How were you taught Evolution?

Atheos canadensis · Jul 2, 2014

justlookinla said:
Do you understand that Christian schools, by their very nature, do not teach that mankind was created solely by naturalistic processes acting on a single life form from long long ago. Are you aware that Christian schools teach this concerning the creation of humanity....

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

How can you suggest that Christian schools teach the same creationist viewpoint as public schools?

Of course there is. There is two basic creationist viewpoints, some variations, but basically two....

1) Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

2) Darwinism is a theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations.

The starting point is determining who/what created humanity. Then go from there.

No, there are basically two different worldviews of creation taught in public and Christian schools. As noted above.

What other creationist view of how humanity was created is taught in public schools other than the view that humanity is the result of solely, completely, totally naturalistic mechanisms acting on a single life form from long long ago. The truth is, and you're aware of this I'm sure, none. No other view. That's it. Kiddos, you're without a doubt, without question, the result of solely, only, completely naturalistic mechanisms acting on a single life form from long long ago. Atheistic creationist worldview of humanity, in other words.

Christians do not accept the creationist view that humanity is the result of solely, completely, totally naturalistic mechanisms acting on a single life form from long long ago. That view would be contrary to the very basic view in Christianity that humanity is a direct creation of God

You got that definition of Darwinism from wikipedia. It is a simple description of evolutionary theory that takes no metaphysical position; it merely states the mechanisms of which we are scientifically aware. Christians here have stated that the posted definition of Darwinsim is what they were taught in Christian schools. Now as you have correctly stated, Christian schools aren't teaching atheistic creationism, therefore the definition of evolution you provided must not be atheistic creationism. So given the fact that we have learned from both students and teachers that the same definition is being provided in both Christian and secular schools, the latter cannot logically be teaching atheistic creationism.

justlookinla · Jul 2, 2014

PsychoSarah said:
Ah, but does it phase you in the slightest to think of all the poor people who never rest in piece because they aren't buried with money to pay the toll for the afterlife?

This is sarcasm, but you've failed to make your point.

PsychoSarah · Jul 2, 2014

justlookinla said:
This is sarcasm, but you've failed to make your point.

I wasn't being sarcastic, that is an ancient belief. You see, you don't care because you don't think it is true, so why on earth would you expect me, an atheist, to be concerned about people going to hell, when I don't think it actually happens?

justlookinla · Jul 2, 2014

Atheos canadensis said:
You got that definition of Darwinism from wikipedia. It is a simple description of evolutionary theory that takes no metaphysical position; it merely states the mechanisms of which we are scientifically aware.

Yes, it's a very basic definition of inherently atheistic creationism.

Christians here have stated that the posted definition of Darwinsim is what they were taught in Christian schools.

No, Christians schools do not teach that all of life, including humanity, was created solely, completely, totally by "natural selection of small, inherited variations'. You may respond with an evasive 'those words aren't there'....that happens frequently, but the fact is that Darwinist worldview is inherently atheistic. It teaches, like it or not, that all of life, including humanity, has as it's creator only, solely, totally, completely naturalistic processes.

Now as you have correctly stated, Christian schools aren't teaching atheistic creationism, therefore the definition of evolution you provided must not be atheistic creationism.

The creationist viewpoint which claims that humanity was created only, totally, completely, solely by naturalistic mechanisms acting on a single life form from long long ago is an atheistic creationist viewpoint. You're not addressing that.

So given the fact that we have learned from both students and teachers that the same definition is being provided in both Christian and secular schools, the latter cannot logically be teaching atheistic creationism.

No, if a viewpoint is presented which effectively eliminates God in the creation process and replaces the creative power with something Godless, it's an atheistic creationist viewpoint.

justlookinla · Jul 2, 2014

PsychoSarah said:
I wasn't being sarcastic, that is an ancient belief. You see, you don't care because you don't think it is true, so why on earth would you expect me, an atheist, to be concerned about people going to hell, when I don't think it actually happens?

I don't expect you to be concerned.

PsychoSarah · Jul 2, 2014

justlookinla said:
I don't expect you to be concerned.

And would it be reasonable for me to expect you to believe that bodies have to be buried with money otherwise they can't rest in peace just because I can show you an ancient text filled with miracles and gods which says so (btw, the ancient text does exist, so I could show it to you if you wanted). Or would you need more than that?

justlookinla · Jul 2, 2014

PsychoSarah said:
And would it be reasonable for me to expect you to believe that bodies have to be buried with money otherwise they can't rest in peace just because I can show you an ancient text filled with miracles and gods which says so (btw, the ancient text does exist, so I could show it to you if you wanted). Or would you need more than that?

I'd need something to negate the experiences I've had with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The insignificant, and spiritually ignorant, ramblings of atheists and unbelievers would have absolutely no effect on my relationship with God, through His Son, Jesus Christ.

Whatcha got? Do you believe it to be the truth?

PsychoSarah · Jul 2, 2014

justlookinla said:
I'd need something to negate the experiences I've had with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The insignificant, and spiritually ignorant, ramblings of atheists and unbelievers would have absolutely no effect on my relationship with God, through His Son, Jesus Christ.

Whatcha got? Do you believe it to be the truth?

You know I don't believe for a second that what we are buried with, or even that we are buried at all, has an impact to us once we are dead.

Likewise, I would need something to negate my experiences of a world in which gods and miracles are apparently absent beyond just dreams and imagination.

Atheos canadensis · Jul 2, 2014

justlookinla said:
Yes, it's a very basic definition of inherently atheistic creationism.

No, Christians schools do not teach that all of life, including humanity, was created solely, completely, totally by "natural selection of small, inherited variations'. You may respond with an evasive 'those words aren't there'....that happens frequently, but the fact is that Darwinist worldview is inherently atheistic. It teaches, like it or not, that all of life, including humanity, has as it's creator only, solely, totally, completely naturalistic processes.

The creationist viewpoint which claims that humanity was created only, totally, completely, solely by naturalistic mechanisms acting on a single life form from long long ago is an atheistic creationist viewpoint. You're not addressing that.

No, if a viewpoint is presented which effectively eliminates God in the creation process and replaces the creative power with something Godless, it's an atheistic creationist viewpoint.

Simply denying it isn't a real argument. Several people here have told you that the definition you provided is taught in Christian schools. The only way to dispute this is to straight up say they are lying when they say this definition of evolution is taught in Christian schools. Do you dispute that the definition you provided is being taught in Christian schools?

justlookinla · Jul 2, 2014

PsychoSarah said:
You know I don't believe for a second that what we are buried with, or even that we are buried at all, has an impact to us once we are dead.

Likewise, I would need something to negate my experiences of a world in which gods and miracles are apparently absent beyond just dreams and imagination.

Well....your world. That's not the experience of my world.

justlookinla · Jul 2, 2014

Atheos canadensis said:
Simply denying it isn't a real argument. Several people here have told you that the definition you provided is taught in Christian schools. The only way to dispute this is to straight up say they are lying when they say this definition of evolution is taught in Christian schools. Do you dispute that the definition you provided is being taught in Christian schools?

I'm simply presenting the creationist viewpoint taught in Christian schools. If you have evidence that Godless creationism is being taught in Christian schools, please present it. I don't think you can though.

Certainly nobody here has posted such a view.

PsychoSarah · Jul 3, 2014

justlookinla said:
Well....your world. That's not the experience of my world.

And would you view that as fair? Would you honestly think that someone who had never experienced any miracles, seen many faked, no signs of gods, should just be able to force themselves to believe in deities anyways?

justlookinla · Jul 3, 2014

PsychoSarah said:
And would you view that as fair? Would you honestly think that someone who had never experienced any miracles, seen many faked, no signs of gods, should just be able to force themselves to believe in deities anyways?

I take exception with the word "force". It's not about one forcing oneself to do anything, it's about choice. Do we choose to believe or not is the issue, IMO.

When I made my commitment to Christ many years ago, not just a Sunday School, I believe in Jesus commitment, but one where I gave my whole being up to Christ and began trusting Him completely, this is when I began to experience the supernatural in my life. I've personally heard the same testimony from I guess thousands of people who have made Jesus Christ Lord of their lives and it changed them and situations.

So, it's simply choosing to either turn to Christ or not turn to Christ. The choice is yours.

PsychoSarah · Jul 3, 2014

justlookinla said:
I take exception with the word "force". It's not about one forcing oneself to do anything, it's about choice. Do we choose to believe or not is the issue, IMO.

When I made my commitment to Christ many years ago, not just a Sunday School, I believe in Jesus commitment, but one where I gave my whole being up to Christ and began trusting Him completely, this is when I began to experience the supernatural in my life. I've personally heard the same testimony from I guess thousands of people who have made Jesus Christ Lord of their lives and it changed them and situations.

So, it's simply choosing to either turn to Christ or not turn to Christ. The choice is yours.

Choose to believe the sky is green. Choose to believe things you think aren't true.

justlookinla · Jul 3, 2014

PsychoSarah said:
Choose to believe the sky is green. Choose to believe things you think aren't true.

You can't choose to believe things you think aren't true, I agree. So, you choose to reject Christ.

PsychoSarah · Jul 3, 2014

justlookinla said:
You can't choose to believe things you think aren't true, I agree. So, you choose to reject Christ.

No. I couldn't choose to believe this stuff despite wanting to. Just like you can't make yourself believe the sky is green, you couldn't choose to believe that, even if your very soul was potentially at stake.

quatona · Jul 3, 2014

justlookinla said:
I understand the distinction between the statement that humanity is solely the creation of naturalistic mechanisms and the statement that humanity is the creation of solely naturalistic mechanisms, if that's what you're asking.

No, that´s not I am asking.
Let´s take it slow so I´m sure I am not losing you, or at least notice at which exact point I am losing you.

The question was:
do you understand the difference between these two statements:

A gynecologist solely treats women.
and
A gynecologist claims that there are solely women/that solely women need medical treatment.
?

I´m not asking which statement is correct or incorrect, but what the difference in their meanings is.

Armoured · Jul 3, 2014

Atheos canadensis said:
Can this problem be circumvented by pasting information instead of providing bare links? Or does he refuse to read anything pasted?

Apparently. I tried both repeatedly before accepting he's simply not interested in anything that contradicts his preconceptions.

DerelictJunction · Jul 3, 2014

justlookinla said:
You can't choose to believe things you think aren't true, I agree.

So, if you cannot choose to believe something you think is not true, how does an atheist get over the hurdle and believe that Christ is the Son of God? It seems that they need something (evidence) to show that Christ exists and can save them.
After they believe, then they can choose to follow.

So, you choose to reject Christ.

This statement makes no sense in light of your first comment that people cannot choose to believe something that they think is not true. I don't reject Christ. I simply don't believe He is the Son of God, nor that He died to wash away my "sins". I cannot reject something I don't believe in. I cannot reject the singing of Sirens if I don't believe they exist or have a song.

Atheos canadensis · Jul 3, 2014

justlookinla said:
I'm simply presenting the creationist viewpoint taught in Christian schools. If you have evidence that Godless creationism is being taught in Christian schools, please present it. I don't think you can though.

Certainly nobody here has posted such a view.

Direct answer please. Are you disputing that the definition of Darwinism you pasted from wikipedia is taught in Christian schools? Yes or no?

If the answer is yes, you are unequivocally calling the various Christina-educated posters liars and should at least provide some evidence. If no, then your position is refuted by the following:

1.We know from various people here that Christian schools are teaching the posted definition of Darwinism.
2.Christian schools are obviously not teaching atheistic creationism
3.Therefore, the posted definition of Darwinism is not atheistic creationism.

How were you taught Evolution?

How were you taught evolution?

With an explicit denial of God's involvement

With an explicit affirmation of God's involvement

Without either an affirmation or denial of God's involvement

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"God"? What do you mean??

So is America great again yet?

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