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Robbie_James_Francis

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I hear Humanism either badmouthed or dismissed on an almost daily basis. For me personally, it's not a 'religion' in the sense we have, but neither is it purely atheism. It's one thing to say that you lack belief in deities and another entirely to ascribe to humanism. I have a hard time explaining to people (largely atheist or agnostic) how I feel spiritually as a humanist. To me, humanity and the human experience is religious, it's profound and it is worthy of some manner of adoration.

Anyway, I won't go into my philosophical ramblings about my love of Humanity, but I was wondering what people thought about humanism?

Just to say, this is not a conversion thing, it's not even a raising awareness thing. As long as people are happy and not hurting anyone else I don't really care what they believe. I am just genuinely wondering what people think about Humanism and humanists. I don't want people to ascribe to my ideas (I'm usually wrong anyway) if they don't naturally or don't want to.

:)

(my capitalisation in this post is all over the place...apologies) Apologies also for the qualifications, I'm trying to be unequivocally clear.

:)
 

white dove

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Wow, really? I guess, as sad as it sounds, it's comforting to know that we all fall into the same boat at times, with regard to being dismissed for our beliefs.

From what I know of Humanism, I had thought before that if I ever lost my belief in Christianity, I would probably adopt Humanism. It's odd though because, while I believe in the good in people, I don't believe in people at all for the most part. I think we're nuts, slow learners, consistantly inconsistant and things of that sort. I'm a pessmist that way, but I think certain aspects of my own belief system as it is now sort of encourages me to find the beauty in other people - to respect and love them as equals.
 
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Everlasting33

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From what I have read of Humanism it empathizes the importance of goodness in human beings and without the need of the supernatural to explain mysteries or create morality.

Humanism embraces the human potential and it is idealistic. It is optimistic of human nature and wants to make the world a better place.

As much as I like the humanistic philosophy and I wish everyone lived up to their potential, I believe most of it is simply idealistic not realistic. From my own personal experience and from what I have witnessed, I believe people invest more and are better individuals when they give their lives over to Jesus Christ. I believe human beings are more naturally selfish and greedy than selfless. More naturally inclined to engage in destructive than constructive behavior. Generally, we desire power and control over vulnerability.

The world today revolves around love of money and power/control. I have become a more selfless and happier individual when I returned to Christianity. While Humanism is a nice concept it still falls short of the power of Jesus Christ.
 
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b&wpac4

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From what I have read of Humanism it empathizes the importance of goodness in human beings and without the need of the supernatural to explain mysteries or create morality.

Humanism embraces the human potential and it is idealistic. It is optimistic of human nature and wants to make the world a better place.

As much as I like the humanistic philosophy and I wish everyone lived up to their potential, I believe most of it is simply idealistic not realistic. From my own personal experience and from what I have witnessed, I believe people invest more and are better individuals when they give their lives over to Jesus Christ. I believe human beings are more naturally selfish and greedy than selfless. More naturally inclined to engage in destructive than constructive behavior. Generally, we desire power and control over vulnerability.

The world today revolves around love of money and power/control. I have become a more selfless and happier individual when I returned to Christianity. While Humanism is a nice concept it still falls short of the power of Jesus Christ.

Let's be honest here. Most people fall far short of their belief system. How many Christians have you met that are in name only? That don't know the first thing about how they are supposed to be living or behaving?

I think if it is idealistic, that's fine. The fact that some don't live up to it does not mean it doesn't work, just that they fail to live up to it. The difference is that there are something like 75% of people that identify as Christians. It's so high a percentage, that I think many Christians are shocked when they meet non Christians. This makes it a lot easier to overlook the shortcomings of Christians who fail to live up to the standards professed in the Bible.
 
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Everlasting33

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Let's be honest here. Most people fall far short of their belief system. How many Christians have you met that are in name only? That don't know the first thing about how they are supposed to be living or behaving?

I think if it is idealistic, that's fine. The fact that some don't live up to it does not mean it doesn't work, just that they fail to live up to it. The difference is that there are something like 75% of people that identify as Christians. It's so high a percentage, that I think many Christians are shocked when they meet non Christians. This makes it a lot easier to overlook the shortcomings of Christians who fail to live up to the standards professed in the Bible.

For various reasons, yes, people often fall short of their belief systems no matter what they are. In my opinion, a lot of our current problems are rooted in childhood when our needs were not met. Unmet needs and inner conflicts only become stronger in adults and that is why we see a lot of destructive tendencies (broad term that may include drug and alcohol addictions, low self-esteem, mental illness, personality disorders, and so on).

Human nature seems to be more slighted toward negativity, regression, self-defeating behaviors, and pain.
 
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quatona

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Anyway, I won't go into my philosophical ramblings about my love of Humanity, but I was wondering what people thought about humanism?
I think this question is nearly as impossible to answer as the question "What do you think about Christianity?".
 
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Polycarp_fan

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I hear Humanism either badmouthed or dismissed on an almost daily basis.

Viewing what it has done to our youth in the school system I can see why. And of course most people that know me here know how I feel about humanism. To me it is either hedonism with a PhD, or straight out "Do as thou wilt, though harm none." Which of course has harmed so many you can't count them.

For me personally, it's not a 'religion' in the sense we have, but neither is it purely atheism.

It was setup as a religion. A secular version of it. read the original Humanist Manifesto.

It's one thing to say that you lack belief in deities and another entirely to ascribe to humanism.

They are as interchangeable as Honda and Acura parts. Just read the Humanist Manifesto.

I have a hard time explaining to people (largely atheist or agnostic) how I feel spiritually as a humanist.

That would seem to go against the very declarations in the Manifesto wouldn't it?

To me, humanity and the human experience is religious, it's profound and it is worthy of some manner of adoration.

Some manner of adoration? What does that mean?

Anyway, I won't go into my philosophical ramblings about my love of Humanity, but I was wondering what people thought about humanism?

Will you accuse me of flaming Humanists and liberals and progressives if I do? Humansim seems to be just about as hostile to Christians as our worst enemies throughout history have ever been. I view it the same as I do Islamism in regards to what happens to Christians under a Humanist power structure. Which is basically our entire secular system in America and of course Europe.

Just to say, this is not a conversion thing, it's not even a raising awareness thing. As long as people are happy and not hurting anyone else I don't really care what they believe.

Validating seeing Humanism as "Do as thou wilt, though harm none," then?


I am just genuinely wondering what people think about Humanism and humanists.

Usually claiming to be educated, highly authoritarian, and desiring to rule/influence all of society. Just a cursory study of John Dewey would validate that.

I don't want people to ascribe to my ideas (I'm usually wrong anyway) if they don't naturally or don't want to.

As a Bible-affirming Christian, I have great concern about Humanism and Humanists. It, and they have taken almost complete control of our social-moral system. I'll come back and edit this post with the URL to the Hating Christians thread where I show why this is the case, here: http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7282707


And here's Manifesto I:

Humanist Manifesto I

The Manifesto is a product of many minds. It was designed to represent a developing point of view, not a new creed. The individuals whose signatures appear would, had they been writing individual statements, have stated the propositions in differing terms. The importance of the document is that more than thirty men have come to general agreement on matters of final concern and that these men are undoubtedly representative of a large number who are forging a new philosophy out of the materials of the modern world.
— Raymond B. Bragg (1933)




The time has come for widespread recognition of the radical changes in religious beliefs throughout the modern world. The time is past for mere revision of traditional attitudes. Science and economic change have disrupted the old beliefs. Religions the world over are under the necessity of coming to terms with new conditions created by a vastly increased knowledge and experience. In every field of human activity, the vital movement is now in the direction of a candid and explicit humanism. In order that religious humanism may be better understood we, the undersigned, desire to make certain affirmations which we believe the facts of our contemporary life demonstrate.
There is great danger of a final, and we believe fatal, identification of the word religion with doctrines and methods which have lost their significance and which are powerless to solve the problem of human living in the Twentieth Century. Religions have always been means for realizing the highest values of life. Their end has been accomplished through the interpretation of the total environing situation (theology or world view), the sense of values resulting therefrom (goal or ideal), and the technique (cult), established for realizing the satisfactory life. A change in any of these factors results in alteration of the outward forms of religion. This fact explains the changefulness of religions through the centuries. But through all changes religion itself remains constant in its quest for abiding values, an inseparable feature of human life.
Today man's larger understanding of the universe, his scientific achievements, and deeper appreciation of brotherhood, have created a situation which requires a new statement of the means and purposes of religion. Such a vital, fearless, and frank religion capable of furnishing adequate social goals and personal satisfactions may appear to many people as a complete break with the past. While this age does owe a vast debt to the traditional religions, it is none the less obvious that any religion that can hope to be a synthesizing and dynamic force for today must be shaped for the needs of this age. To establish such a religion is a major necessity of the present. It is a responsibility which rests upon this generation. We therefore affirm the following:
FIRST: Religious humanists regard the universe as self-existing and not created.

SECOND: Humanism believes that man is a part of nature and that he has emerged as a result of a continuous process.

THIRD: Holding an organic view of life, humanists find that the traditional dualism of mind and body must be rejected.

FOURTH: Humanism recognizes that man's religious culture and civilization, as clearly depicted by anthropology and history, are the product of a gradual development due to his interaction with his natural environment and with his social heritage. The individual born into a particular culture is largely molded by that culture.

FIFTH: Humanism asserts that the nature of the universe depicted by modern science makes unacceptable any supernatural or cosmic guarantees of human values. Obviously humanism does not deny the possibility of realities as yet undiscovered, but it does insist that the way to determine the existence and value of any and all realities is by means of intelligent inquiry and by the assessment of their relations to human needs. Religion must formulate its hopes and plans in the light of the scientific spirit and method.

SIXTH: We are convinced that the time has passed for theism, deism, modernism, and the several varieties of "new thought".

SEVENTH: Religion consists of those actions, purposes, and experiences which are humanly significant. Nothing human is alien to the religious. It includes labor, art, science, philosophy, love, friendship, recreation — all that is in its degree expressive of intelligently satisfying human living. The distinction between the sacred and the secular can no longer be maintained.

EIGHTH: Religious Humanism considers the complete realization of human personality to be the end of man's life and seeks its development and fulfillment in the here and now. This is the explanation of the humanist's social passion.

NINTH: In the place of the old attitudes involved in worship and prayer the humanist finds his religious emotions expressed in a heightened sense of personal life and in a cooperative effort to promote social well-being.

TENTH: It follows that there will be no uniquely religious emotions and attitudes of the kind hitherto associated with belief in the supernatural.

ELEVENTH: Man will learn to face the crises of life in terms of his knowledge of their naturalness and probability. Reasonable and manly attitudes will be fostered by education and supported by custom. We assume that humanism will take the path of social and mental hygiene and discourage sentimental and unreal hopes and wishful thinking.

TWELFTH: Believing that religion must work increasingly for joy in living, religious humanists aim to foster the creative in man and to encourage achievements that add to the satisfactions of life.

THIRTEENTH: Religious humanism maintains that all associations and institutions exist for the fulfillment of human life. The intelligent evaluation, transformation, control, and direction of such associations and institutions with a view to the enhancement of human life is the purpose and program of humanism. Certainly religious institutions, their ritualistic forms, ecclesiastical methods, and communal activities must be reconstituted as rapidly as experience allows, in order to function effectively in the modern world.

FOURTEENTH: The humanists are firmly convinced that existing acquisitive and profit-motivated society has shown itself to be inadequate and that a radical change in methods, controls, and motives must be instituted. A socialized and cooperative economic order must be established to the end that the equitable distribution of the means of life be possible. The goal of humanism is a free and universal society in which people voluntarily and intelligently cooperate for the common good. Humanists demand a shared life in a shared world.

FIFTEENTH AND LAST: We assert that humanism will: (a) affirm life rather than deny it; (b) seek to elicit the possibilities of life, not flee from them; and (c) endeavor to establish the conditions of a satisfactory life for all, not merely for the few. By this positive morale and intention humanism will be guided, and from this perspective and alignment the techniques and efforts of humanism will flow.
So stand the theses of religious humanism. Though we consider the religious forms and ideas of our fathers no longer adequate, the quest for the good life is still the central task for mankind. Man is at last becoming aware that he alone is responsible for the realization of the world of his dreams, that he has within himself the power for its achievement. He must set intelligence and will to the task.

[EDITOR'S NOTE: There were 34 signers of this document, including Anton J. Carlson, John Dewey, John H. Dietrich, R. Lester Mondale, Charles Francis Potter, Curtis W. Reese, and Edwin H. Wilson.]

Copyright © 1973 by the American Humanist Association
 
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CCGirl

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I wouldnt take the manifesto too seriously, it is endorsed by 34 people. I find humanism the best way for humanity to exist peacefully with each other. I would love for someone to go through the above list and try to make arguments against the points.

On a side note, I saw the movie Religulous last night, which only confirms my belief in Humanism.
 
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lawtonfogle

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I hear Humanism either badmouthed or dismissed on an almost daily basis. For me personally, it's not a 'religion' in the sense we have, but neither is it purely atheism. It's one thing to say that you lack belief in deities and another entirely to ascribe to humanism. I have a hard time explaining to people (largely atheist or agnostic) how I feel spiritually as a humanist. To me, humanity and the human experience is religious, it's profound and it is worthy of some manner of adoration.

Anyway, I won't go into my philosophical ramblings about my love of Humanity, but I was wondering what people thought about humanism?

Just to say, this is not a conversion thing, it's not even a raising awareness thing. As long as people are happy and not hurting anyone else I don't really care what they believe. I am just genuinely wondering what people think about Humanism and humanists. I don't want people to ascribe to my ideas (I'm usually wrong anyway) if they don't naturally or don't want to.

:)

(my capitalisation in this post is all over the place...apologies) Apologies also for the qualifications, I'm trying to be unequivocally clear.

:)


I have never seen an agreed upon definition of humanism, and a numerous number of the ones I have seen apply to me, at least on the days I feel like humanity has a chance...
 
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lawtonfogle

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Going though the manifesto.

Before I say agree or disagree, one must understand that I am going from how the world appears, why my beliefs and thoughts based on the world, not on what faith I may have, are.

First: Agree
Second: Agree
Third: Disagree (ok, actually undecided)
Fourth: Agree
Fifth: At first I was disagree, then I realize it the first part was a bit less absolute then how I first read it, so agree.
Sixth: Question mark? Exactly what are they saying here?
Seventh: Unsure, I have read some on this, but I have yet to come to a full decision.
Eighth: What do they mean 'human personality'?
Ninth: Not really a thing to agree or disagree with. I do find both of those nice, but since I am not a religious Humanist I cannot say I agree.
Tenth: I am withholding here as well.
Eleventh: Disagree
Twelfth: Agree (with the aims, not the reason to aim)
Thirteenth: Disagree, though some 'word twisting' and I may agree.
Fourteenth: Agree. But didn't they say they disagree with wishful thinking in Eleventh?
Fifteenth: Agree

I guess I could go more detailed as to why, but this was more of an exercise for myself where I just allowed others to see the results.
 
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TeddyKGB

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For some reason it has always meant to me promoting and elevating the human species over animals with no allusions to the divine, which is something I disagree with.
I would be surprised if you have ever heard a humanist describe her philosophy in that way.
 
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HighwayMan

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I would be surprised if you have ever heard a humanist describe her philosophy in that way.

I don't think I've ever really spoken with one, but the impression I get from what I read is that, although not connected to the divine, human morals and reason make human beings "special", or at least make them stand-out in some way. The logical question then is "special" in comparison to what, and my guess would be the animal world.
 
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lawtonfogle

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I don't think I've ever really spoken with one, but the impression I get from what I read is that, although not connected to the divine, human morals and reason make human beings "special", or at least make them stand-out in some way. The logical question then is "special" in comparison to what, and my guess would be the animal world.

Makes it sound so... specieist. If this is the case, then I am more of a personist or a intelligentist instead of an humanist.

Yay for my replaying being about 20% made up words.
 
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Axioma

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If you don't follow all the rules in the humanist manifesto, the humanist pope excommunicates you. It's true!
sadsmith.gif
 
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ReverendDG

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Going though the manifesto.

Before I say agree or disagree, one must understand that I am going from how the world appears, why my beliefs and thoughts based on the world, not on what faith I may have, are.

First: Agree
Second: Agree
Third: Disagree (ok, actually undecided)
Fourth: Agree
Fifth: At first I was disagree, then I realize it the first part was a bit less absolute then how I first read it, so agree.
Sixth: Question mark? Exactly what are they saying here?
Seventh: Unsure, I have read some on this, but I have yet to come to a full decision.
Eighth: What do they mean 'human personality'?
Ninth: Not really a thing to agree or disagree with. I do find both of those nice, but since I am not a religious Humanist I cannot say I agree.
Tenth: I am withholding here as well.
Eleventh: Disagree
Twelfth: Agree (with the aims, not the reason to aim)
Thirteenth: Disagree, though some 'word twisting' and I may agree.
Fourteenth: Agree. But didn't they say they disagree with wishful thinking in Eleventh?
Fifteenth: Agree

I guess I could go more detailed as to why, but this was more of an exercise for myself where I just allowed others to see the results.
the ironic thing is, PC_F is so clueless about humanism that he doesn't know that you can be a CHRISTIAN humanist
its sad that we get some document about an atheistic version, but christians would easily agree with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_humanism
funny that christians from the second century were humanists, yet we have some guy here spewing hate on them for being humanists.
 
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