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SelfSim

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If the "thing" in question is a computer or a dog, for instance, then yes, a thing can find a solution.
Word salad.
In both cases, you have not provided evidence of where the supposed 'problem' came from. Therefore, in both cases, there's plenty of doubt about the existence of any such 'problem' and thereby, doubt about the existence of 'solutions'.
 
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doubtingmerle

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God had something else planned:
Ah, so that prophecy (if the disciples did not speak out the rocks would) failed? And the fact that it failed doesn't matter?
 
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doubtingmerle

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I think you missed the point. There is no problem to be solved, except in the mind of the person posing the hypothetical you describe there, which in this case, is you.
Where there is no problem, there can be no solution.

I disagree. The mothers who were trying to give birth to babies with ever bigger heads had a big problem. It was not simply a hypothetical problem that, uh, when that baby starts coming out, the head might be a little too big.

If you disagree, trying giving birth to a baby with a big head. If you survive, come back and tell us whether you think that is a problem.
 
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doubtingmerle

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Word salad.
In both cases, you have not provided evidence of where the supposed 'problem' came from. Therefore, in both cases, there's plenty of doubt about the existence of any such 'problem' and thereby, doubt about the existence of 'solutions'.
Please tell the mothers that were trying to give birth to babies with large heads that their screams were word salad. Please tell those mothers that the agony of birth was only a supposed 'problem'. Please tell those dying mothers that were screaming in pain at childbirth that there is plenty of doubt about the existence of any such 'problem' as trying to survive while this huge head comes down the birth canal.
 
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SelfSim

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@doubtingmerle, out of respect, I've read back through the thread to @The IbanezerScrooge's comment about Anthropomorphic language in explanations of evolution and I agree with it. I just find the example of ever growing brain/cranial sizes and maternal deaths in childbirth, as being a way too superficial story-like example, which just keeps raising the question with me of: 'Why does it have to be that superficial?' Perhaps its just because you're targetting a specific audience that I just don't fit into(?)

The old view of the goal of Evolution being about species survival, IMO, as being .. well .. err .. out of date, so I find the explanation you've given, serving more to sustain that now superseded concept, that's all.

I'm happy to bow out of this sub-conversation now, having provided my feedback.
Cheers
PS: Apologies for the word-salad comment .. nothing personal if you actually intended simplicity, (conceptually speaking).
 
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driewerf

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It shows that we are not as far apart on things as most might think. But the natural conclusion of the discussion is a draw.
Your side has nothing. Can’t do anything than say “No, I don’t believe that”, but is after 150 yearsd even capable of learning what they rant against. Like the blind following the blind, creationist still follow the fools, like Kent Hovind, Ken Ham, Ray Comfort or the new star at the creationist firmament, Matt Powell.



(Painting of Breughel)
Incapable of learning anything, too stubborn to correct any mistake they lead their followers, the creationists into the ditches.

In the end one believes one thing while another believes something else.
False. creationists make up what erver they want. Science follows the evidence, wherever it goes. And is bound to what the evidence tells.

“Evolution” refers either to the process of evolution (what happens in nature) or the theory of evolution. None are a substance. The ignorance displayed is what happens when you listen too much to “professional creationists”, instead of scientists who do know what they are talking about.

And both don't work the same way. Science bases it's conclusions on evidence. Corrects mistakes if necessary and learns improves itself.
 
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Shemjaza

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So how can a thing "find a solution"?

By mindless physical processes.

It's common to use the language of agency when describing action by active natural processes.

"Water found a way into the basement."


I'm certain you've had this explained to you before.

When evolution is described in that way it's about the consequences of the process... not about decisions.

When a variation has a statistical advantage in survival it will become more common in the population over the generations. That is all the process of "finding a way" is, but it's easier to picture when you use language normally associated with short time periods and decisions.


Not in the least.

Evolution is an evidenced physical process that can be observed in real time.

Using the observed process it is possible to make models about long term effects and compare them to evidence on that scale... evolution is supported by this evidence from multiple disciplines of science.


You understand the concept and that is all evolution is... evolution is the emergent pattern of more successful variations becoming more common or even universal in the the population.


There being two common ideas isn't what leads to either being true. Ideas are just thoughts in people's heads and they can be lost.

The important thing is the reasons to accept any particular idea.

Evolution is a conclusion from evidence in the physical world. Creation is a point of religious conviction.
 
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doubtingmerle

I'll think about it.
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My pages Did We Evolve? - The Mind Set Free and Is There a God? - The Mind Set Free are not meant to be a detailed explanation of evolution. Other people have done a far better job of that. I link to some of those sites.

Rather, at my site, I am giving a simple summary of why I deconverted. So, I would rather refrain from detailed discussions of the mechanism of evolution.

That being said, I do want my words to be clear, and am more than willing to change the wording where it would be helpful. For instance, I plan to edit my discussion at my site on the origin of physical processes based on the feedback I got on this thread. So yes, I appreciate and consider the feedback.

And no, as of this time, I see no compelling need to change the words "evolution found a solution".
 
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Larniavc

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Larniavc

"Encourage him to keep talking. He's hilarious."
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No. You made that up. If you are unable to support what you are asserting you to withdraw your claim.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Then what's chemical evolution?

(They'll put that word in our mind somehow.)

Evolution is also a word that means change.

Words can have more than one meaning, surprise, surprise.
 
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AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
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Evolution is also a word that means change.

Words can have more than one meaning, surprise, surprise.
Then what's chemical evolution?

Please don't tell me abiogenesis is not a part of evolution, when I know better.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Then what's chemical evolution?

Please don't tell me abiogenesis is not a part of evolution, when I know better.

Not what you're trying to make it out to be, since, as I said before, evolution means change.

And no, you do not know better.
 
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Astrid

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It's far from that simple. There are fish that specifically
live in very fast water or waterfalls not by being strong but
by inging to the bottom.
The current in fast water is not uniformly fast. Eddie's, for
example. The inside on a bend. The bottom of the .channel.

Fast muscular fish don't stay out there fighting the current, though .they
are capae of doing so for a short time.
 
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renniks

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Nice fiction story, dude!
 
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eleos1954

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meaning it cannot accept supernatural explanations.

Yep .... so in lieu of that theories are put forth.
 
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