How was Jesus baptized?

[TheScottsMen]

I thought of making my case in the fundie forum, but it will fit much better here. Was Jesus baptized by immerision or by sprinkling?

 

[TheScottsMen]

My take.

Why was Jesus baptized? In Luke 3:21-22 we read that Jesus was baptized with water. This of course, was not for the of sins, as John was preaching, for we read in the first portion of II Corinthians 5:21, "Him who knew no sin." Jesus was God in the flesh who never sinned. He needed neither to repent (turn) from sin, nor to be forgiven of any sin. Was it done to be identified with mankind? Pastor Tidd has a good response to this,

wasn't that accomplished in Bethlehem? We read in Luke 2:41-52 that Jesus at age 12, under the Law of the Passover Feast, was at Jerusalem in His Father's House, listening and talking to the teachers. Wouldn't Jesus have had enough understanding at 12 years old to have been baptized, if baptism was for a public testimony of His faith? But Jesus Himself gave the reason He was being baptized in Matthew 3:15, when He told John the Baptist to "...Permit it to be so now for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." So, in accordance with the Law dispensed to Moses, Jesus was thirty years old at the time He was baptized, as we read in Luke 3:23 "...And when He began His ministry Jesus Himself was about 30 years of age." (Perhaps those who insist we should "follow Jesus in Baptism" should also require the person to be 30 years old today).

At Jesus baptism, we see Him coming as the High priest of Israel which was to be a nation of priest.

"And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel" (Ex. 19:6).

"But you shall be named the priests of the LORD, They shall call you the servants of our God. You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory you shall boast" (Isa. 61:6).

Peter speaking to the dispersion, "But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people...having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles..." (I Pet. 2:9,12)."

When priests were ordained, the Law prescribed certain rituals to be followed, including washing them with water (Ex. 29:4). That ceremonial washing was performed at Jesus' baptism.

So the question now becomes, how was the washing of water? Was it by immersion? Sense the baptism is the baptism of the Jewish nation to become priest, lets look at OT use of water and baptism.

Hebrews 9:10 refers to the frequent Old Covenant use of water when it says, "They [the ceremonial laws of the Old Covenant] were only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings--external regulations applying until the time of the new order."

So what of this word, "washings" ? The original word is "baptismois," i.e. "baptisms." The writer of Hebrews, to put it simply, refers to "various baptisms" which were practiced under the Old Covenant.

One can find all types of baptism throughout the OT.

Sprinkling:

When a person came in contact with a dead body or the carcass of an animal they were considered "unclean." The procedure for reentering the camp included being sprinkled with water mixed with the ashes of a heifer (Numbers 19:13,17-21).​

When a person was cleansed from their leprosy the procedure involved sprinkling and two bathings. See Leviticus 14:6-9 for the full description.​

Levites under the Old Covenant were set aside for their work by a special ceremony that involved water. The Levites were the helpers of the priests (priests were all descended from Aaron). The Levite ordination is described in Numbers 8:5-15. The cleansing procedure mentioned here is by sprinkling with water (v.7).​

​

Others by washing or bathing​

Other Old Testament laws included commands to "wash" or to "bathe with water" for certain acts of uncleanness. "Wash" and "bathe" commands can be found in Exodus 30:17-21; Exodus 40:30-32; Leviticus 8:6; Leviticus 14:8-9; Leviticus 15:1-27; Leviticus 16:4,24,26,28; Leviticus 17:15-16; Leviticus 22:6; Numbers 19:7-8,19; Deuteronomy 21:6; Deuteronomy 23:9-11.

But before I get to much in this post, what about Jesus baptism? As stated before, Johns baptism was for sinners (Matthew 3:1,6). Christ was not a sinner. John's baptism represented repentance for the forgiveness of sin (Matthew 3:11; Like 3:3). Jesus Christ could neither repent nor receive forgiveness of sins. This baptism of John was to prepare the way for the Lord by preparing a people ready for the Lord (Luke 1:17). Jesus did not need preparation for receiving Himself.

So again, why was He being baptized?

"Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." (Mathew 3:15)

Deuteronomy 6:25 tells us that "righteousness" involves obedience to the law. Christ was "made under the law (Galatians 4:4)." What Jesus is saying, then, is the He was submitting to baptism in order to obey the Old Testament law. But how?
​

Christ underwent the law of circumcision (Leviticus 12:3 and Luke 2:21). He was presented in the temple as the law commanded (Leviticus 12:2-8 and Luke 2:22-23). He went to the Passover (Exodus 34:23 and Luke 2:41-42). He observed the Jewish feasts commanded by the law (Mark 14:12, Luke 22:3, John 17:100). But what law was Jesus obeying at His baptism?​

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Next post​

 

[TheScottsMen]

The law of teh OT that Jesus was obeying concerns the ordination of a priest. The procedure commanded by God is found in Exodus 29:1-9.

Exodus 29:4: "Bring Aaron and his sons to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting and wash them with water." Jesus Christ was (and is) a priest (Hebrews 3:1; 4:14, 5:5; 9:11); He is the High Priest forever. Christ's baptism was the ceremonial act of His ordination to the high priesthood. This was the rite that set Him apart as a priest and a minister of holy things.

But there are THREE requireuments of becoming a priest.

1. He must be 30 years of age (Numbers 4:3,47)
2. He must be called of God as was Aaron, the first high priest (Exodus 28:1)
3. He must be washed with water (Exodus 29:4; Leviticus 8:6) - NOTE: By one already a priest. John was a priest, inheriting the office from his father (Exodus 29:9; Numbers 25:13; Luke 1:4,13).

The Tabernacle basin used for the procedure of "washing" was not made for immersing the entire body. (Exodus 30:17-21)

"Then Moses brought Aaron and his sons forward and washed them with water" (Leviticus 8:6). The "washing" of the priests for ordination was apparently done by taking water from the basin and then pouring it over the body of the priest.
I cannot find where Aaron took of his clothes and jumped in in the basin

But what about

"At Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water" (John 3:23)

Lets focus on Aenon for a sec. Aenon comes from the Aramaic word which means "springs" or "fountains." Aenon is probably to be identified with a place about eight miles south of Scythopolis, west of the Jordan.

"these springs trickling through marshy meadow land on their way to the Jordan, offer little or no facilities for immersion" (Christy, A Modern Shibboleth, p. 82)

 

[TheScottsMen]

But what about... Mark 1:10 "As Jesus was coming up out of the water, He saw heaven being torn open..." and Matthew 3:16, "As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water."

Does these veses say that Jesus was immersed? Try to move the immersionist view for a sec and just read it as a simple sentence. Does the above verses say that was immersed or only that He stood in the water, was baptized, and then walked out of the water? Put another way, does the phrase "went up out of the water" describe the action of baptism or does it describe an action following baptism?

 

[TheScottsMen]

Thats enough for now. TSM waits for all the dispensational Baptist to jump him

 

[Terral]

Hi ScottsMen:

ScottsMen >> Was Jesus baptized by immersion or by sprinkling?

The baptism that Jesus sought from John was neither. However, He was baptized by John by immersion in the Jordan River in the likeness of everyone else. I believe that He was indeed immersed, because of the use of the term baptizo. That is a word used by the Greeks to describe the way in which clothed are dyed various colors by being ‘dipped.’ John could have sprinkled water on folks at a fountain or out of a barrel or by some other method. Instead, people came to him at the Jordan River.

People like to associate Christ’s baptism at thirty years of age with the Levitical priesthood. While that concept is definitely within Mosaic tradition for priests, Christ was in no way being prepared for the Jewish priesthood. Any ministry associated with that kind of office would take place in and near the Temple, and by a recognized member of the priesthood. Christ would have also gone through a series of purifications and other preparations in becoming ready to assume the position of one who intercedes for the people of Israel from the altar. One does not simply head down to the river to meet this guy in animal skins and expect to be ready to enter the Levitical priesthood.

From quote >> Wasn't that accomplished in Bethlehem? We read in Luke 2:41-52 that Jesus at age 12, under the Law of the Passover Feast, was at Jerusalem in His Father's House, listening and talking to the teachers. Wouldn't Jesus have had enough understanding at 12 years old to have been baptized, if baptism was for a public testimony of His faith?

Our Bible does not teach a water baptism for a public sign of a believer’s faith anywhere. John’s baptism for repentance was given by God specifically for the ‘forgiveness of sins.’ Mark 1:4, Acts 2:38. That was the first baptism of the Kingdom from the Father (John 1:6, 33). John the Baptist, Christ and the Twelve all carried the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ to Israel ONLY. (Matt. 4:23, 10:5-7, 15:24). One became a ‘disciple’ (Acts 19:1) of the kingdom through “John’s baptism” (Acts 19:3), without the other baptisms. The second baptism of the Kingdom was in the ‘name of the Son’ (Matt. 28:19) demonstrated in Acts 19:5. (Acts 8:16, 10:48). The third and final baptism of the kingdom occurred when a kingdom disciple with the Holy Spirit came and laid hands upon the new convert. Acts 8:17, 19:6.

ScottsMen >> Why was Jesus baptized?

Jesus Christ appeared to John at the Jordan to fulfill all righteousness in receiving the Spirit that John had carried with him since being in the womb (Luke 1:15). Note what John said after the passing of the Spirit to Christ.

"He must increase, but I must decrease.” John 3:30.

That was the same Spirit that left the Holy of Holies with his father Zacharias, and made him dumb for his unbelief. Luke 1:22. This is the same Spirit Who embodied Himself as the person of ‘Melchizedek king of Salem’ (Gen. 14:18) and appeared to Abraham. He is the Spirit of the Covenant of God Who dwelt among Israel in the Tabernacle of Moses and Solomon’s Temple. We all know Him today as the Holy Spirit who Christ sent back (Helper: John 16:7) from the heavenly after His ascension (Acts 1:2). Acts 2:1. He is the same ‘one Spirit’ (Eph. 4:4) who baptizes us into the body (1Cor. 12:13) of Christ (1Cor. 12:27) today. Eph. 4:12. The members of the body of Christ have Him in their own bodies today (1Cor. 6:19). When we are delivered up to Christ (1Thes. 4:17; antitype of Acts 1:2) then this same Spirit will return to earth and begin fashioning the members of the bride through Elijah (Matt. 11:17) in the coming Messianic Kingdom of Israel here on earth. The members of His ‘elect’ bride will be gathered to the Lord at the end of the age (Matt. 24:3) according to Christ’s words in Matt. 24:31.

By contrast to these three kingdom baptisms, the members of the body of Christ today have only ‘one baptism’ (Eph. 4:5) and we receive the Spirit of God by hearing with faith (Gal. 3:2). We are ‘sealed in Him’ (Christ) the moment we hear and believe the gospel. Eph. 1:13+14.


God bless,


Terral

 

[In Christ Forever]

Is there any way the baptism could in a resemble that of the original Elijah and Elisha at the Jordan River?. I don't know what the "all righteouness would relate to this though. {2kings 2}
When the the older Elijah called Elisha to his work he covered the younger man's shoulders with his mantle. Later, when his own public ministry began, Elisha took up this same mantle, picking it up from where it had slid from the old prophet's back when he was taken away in a whirlwind.
Both symbols appear signify the fact that a transition took place. And both appear to symbolize the reception of the Spirit of Truth (Jesus actually termed this spiritual occurrence a "baptism"). Elijah's followers who observed the activities immediately after Elisha took up Elijah's mantle remarked then that "the spirit of Elijah doth rest upon Elisha".

 

[Terral]

Hi InChristForever:

Is there any way the baptism could in a resemble that of the original Elijah and Elisha at the Jordan River?. I don't know what the "all righteousness would relate to this though. {2kings 2}

The source of the power and spirit of Elijah is the same Holy Spirit from the Temple. The ‘righteousness’ aspect does not appear to have application. Although, God imputes His righteousness (Rom. 4:4-6) upon the believer today at the same instant that he receives the same Spirit by hearing with faith (Gal. 3:2). For me, Christ is referring to the passing of the Holy Spirit from John to Himself. The reason I feel that Christ is referring to the ‘passing of the Spirit,’ is because both Christ and John are included in the language:

“ . . . Permit it now, thus ~ for fitting it is for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Matt. 3:15a.

A deeper understanding is gained by looking at these events from the perspective of the three witnesses:

“This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are into the one.” 1John 5:6-8.

Christ had yet to enter into the blood aspect of His ministry. That would begin on the cross, and in the raising up of the Apostle Paul (Acts 9:15). What we are examining here is the witness of water and blood (Christ) with the witness of Spirit (John the Baptist). After all, Scripture itself testifies that Christ came in water and blood. The Spirit is then listed as the first witness. John the Baptist is the forerunner who came in the spirit and power of Elijah, as one to prepare the way. Luke 1:17. Therefore, when Christ received the Spirit from Elijah (John the Baptist), then He effectually became the embodiment of all three witnesses into the One. 1John 5:8. That is the mother of all types for the restoration of all things.

John the Baptist had been reduced to the position of a mere baton carrier in this ‘gospel of the kingdom’ race. However, from Christ’s perspective, this marked the precise moment that all three witnesses were together within one tabernacle. And that is what made Jesus of Nazareth become the ‘image of the invisible God.’ Col. 1:15. Three into the One is a phrase that describes the singularity expression represented by spirit/soul/body as one thing. Our vocabulary does not include a word to describe such an individual, but that is the image of God Almighty from beyond the veil of time and space. Christ would retain the Holy Spirit from the Temple, until after He ascended into the heavenly. Acts 1:2. Only then could He relinquish the Holy Spirit, so that He could return and begin offering the Kingdom to Israel at Pentecost. Acts 2:1. That is why Christ said that it was a good thing for Him to go away. John 16:7.

"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.” John 16:7.

There appears, however, to be something else occurring here in the Jordan between John and Christ. If you have read my Mystery post ( http://www.christian-forums.com/t879067 ), then some of this will make sense: Draw your two circles (that over lap and create three equal sections) on your blank sheet of paper. Then draw a line horizontally which divides the diagram into equal parts; above and below. In the upper spirit semicircle write Father/Spirit. In the middle blood section write Christ/Blood, and in the right hand semicircle write Holy Spirit/Water. Then, in the lower half of the diagram write Elijah in the spirit part, Christ again in the blood section, and in the remaining water section write Moses. Those are your three witnesses of the Mount of Transfiguration. Moses did not offer the kingdom to Israel, because of what he did here (Num. 20:11+12). That is why Christ came in water and in blood. 1John 5:6.

The thing to note about our diagram is that Elijah and the Holy Spirit are on opposite sides of the equation. What we have is the witness of Spirit baptizing in Water. That represents a type of the Heavens and the Earth as One singularity vehicle of expression. The joining of spirit and water is representative of the fulfillment of prophecy. That is what will occur when Elijah does indeed come again to restore all things. Matt. 17:11. The blood/soul aspect is the result of the joining of those two witnesses into the one. That is the part that remained a mystery (Eph. 3:1-11) to everyone, until after the crucifixion. The important thing to note is that for the earthly fulfillment aspect of this diagram, there is also a heavenly one that shall align itself and begin to merge at the same instant in time and space. The kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of heaven and New Jerusalem shall commence at the same time, but in different realms.


All of that was said, so you could build the mental image for this: When Christ came and received the Spirit from John the Baptist, and they together fulfilled all righteousness, then that moment marked the beginning of the end for the kingdom of Israel to be restored here on earth. Christ had appropriated the Spirit of God for a higher purpose of God that would supersede the fulfillment of Prophecy (spirit/water merge; clothing of OT prophecy pertaining to Israel). I believe that to be what the ‘fulfill all righteousness’ language is all about in Matt. 3:15. Without Satan and the evil rulers of this darkness knowing it, Christ’s feet were on the path of redemption for the entire universe at Calvary. Elijah is still waiting for the baton of the Spirit to be passed back to him once more. Christ gives many clues to his true identity, if you can figure them out. When you do, then you will know, why he said, what he said here. John 1:21.

InChristForever >> When the older Elijah called Elisha to his work he covered the younger man's shoulders with his mantle. Later, when his own public ministry began, Elisha took up this same mantle, picking it up from where it had slid from the old prophet's back when he was taken away in a whirlwind. Both symbols appear signify the fact that a transition took place. And both appear to symbolize the reception of the Spirit of Truth (Jesus actually termed this spiritual occurrence a "baptism"). Elijah's followers who observed the activities immediately after Elisha took up Elijah's mantle remarked then that "the spirit of Elijah doth rest upon Elisha".

The types in the actions of Elijah and Elisha show that the Spirit of Elijah was passed like a baton from one to the other. 2Kings 2:12-14. The ‘power’ is not in the vessel that carries the Spirit, but in the Spirit of God Himself. We also see the same crossing over of Spirit and water in the three witness type. Elijah and Elisha used the Spirit to divide the water and cross over on dry land. Our witnesses in the diagrams are crossing over to join in the blood section, until the three are into the One. To me it appears as almost a process of greeting or handshaking between the two outside (spirit/water) witnesses. (There is still much light to be given in this area.)

Elijah is the man of Prophecy still expected to this day to come and restore all things. Seeing John the Baptist standing in the Jordan River must have been a sight for the eyes of our Lord and Savior. The next time Elijah stands there in the Jordan, and baptizes all the people, it will then be time for him to once again strike the bank of the river with his mantle. Then all Israel will walk across into their Promised Land, and anyone to stand in their way shall surely be turned into dust.

In Christ,

Terral

 

[@@Paul@@]

Christ's baptism following "Law" would not have been Levitical would it?

He was from the Tribe of Judah > Not Levi < and after the order of Melchizedek.

Psa 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.​

The entire NATION was being "prepared" for the priesthood in preparation for the coming kingdom.

Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.​

Is this what your saying TSM?

Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.​

I better go take a bath!!

 

[Archangel]

Does the word baptisim not mean to be put under water?

 

[TheScottsMen]

Something funny here. I posted a response a couple days ago to Terral but I can't find it????

 

[Terral]

Hi Paul:

ScottsMen >> Something funny here. I posted a response a couple days ago to Terral but I can't find it????

A few days ago when the site crashed, some of the messages were lost from this section. It looks like he restored from a backup, so there was a gap. Please send your message again.

Paul >> Christ's baptism following "Law" would not have been Levitical would it? He was from the Tribe of Judah > Not Levi < and after the order of Melchizedek.

Paul’s quote >> Psa 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

A member of any tribe could become a priest. Paul was a Pharisee from the tribe of Benjamin. Phil. 3:5. Only a Levite could become high priest over the nation of Israel. The Levite had a priesthood ministry by perpetual statute. Exodus 29:9. Recognize the ‘order of Melchizedek’ as being one who had the Spirit of the Holy of Holies. The Holy Spirit incarnated like Christ, and presented Himself to Abraham. Gen. 14:18. The order of Melchizedek runs parallel with the order of Aaron; one Heavenly, and one earthly. However, they meet in the Tabernacle / Temple on one day every year on the Day of Atonement. That is when the earthly makes the walk from the laver of water (water) to the altar (Holy Place with blood) and through the veil into the Holy of Holies (domain of Spirit). That was the ‘earthly’ (Heb. 9:1-3) expression God gave men as the pattern of what Christ would do as High Priest in the heavenly above:

"Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.” Heb. 9:23+24.

The veils are set up as earthly representations of boundaries that divide heavenly realms. The priest can enter through the first veil to intercede for the people, and this is most common.

“Now when these things have been so prepared, the priests are continually entering the outer tabernacle performing the divine worship.” Heb. 9:6.

However, once a year the high priest passes through the second veil. To atone for the sins of all the people

“ . . .but into the second, only the high priest enters once a year, not without taking blood, which he offers for himself and for the sins of the people committed in ignorance.” Heb. 9:7.

His ritual included washing in the laver of water that sat in the court directly in front of the entrance to the Tabernacle. He sprinkled blood upon himself and the altar. Only then did he pass through the second veil and enter into the realm of the Spirit. That is where Moses would return from with his face all bright with the glory of the Spirit. 2Cor. 3:7. That was the purpose of the smaller veil , so that the people did not see his aging face as if under a spotlight. 2Cor. 3:13. That smaller veil represents the ‘blindness of Israel’ (Rom. 11:25, 2Cor. 3:14), and the blindness of these things of the Spirit to people today, as the ‘veil is removed in Christ.’ 2Cor. 3:14. The overall picture depicts the joining of the high priest with the witness of water (laver) and blood (sprinkling) and spirit (from behind the second veil). 1John 5:8. The ‘three into the one’ scenario depicts Christ coming with the Holy Spirit (Luke 4:1) and the Father (John 14:11) ‘in’ Him as the complete ‘image of the invisible God.’ Col. 1:15. That is what it meant for God to be ‘in’ Him reconciling us to Himself. 2Cor. 5:19. And thus, when He received the Holy Spirit from John in the Jordan (Matt. 3:16), He was being prepared to enter the Heavenly Tabernacle Above and fulfill all righteousness.

“But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.” Heb. 9:11+12.

This is most important, Paul, and the key to understanding our access to the free gift of God. When Christ entered into the heavenly tabernacle, He was not acquiring eternal redemption for everyone and all things. He obtained eternal redemption for Himself. Let us read about this from Paul:

“But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is “in” Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith.” Rom. 3:21-25.

The redemption we must receive is ‘in’ Christ Jesus. He is the ONLY One to receive eternal redemption in Himself. The Spirit of God places us into His body (sealed in Him; Eph. 1:13+14, 40:30) the moment we believe Paul’s gospel. Our salvation, redemption, justification and sanctification come from being found ‘in’ Him. Every person who is found outside of Him must use the Jewish priesthood in order to work through the types, and appropriate these things by applying the blood of Christ to the altar and priest. Hebrews is the Levitical Textbook for the coming Messianic Kingdom, and the “Royal Priesthood” and “Holy Nation” and “Chosen Race” of Israel. 1Pet. 2:9. What is the difference Paul? Today, we are baptized into the body of Christ Himself through Paul’s gospel. We are seated ‘in’ Christ ‘in’ the heavenly places even now. Eph. 2:4-7 (6). Those who enter the kingdom of God through repentance and water baptism (Mark 1:4, Acts 2:38), through the coming Messianic Kingdom, will be baptize into the one body of the Holy Spirit (baptized with the Holy Spirit). That is not the same thing as becoming a member of the body of Christ. He (Spirit of Elijah) will prepare them for the coming Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Rev. 19:5-10. Those are the ones prepared by the ‘sons of the bridal chamber.’ Mark 2:19. The ‘bride’ shall be joined to the ‘body’ through that marriage ceremony. And that only represents two of the bodies of New Jerusalem (body of Christ; 1Cor. 12:27, and body of Moses, 1Cor. 10:2.). There is still the third body of Elijah which remains a mystery to everyone to this day. That explains why his disciples continued to run back and forth between Christ and John, while he remained in prison. (Matt. 11:4). I am a little off topic here, but trying to paint the complete picture of what Christ was teaching in Matt. 17:1-6, and those three witnesses (Elijah spirit, Christ blood, Moses water) on the Holy Mount; earthly depicting heavenly.

Paul’s quote >> Psa 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Paul’s commentary >> The entire NATION was being "prepared" for the priesthood in preparation for the coming kingdom.

Paul’s second quote >> Ex. 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.

Paul’s question >> Is this what your saying TSM?

John the Baptist was the witness of Spirit who came baptizing in water to prepare the entire nation of Israel to become a nation of priests (Ex. 19:6). He carried the Holy Spirit from the womb and was also a priest after the order of Melchizedek. Everything Christ is in His Heavenly Kingdom (Prophet, Priest and King), John the Baptist was in the earthly kingdom. Elijah’s earthly ministry is to prepare Israel for her heavenly joining to the Lord (On earth as it is in heaven; Matt. 6:10). The kingdom of heaven does not replace the earth, but the two are joined as a husband and a bride. Rev. 21:2. David sits on his earthly throne as ‘prince’ forever (Eze. 37:25), while Christ is upon His heavenly throne forever (over whole universe).

Paul’s quote >> Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
I better go take a bath!!

Baaaa! Paul! When our Apostle Paul was converted, then the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 24:14) was the only good news in town. Christ later revealed our gospel (Gal. 1:11+12) to Paul and gave him the ‘dispensation of God’s grace’ (Eph. 3:2) for us Gentiles today. Do you really want another bath? Or to be baptized ‘into’ Christ? Gal. 3:26?

God bless,

Terral

 

[@@Paul@@]

Does the word baptisim not mean to be put under water?

No, not necessarily; it means to make fully wet.

G907
baptizo&#772;
bap-tid'-zo
From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.

G911
bapto&#772;
bap'-to
A primary verb; to whelm, that is, cover wholly with a fluid; in the New Testament only in a qualified or specific sense, that is, (literally) to moisten (a part of one’s person), or (by implication) to stain (as with dye): - dip.​

Which is why we must also study the OT "washings" to understand the meaning of Baptism in the NT.

 

[Terral]

Hi Paul:

I did not like your definition of Baptism. “Fully Wet?” That is not even close, and does not convey the meaning of the root of the word. That guy should be shot.

Here is Vine’s definition:

baptizo -- "to baptize," primarily a frequentative form of bapto, "to dip," was used among the Greeks to signify the dyeing of a garment, or the drawing of water by dipping a vessel into another, etc. Plutarchus uses it of the drawing of wine by dipping the cup into the bowl (Alexis, 67) and Plato, metaphorically, of being overwhelmed with questions (Euthydemus, 277 D).

Beyond that Vine gets into his own interpretations on how these words are used. The phrases ‘Christian baptism’ and ‘believer’s baptism’ are not Scriptural. There are ‘baptism’s associated with the ‘good news concerning the kingdom of God’ (Acts 8:12-17), and Paul’s ‘one baptism’ which is done by the ‘one Spirit.’ 1Cor. 12:13.

“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.” 1Cor. 12:13.

The common trait of the water (of the Kingdom) and Spirit (of Grace) baptisms is that each describes the believer being ‘dipped’ into a body. The kingdom baptism is into water, where we are baptized by the ‘one Spirit’ into Christ and into His death (Rom. 6:3+4). We should not forget that the water baptism of Scripture is John’s Baptism for the forgiveness of sins. Mark 1:4. Again, there is no such teaching in our Bible of a ‘believer’s baptism’ for us today. That would make Paul a liar by saying that we have just one. Eph. 4:5.


In Christ,

by the ‘one baptism’ of 1Cor. 12:13,


Terral

 

[@@Paul@@]

Actually, Our baptism is DEATH. see Rom. 6:3-6 and repeated in Col 2:10-12.

I don't think he should be shot, it's possible that Christ was "washed".

Edited:

Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.​

...Baptisms and washings are the same greek word. This can also be seen here in Mark.

Mar 7:4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.​

and of course i've quoted the meaning of baptismos, but i'll do it again.

G909
&#946;&#945;&#960;&#964;&#953;&#963;&#956;&#959;&#769;&#962;
baptismos
bap-tis-mos'
From G907; ablution (ceremonially or Christian): - baptism, washing.

ablution
ab·lu·tion [&#601; bl&#63507;sh’n]
n
ritual washing: the ritual cleansing of a priest’s hands or body, or of sacred vessels, during a religious ceremony

npl or ab·lu·tions
washing yourself: the act of washing the hands or the whole of the body (formal or humorous)​

Now that we have an understanding of the root of the word. Let's look again at "baptizo&#772;"

G907
&#946;&#945;&#960;&#964;&#953;&#769;&#950;&#969;
baptizo&#772;
bap-tid'-zo
From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.​

Again, it is possible that baptism was a "ritual cleansing".

 

[In Christ Forever]

Nice post Paul. The difference between OC rituals and NC spirit. If baptism if by the Spirit, then it appears upon belief in Jesus, we are automatically washed, sanctified and justifed as he uses all 3 together under "by the spirit" which I assume is from the blood of the CROSS. What do others think?

1 corin 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[@@Paul@@]

Nice post Paul. The difference between OC rituals and NC spirit. If baptism if by the Spirit, then it appears upon belief in Jesus, we are automatically washed, sanctified and justifed as he uses all 3 together under "by the spirit" which I assume is from the blood of the CROSS. What do others think?

Exactly,,, All you have to do is believe...

Eph 1:13-14
(13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.​

(1) here the word of truth (2) believe (3) you WERE sealed

 

[Terral]

Hi Paul:

Paul wrote >> Actually, Our baptism is DEATH. see Rom. 6:3-6 and repeated in Col 2:10-12. I don't think he should be shot, it's possible that Christ was "washed".

We find ourselves in disagreement. Our Baptism is not ‘Death.’ Please do this exercise with me:

“There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.” Eph. 4:4-6.

How many ‘ones’ to you see there, Paul? Body, Spirit, Hope, Lord, Faith, Baptism, God. Seven right? Please tell me exactly how many of those you can see with your human eyes?

The answer is zero. All Seven are of the SPIRITUAL, and none of them is death. Our One Baptism is done by the One Spirit (Holy Spirit), when He dips us into the One Body (Body of Christ). This process of the Spirit of God is done at the very instant that you hear and believe the gospel, according to Eph. 1:13+14. It is in that instant that every believer is baptized into Christ’s own body on the cross at Calvary. We are right there inside His body (with God; 2Cor. 5:19) dying on the cross. His blood that pours out is our blood. When the solider puts the spear into His side, then that is our blood and water coming out too. When He died then we died, and were laid in the tomb. However, the process did not stop there . . . and, again, our One Baptism is not Death, because when God raised Him from the dead, the He raised us up also. When Christ ascended into the heavenly, then we were right there with Him; ‘in’ Him. Eph. 2:6. Right now today, our lives are hidden with Christ in God. Col. 3:1-3. And when He is revealed, then we shall be revealed with Him in glory. Col. 3:4.

Every fiber of Creation longs to be One with Christ again; to be whole again, and we are there inside Him already through the gospel. And, we have an inheritance with Him forever! Every being in creation, seen and unseen, is destined to be where we are found today. They already look upon us at the most fortunate of all. Imagine when we are revealed in glory!

Our one baptism is one of the most magnificent gifts of God that anyone can receive. That is why it saddens my heart so very much to see folks teaching that our One Baptism by the One Spirit has anything at all to do with water. When people believe that our baptism is in water, then they become blinded from seeing the glory of how this operation of the One Spirit places us inside His body. And yes, that guy who gave that ‘makes fully wet’ definition should be skinned alive. To replace the things of the Spirit of God with physical things is I.D.O.L.A.T.R.Y!, and one of the most abominable forms of wickedness described in God’s Word. Please get the water out of your testimony concerning our One Baptism.

In Christ,

Terral

 

[@@Paul@@]

Hi Paul:



We find ourselves in disagreement. Our Baptism is not ‘Death.’ Please do this exercise with me:

How many ‘ones’ to you see there, Paul? Body, Spirit, Hope, Lord, Faith, Baptism, God. Seven right? Please tell me exactly how many of those you can see with your human eyes?

In Christ,

Terral

Hi Terral, The baptism unto death is a spiritual baptism and has nothing to do with water... I'm not sure how you read water into my post...

Rom 6:3-4
(3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
(4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Col 2:10-12
(10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
(11) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.​

...and it happens the moment we believe.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,​

Agreed?

 

[Terral]

Hi Paul:

Paul >> “The baptism unto death is a spiritual baptism and has nothing to do with water... I'm not sure how you read water into my post...

Paul Original from Above >> I don't think he should be shot, it's possible that Christ was "washed".

Your short one-liner posts are difficult to understand sometimes. When you are talking about water and washing with your ‘make fully wet’ comments, and add your quote above, then things get confusing. We do not want you to unintentionally confuse the third party reader who comes to this thread down the road. That definition was horrible, and “Christ was washed” phrases work to distort things. Those are kingdom precepts that do not belong to the body of Christ. And the fact that you are not sure is troubling.

But, thank you for the clarifying statement.


In Christ,

Terral