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How Wide the Divide?

MrJim

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I mused elsewhere that the divide in the US~red/blue, liberal/conservative is so vast that is may only be resolved through another civil war within the states. Each side is so resolutely sure they are correct and yet so opposite it seems, as it did it the mid 1800s, that there is no way to resolve.

I can see an outline; we're seeing things that 20 years ago would have been crazy to imagine happening in the US~is there resolution in the future beyond the shaky truce or is there violence ahead?

<<Please refrain from the "end of the world rapture coming soon" scenario-this isn't that sort of thread..>>
 

GreenMunchkin

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D'ya know, Jimminy, I really think that America has such a degree of patriotism (often veering into jingoism, even) that as soon as an "external" enemy is there, internal arguments are put to one side. The badness with Russia seems to be gathering momentum, and the potential problems with Iran and China are simmering away, and if anything kicks off America will become fairly united in standing up for itself, I think.

I sort of see it as 2 siblings, in a way. They'll bicker and fight, and it can get genuinely scrappy and nasty, but as soon as anyone else makes a move on one of them, they're united.
 
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Zecryphon

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Jim, I don't see this great divide that you do. I no longer see a difference between a Republican and a Democrat. The result of having either party in office is the same. George Bush has done the two things Republicans are adamantly opposed to better than any Democrat ever could, he's grown the size of the government making it way bigger than it should be, and he's run up a deficit that we may never ever get under control. Add to that the fact that the value of the U.S. dollar under his leadership is so devalued it might as well be worthless. People have this idea that no matter what our presidents and various governments do the U.S. will always survive. It's like we're invincible or something. We're not. A country as great as ours must be maintained by following the principles used to establish it in the first place. Once we toss those ideas out, we can fall like any other country in the world. I fear that's what must happen now for Americans to wake up and realize what they once had. I haven't been a Republican in eight years and I was never a Democrat. I'm a Reform party member now and I'm screwed in this election. Realistically we have two Democrats running.
 
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Polycarp_fan

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I mused elsewhere that the divide in the US~red/blue, liberal/conservative is so vast that is may only be resolved through another civil war within the states.

America is nothing even remotely special on the stage of history. Nukes and aircraft carriers are no different that legions of pitiless soldiers that can wipeout another civilization. The divide between liberal and conservative is as real as the seperation Jesus mentions between believers and non believers within ones own household. Whatever liberalism once was, it is nothing less than a detestable practice now.

Each side is so resolutely sure they are correct and yet so opposite it seems, as it did it the mid 1800s, that there is no way to resolve.

God is God. Gun ownership and abortion on demand will not alter God's will. There are people doing good and people doing evil. Marxism/socialism is evil (and has been proven so). Allowing people to do with their money what they so choose to do is closer to good than evil. The Church is a good example of that.

I can see an outline; we're seeing things that 20 years ago would have been crazy to imagine happening in the US~is there resolution in the future beyond the shaky truce or is there violence ahead?

Tax only Democrats. See what that will bring society. I agree with Zecryphon, both political parties are quite bad now, but i have far more trust in conservative values, than the reality of the left and their actual hedonism and lascivious licentiousness goals. Conservativism does not spread gang violence and STD's, while liberalism literally does.

<<Please refrain from the "end of the world rapture coming soon" scenario-this isn't that sort of thread..>>

Why would I do that? I do not subscibe to global warming.

But I will never entertain being yoked to 21st century leftist-liberal-progressive activism on anything ever again. It has shown itself to be nothing less than "secular" humanism and socialism through and through. Just read the Humanist Manifesto or Communist manifesto as a means to "test all things," political and social.

By their fruits you will know them. Words and deeds as well.
 
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Nadiine

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Jim, I don't see this great divide that you do. I no longer see a difference between a Republican and a Democrat. The result of having either party in office is the same. George Bush has done the two things Republicans are adamantly opposed to better than any Democrat ever could, he's grown the size of the government making it way bigger than it should be, and he's run up a deficit that we may never ever get under control. Add to that the fact that the value of the U.S. dollar under his leadership is so devalued it might as well be worthless. People have this idea that no matter what our presidents and various governments do the U.S. will always survive. It's like we're invincible or something. We're not. A country as great as ours must be maintained by following the principles used to establish it in the first place. Once we toss those ideas out, we can fall like any other country in the world. I fear that's what must happen now for Americans to wake up and realize what they once had. I haven't been a Republican in eight years and I was never a Democrat. I'm a Reform party member now and I'm screwed in this election. Realistically we have two Democrats running.
I'm a republican becuz I think IF we kept to the values and methods that first made America great, this country will continue to be great.
I feel this party best leads us to those values or principles - I believe liberalism (which is basically now what the democratic party has morphed into) takes us away from what made this country great, and as I see liberalism gain in strength, I see the country crumbling from within.
I see it most in our youth who seem to have lost their way.

Keeping in mind that we've been blessed by God and I believe that's due to acknowledging God in this country. But I see more and more rejecting God and even trying to get rid of God - liberalism often is the vehicle used to accomplish that removal.

That's basically how I view the parties (oversimplified as it is) & why I choose republican over dem. If I claimed to be independant that would be a lie becuz I won't vote for a party that panders to liberalism so much and for now, not enough people vote for independants esp. with the right values and I won't vote democrat.

Maybe I'm naive - but this is the way it works in my brain.

In the end, (sorry Jim to have to do this lol) God has an end time plan and I don't know how the USA fits into it - if we fall or if we're successful.

But I do agree with you Zech that this country can easily fail - our younger generations are in trouble in many ways; not only educationally, but morally and ethically.

Look how unpopular it is with liberals to join the military and go to war if need be... how many soldiers are going to serve the country when it gets even larger? Even some democrats have claimed that a draft may be necessary in the near future as it is.

Talk is that Obama wants to gut the military again like Clinton did... can we afford to that w/ world conflicts & nuclear weapons in the wrong hands? etc.

I do worry that this country is set up for a serious fall - from within.
 
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MrJim

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Jim, I don't see this great divide that you do.

Perhaps we don't run in the same circles~my work takes me into both extremes of DC/Baltimore metropolitan areas; the very rich and the very poor. It also takes me into some of the most remote mountain areas of West Virginia and Pennsylvania. The sheer sense of angst and anger found on both sides of the spectrum have measurable depth with an undertone of desperation.
 
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Nadiine

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Perhaps we don't run in the same circles~my work takes me into both extremes of DC/Baltimore metropolitan areas; the very rich and the very poor. It also takes me into some of the most remote mountain areas of West Virginia and Pennsylvania. The sheer sense of angst and anger found on both sides of the spectrum have measurable depth with an undertone of desperation.
Did you watch Glen Beck yesterday? He had Ted Nugent on promoting his new book to come out in Oct., Ted White & Blue and Ted gets around to alot of places.
He said the frustration levels are super high right now and that it's almost to the point of spilling over into hostility for republicans. I already reached that point, others are probly more patient than I am. heh :holy:
 
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Nadiine

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Nugent ~ there's a piece of work ;) when I was plugged in I would catch his hunting show on occasion; surely we could find a cabinet level position for him :D
He'd whoop this nation right into shape if somebody gave him the opportunity.

I think the best things about Nugent are a few of his tunes (Stranglehold, Little Miss Dangerous, Free for All), his ideology & strength.

THEEE worst thing about him is his hunting becuz I'm 100% animal rights. So that's where I clash with him in a huge way. I understand it, I just HATE it with a passion.

You might get a pleasant surprise one day soon tho, on the interview he said yes he was seriously considering running for Gov. of Michigan!!
But still wants his wife's blessing on it before he'd do it. That was kool.
but it would be a great day for Mich. (where I'm from originally).
:thumbsup:

Calif. needs help
 
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Nadiine

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Plus I NEVER ever hear anything about Leaders in the Independant party... have they No Cojones??:scratch: :doh:


:D
the problem is that they don't get out there & do interviews w/ news agencies like CNN or FOX or anything.

They seem to just sit in their house & wait for votes or something...
don't they circulate?? It's kinda wierd.
 
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Nadiine

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I am a registered Independant, but I think I may switch to the Elephant because I don't seem to be getting any love from the AIP, plus they seem very Lukewarm, and Jesus hates Lukewarm.
ya, come over the dark side Luke.

=)~
 
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GQ Chris

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ya, come over the dark side Luke.

=)~

GLADLY, lol.

Now I get to be lambasted more by libs for pandering to the Rich, Warmonging Oppressors haha. I do not care though.

Here in the bay area people seem to have this attitude that just because someone is a minority, that they should support Obama and the Democratic party.. well I don't believe that. I too believe that the majority of the God hating folks who want to be totally independant of God are on the Liberal side.
 
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GQ Chris

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the problem is that they don't get out there & do interviews w/ news agencies like CNN or FOX or anything.

They seem to just sit in their house & wait for votes or something...
don't they circulate?? It's kinda wierd.


Yeah, it is Lame. No wonder I never heard of the Independent candidate running for Pres., I know pretty much nothing about him. He's a Black guy I know that much, but obviously not as popular as Obama.
 
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Nadiine

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Yeah, it is Lame. No wonder I never heard of the Independent candidate running for Pres., I know pretty much nothing about him. He's a Black guy I know that much, but obviously not as popular as Obama.
That's the typical answer you get "who's Ron Paul?" "who's that?" LOL


I mean, they can't even get out there & promote themselves & do the work... the poor people are burdened with explaining who the heck he is & doing his work for him.
I'm about sure if they called up Fox or CNN & said "I'm running for the Indep. party and would like to grab some time on your show to float my policies in an interview", they'de do it.
That's news & I'd think they'de jump at the chance.

:confused:
 
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GQ Chris

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Well Michael Savage is an Independent too... but I don't know what to feel about this guy.. I like the fact that he really dislikes Liberalism though which is a huge plus, but at the same time, you don't hear him talk about God much..
 
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Atlantians

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I hate liberalism and I despise the Democratic party...

But more than that,k I love truth.

So I hate falsehoods.

The Republicans have on a few occasions misrepresented and presented in a dishonest fashion things Obama said, totally out of the context they were intended within.

However, the Democrats have far far surpassed the Republicans on this front.
Being utterly dishonest, unfair, and hypocritical on every level.

I am an independent hyper-Conservative.


If Republicans are right, and Dems are left, I am North east.
 
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