Did you read any of the articles? The sites I posted are footnoted with links, and some of the material has original documents posted.
Yes, I read every single one of them and rebutted nearly every point they made in the other thread.
I really don't want to go through it again. Yes, they have posted a copy of Dr. Trimm's degree... and ironically, they merely copied the .jpeg file from Trimm's site where he himself provides a copy of his own degree for all to see. There's nothing
proven, as in documents that denounce the St. John Chrysostom Theological Seminary as a legitimate school.
Not one shred of evidence. They make a lot of accusations, such as "The copy of the diploma James Trimm presents looks sloppily written"... or that "No one can get a masters and a doctorates in 3 and a half years" (I could list a dozen places where I could easily get a doctorates in 10 months)...but absolutely
no evidence.Not one document, not one witness, not one piece of evidence that says St. John Chrysostom Theological Seminary is a diploma mill. Just a lot of accusations, no evidence.
none.
I quess my question would be how many times have you posted the naz net link, or how many times have you quoted Mr Trimm as some kind of expert opinion.
1) This is an invalid argument. I've
MAYBE posted the netzarim link what... twice? You have done it an obnoxious number of times, to the point where numerous people have complained. That is an unfair comparison.
2) I have
NOT quoted him as an 'expert', but have... yes... at times presented some of his articles as food for thought. Yes, he has some fascinating things to say and let me make this abundantly clear:
I don't care who originally presented the ideas, James Trimm, Dr. Suess, The Tooth Fairy... the ideas are compelling and worth discussing.
3) James Trimm has yet to be disproven as an expert in semetic studies. As far as the evidence shows, he holds a doctorates in Semetic Studies.
I guess I could present the same argument. I noticed that you didn't comment on the other site. How much substantiation does a person need Simchat?
I'm not sure which site, nor do I care. I've read them all, and commented on what I feel was pertanent. I don't have an obligation to go through every single word and make a seperate thread debating every word, comment, or idea presented.
If the messianics want to criticize the Christians for their "golden calves", then it must get rid of it's as well.
I don't idolize Trimm. I don't adhere to his beit din. I don't attend one of his congregations. I have only quoted from his various articles a handlful of times on this site... what, maybe 5-6 times? out of how many threads have I started here, 60'ish? C'mon. He's no golden calf in my life. He could not even exist, and I'd still have to wonder about the Beit Din question. I could have never read his presentations on Aramaic originals, and yet still have found tons of (and have) evidence that comes to this conclusion.
Golden calf? Yes, everyone seems to be idolized in one fashion or another. Billy Grahm is idolized by some christians, but does that make him evil?
sorry, I just find it a bad analogy.
The church has it's problems, but so does the messianic movement.
Oh, I agree with you there.
but you seem to accept these websites you post as the golden truth. Nothing in them seems to go questioned by you! I should be turning the tables at this point and challenging you to take a hard honest look at what they present.
I did. When you first posted them, I was somewhat taken aback. I hadn't seen Trimm's degree, scholarship, etc questioned before and so I had to be honest with myself.... should I outright reject what he presents?
My conclusion was a resounding no. Nothing presented had any value.
But, I will agree with you, there are a lot of problems in MJ'ism... even with following Trimm himself. I don't agree at this point with making a seperate 'messianic' beit din, especially one that is unfounded and unproven in the messianic world as James Trimm. That, my friend, is why I don't blanketedly accept his Beit Din (among other reasons). I
don't reject him and his beit din on the grounds that these sites present.
It appears that you want a Hebrew/Aramaic NT so bad, that you will accept anything.
LOL... gimme a break. You yourelf have posted multiple times on these forums that you accept the fact that the NT was originally penned in Aramaic. I guess you aren't immune to the double standard, eh?
I think that Trimm's scholarship in this area has done a lot for our understanding, but anyone with a working knowledge of Aramaic would come to the same conclusions... we don't need Trimm himself necessarily. I don't just 'accept' anything.
Maybe I'm being prideful in saying this, but I believe that I have proven myself in a scholastic sense on this forum beyond reproof. Again, maybe I'm being puffed up in this area, but I firmly believe that I have shown where specifically I have done my OWN thinking and haven't just accepted someone's word for any matter simply on the basis of their 'say so'. I have proven time and time again that I have gone above and beyond the call of scholarship here.
I have had to do so on this very website because some of the ideas I have presented were of offensive value. I knew that I would be highly questioned in certain areas and I have presented much ground breaking academic work here. Things such as debating Yatziv, debating you on the history of the American Messianic movement (rather soundly I might add), questions on rabbinic tradition, or the pseudopigrapha to name a few.
Yes, I allow others to challenge me, but to claim that I accept something simply on the basis of 'so and so makes this claim' is ridiculous. I have overwhelmingly shown that I think for myself.
Or this note that was on the bottom of this page:
http://www.lebtahor.com/truth/trimm/jamestrimm.htm
"Since James has refused refunds to those requesting them, due to his misrepresentation of his abilities and his plagiarism, I have provided avenues for the victims to seek restitution. I suggest filing with both, since they are two different agencies.
Funny thing about that... not a single person has stepped forward to make charges of plagerism. Not one.
hmmm....
You are in luck Simchat. I just went to one of the sites and there is some new material posted:
Sorry, still the same sites. I've visited them in such depth and seen how lacking they are in scholastic research that I don't want to waste my time any further.
I would also advise you that others here don't want to continue wasting their time, that you are wasting precious webspace, and are being a general nuisance.
Take care,
Yafet.
