rows regardless of the reasons. Such family rows are a good reason, some would believe, to not bring another human being into the picture. So far I have great respect for what your husband has done, based only on what you've shared.
 
Upvote 0

lambkisses

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2016
445
114
39
usa
✟37,307.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Families are quite capable of having rows regardless of the reasons. Such family rows are a good reason, some would believe, to not bring another human being into the picture. So far I have great respect for what your husband has done, based only on what you've shared.
So I shouldn't feel guilty over seeing merit in his actions? I really want to agree with him because I do see the pragmatism in his actions but on the other hand God doesn't call us to be pragmatic. I am at the point in my faith where I am questioning if my moral compass is truly aligned with what God wants or was it influenced by the opinions of those whom I grew up around.
 
Upvote 0

Paul of Eugene OR

Finally Old Enough
Site Supporter
May 3, 2014
6,373
1,858
✟278,532.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
So I shouldn't feel guilty over seeing merit in his actions? I really want to agree with him because I do see the pragmatism in his actions but on the other hand God doesn't call us to be pragmatic. I am at the point in my faith where I am questioning if my moral compass is truly aligned with what God wants or was it influenced by the opinions of those whom I grew up around.

We are all influenced by the opinions of those amoung whom we grew up. We are all faced with questioning these moral absolutes as we grow older. In my own journey I have concluded the abortion bans some try to uphold are of men, not of God. I cannot make your journey for you.
 
Upvote 0

JackRT

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2015
15,722
16,445
82
small town Ontario, Canada
✟767,445.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
It would be wonderful if every moral decision were simply a matter of "black and white".


"In our world moral decisions are often complex --- not clearly black or white, but a murky shade of gray. Actions often seemingly immoral may still be the better・choice. For example, a German Lutheran minister, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, participated in a plot to kill Adolph Hitler. Although he believed murder was immoral, the horrible situation in Germany under the Nazi regime overrode his commitment to pacifism and nonviolence, and brought him finally to the murder plot. He reasoned that the guilt accruing to him for murder would be less than his guilt for doing nothing. As he saw it, he had to choose between the lesser of two evils. It wasn't the right choice but it wasn't the wrong choice either. Decisions about unplanned pregnancies are not infrequently like Bonhoeffer's choice, a very dirty shade of gray --- however much anti-abortionists try to convince us that the choice is always black and white. For people of conscience, however, legal actions are not always moral, nor are illegal actions always immoral. It depends on the situation."
~~
Charles W. Hendrick, Professor Emeritus, Missouri State University
 
  • Like
Reactions: mkgal1
Upvote 0

Poppyseed78

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 13, 2016
3,099
3,312
US
✟320,982.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That is a complicated situation. I don't think anything will come of your niece's boyfriend's parents pursuing legal action. That will likely not go anywhere.

As for the rest - I would be hurt if my husband did this and hid it from me. It's a big thing to keep secret. I would want to understand why he didn't mention it to me. I understand you and your husband have some conflicting views on abortion, but marriages don't thrive where there is deceit. This is a big thing to keep hidden.

Another thing - he paid for a year's worth of birth control for your niece. Yet he didn't want to help out your friend, who is having financial trouble (obviously there was a lot more backstory there, and he wanted to keep the money he saved). Although that was a separate issue, I am starting to see him a bit as a hypocrite. So he wants to extend help to people, but only if he believes in the cause? What is his criteria for helping out a friend/family member in need?

How your relatives feel about this is irrelevant at this point. How do YOU feel? Did you discuss this with him yet?
 
Upvote 0

NothingIsImpossible

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2015
5,618
3,253
✟289,942.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
My husband doesn't seem to grasp the gravity of the situation, he doesn't think this is a big deal and he believes that the fact that a Harris County judge was the one who granted the parental notification waiver he is absolved of all responsibility. How should I feel about this?
Maybe it does absolve him legally. But not absolve him for having to answer to God for murdering a child. He may not have did the abortion himself but you know the saying... guilty by association.

I have always believed that to abortion is considered murder but my husband doesn't believe that scripture actually addresses abortion and he believes that the whole abortion = murder school of thought is just the interpretation of men.
I would wonder what else he doesn't believe is a right interpretation. I mean if you disagree with him on this and push hard will he decide to leave you because the verse about divorce is "interpretated wrong"?. Just making a point, obviously I don't know him.

and they feel my husband had no place helping circumventing the authority of the parents (
Its true, he did circumvent it and he shouldn't have.

So I shouldn't feel guilty over seeing merit in his actions?
To be honest yes. There is zero reason to find the situation ok enough to help someone get rid of a baby like that. Having a baby is what happens when you have sex. Its a risk that you pay for if not prepared. Its why I get so upset that people see babies as a easy problem to "fix" so it doesn't interrupt their lives. They are people, not toss away items. God had formed that baby in the womb. It was a life. Now they be missing out on the blessings of a child. Who know if life would have turned out for the better now. This makes me so sad.

I can tell you my wife and I aren't ready for a baby just yet, but if she got pregnant I would never resort to abortion. Now if my wife helped someone to get an abortion.... I don't think I would trust her for a LONG time. Because this is something on the level of cheating (in terms of how bad it is), if not worse really. I probably would not talk to her for awhile either. Make her attend counseling. I can't recall the verse off hand but even the bible basically says something along the lines of woe to those who hurt a child. Though I may be thinking of it wrong.

I pray he at least prays to God for forgiveness for this. Because while we all mess up, I wouldn't want to die and stand before God with such a thing unforgiven by God. Marriage wise obviously theres not much you can but tough it out and eventually grow past it.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Gwen-is-new!
Upvote 0

akmom

Newbie
Jun 13, 2012
1,479
336
U.S.
✟23,025.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
I do think some Christian circles get really obsessive about the abortion issue, considering that it isn't explicitly mentioned in the Bible. If you look at how often the Bible talks about sexual immorality, greed, killing, stealing and lying, it leaves little room for confusion. It does seem like if abortion were the ultimate sin (and many circles seem to think it is, or at least see it as the single most important topic for legislation), that it would receive similar straight-forward condemnation in the Bible. Perhaps it just wasn’t as realistic of an option, historically, to merit discussion. (I don’t know how complicated the procedure would have been in ancient times. They seemed capable of performing Caesarian sections, after all.) I do know that the argument against contraception is often based on a singular passage that isn’t clear either: Was Onan’s efforts at contraception inherently sinful, or only because God specifically commanded him to reproduce? Again, we can’t be sure because it isn’t explicit nor is it discussed again. Even some commandments which did seem straightforward (like consumption of pork) were apparently given for some specific reason that later did not apply, because the New Testament in most cases condones such things. So… I think it’s quite possible that some commandments, like “be fruitful and multiply,” applied to people in history but not necessarily to cultures today. Thus the lack of scripture about contraception and abortion. What is does say is that we were formed in the womb, which suggests value even before birth, and some passages in the Old Testament call for punishment if an unborn child is harmed by foul play. (Again, this involved compensation for the mother, so it’s unclear what it would mean if it were the mother’s decision.)

While I personally find the Bible’s silence on contraception to mean it is probably okay, I don’t think abortion is. I think we can agree that infanticide is wrong and falls under murder, but your husband may be right that abortion isn’t the same. It’s pretty clear about sexual immorality though, so yes your niece was in the wrong in the first place and yes, you are justified in being upset that your husband enabled the behavior. It may have been wrong of her to circumvent her parents too, but our society kind of has a weird standard for when childhood ends. It’s kind of hard to argue that parents should be making reproductive decisions for their 17-year-old child unless she has some unique disability. And in any case, your husband didn’t forge a court order for her; it was the judge who made that decision. Legally, the boyfriend’s parents have no business in the matter. Not even their son has any legal rights over an unborn child, and anyone who expects grandkids from a teenage girl is messed up anyway.

I’m tempted to side with your husband because it’s convenient and we all know that teens make pitiful parents, but if it were my husband I’d probably be livid. I too just feel like abortion is the wrong decision, but it’s also the product of many other wrong decisions that he didn’t play a part in. He did what he thought to be more right. Even if it’s not.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: evoeth
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Site Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,338
7,348
California
✟573,733.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I am at the point in my faith where I am questioning if my moral compass is truly aligned with what God wants or was it influenced by the opinions of those whom I grew up around
This may be a beginning of a journey for you. I think it's common to get to this point where you struggle with "what to keep" and what no longer truly fits with your belief system (but more just beliefs that you inherited).

Maybe you can do a search of the Bible yourself...(in contemplative prayer and without the voices of others) about what you believe God would approve in this situation.

Do your niece and her boyfriend have a loving relationship? It sounds as if adoption wouldn't have been an option, because of what you mentioned about the boyfriend's family wishing for a grandchild. That sort of makes your niece more of an "incubator".....not a member of their family. You also mentioned your BIL wasn't too angry because this means he doesn't have another mouth to feed (so your niece and her baby would be dependent on your sister and BIL?). Can you imagine what the future few years would be like if your niece had gone through with the pregnancy (against her true desire)? "Pro-life" should be more than just pro-pregnancy and delivery.....it should extend out to what's in the absolute best for all the lives concerned (in my opinion).
 
  • Like
Reactions: JackRT
Upvote 0

lambkisses

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2016
445
114
39
usa
✟37,307.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Another thing - he paid for a year's worth of birth control for your niece. Yet he didn't want to help out your friend, who is having financial trouble (obviously there was a lot more backstory there, and he wanted to keep the money he saved). Although that was a separate issue, I am starting to see him a bit as a hypocrite. So he wants to extend help to people, but only if he believes in the cause? What is his criteria for helping out a friend/family member in need?
According to him he just hates my friend and he won't spend any of his share of his discretionary money on her where as my niece is a good helper when it comes to autowork. I can't say I begrudge him since as many people pointed out he saved that money and he should get to choose who he spends it on.
I’m tempted to side with your husband because it’s convenient and we all know that teens make pitiful parents, but if it were my husband I’d probably be livid. I too just feel like abortion is the wrong decision, but it’s also the product of many other wrong decisions that he didn’t play a part in. He did what he thought to be more right. Even if it’s not.
I am tempted to side with him too because I do see the pragmatism in his actions. Like I said I am not criticizing him, I honestly in my heart of hearts don't know what the "right" answer is when it comes to abortion. I have been taught since I was young that abortion is murder but all evidence is just interpretations of scripture, like you said abortion is not addressed in the same black and white as theft, sexual immorality, and idolitory. However, like yourself I personally do think the bible is leaning more on the side of abortion being wrong. Also my husband argued that since God gets all the little children, if abortion was murder, the baby soul would go straight to God and be saved automatically. I find I am completely unable to form an argument against that.
I pray he at least prays to God for forgiveness for this. Because while we all mess up, I wouldn't want to die and stand before God with such a thing unforgiven by God. Marriage wise obviously theres not much you can but tough it out and eventually grow past it.
This I find a little confusing. I was always taught salvation is from grace alone and no action neither positive nor negative would affect that.
Legally, the boyfriend’s parents have no business in the matter. Not even their son has any legal rights over an unborn child, and anyone who expects grandkids from a teenage girl is messed up anyway.
Neither my husband nor I are to concerned about any legal reprocussions from the family of boyfriend. I just wish my husband was not so cavalier about his lack of fear of them. He got into a fist fight with boyfriend's dad and has to go to court for that but like he says, is just a class C misdemeanor. The parents of the boyfriend seem to think they have a case because my niece some how got the idea that if she wrapped a hajib around her head and claimed to be a Muslim the judge would be more sympathetic to her petition for the waiver of parental conscent.
 
Upvote 0

NothingIsImpossible

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2015
5,618
3,253
✟289,942.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This I find a little confusing. I was always taught salvation is from grace alone and no action neither positive nor negative would affect that.
Oh no your right. It doesn't change his salvation, I just meant we still answer for things and may have less "Rewards" as the bible says. That and I wouldn't want God chewing me out about it because I would have no reason to give Him (even though I still go to heaven anyways).
 
Upvote 0

lambkisses

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2016
445
114
39
usa
✟37,307.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Oh no your right. It doesn't change his salvation, I just meant we still answer for things and may have less "Rewards" as the bible says. That and I wouldn't want God chewing me out about it because I would have no reason to give Him (even though I still go to heaven anyways).
I have never really understood what "reward" in heaven means. Both my husband and I have heard of storing jewels up in heaven but neither of us really truly understood what that meant. He began to resent bring told that but I just never understood it.
 
Upvote 0

Paul of Eugene OR

Finally Old Enough
Site Supporter
May 3, 2014
6,373
1,858
✟278,532.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I have never really understood what "reward" in heaven means. Both my husband and I have heard of storing jewels up in heaven but neither of us really truly understood what that meant. He began to resent bring told that but I just never understood it.

Everyone in heaven will start at some point x that consists partly of how they earned rewards and partly how they are given grace. After that we will grow into x2, x3, x4, forever. We will all have a turn at various levels.
 
Upvote 0

JackRT

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2015
15,722
16,445
82
small town Ontario, Canada
✟767,445.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
Everyone in heaven will start at some point x that consists partly of how they earned rewards and partly how they are given grace. After that we will grow into x2, x3, x4, forever. We will all have a turn at various levels.

Eyewitness account?
 
Upvote 0

lambkisses

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2016
445
114
39
usa
✟37,307.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Everyone in heaven will start at some point x that consists partly of how they earned rewards and partly how they are given grace. After that we will grow into x2, x3, x4, forever. We will all have a turn at various levels.
What does that mean exactly and how does scripture support that?
 
Upvote 0

akmom

Newbie
Jun 13, 2012
1,479
336
U.S.
✟23,025.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
This may be a beginning of a journey for you. I think it's common to get to this point where you struggle with "what to keep" and what no longer truly fits with your belief system (but more just beliefs that you inherited).

This.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: mkgal1
Upvote 0