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How valuable is life?

Apollo Celestio

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This isn't about abortion, or really religious beliefs. This is about other people, all around the world. How much do you value life? Whether the person be a murderer, a genius, or stupid. Is it universal or are some people "better" than others, thus making their life worth more? I've been reading out of my history textbook about world war II, and.. well that's why I made this topic. (Plus somewhere on another board saying something along the lines of intelligence determines the value of your life, and the loss of the stupid is ok.) Try to keep it civil and without insult.
 

Eudaimonist

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How much do you value life? Whether the person be a murderer, a genius, or stupid. Is it universal or are some people "better" than others, thus making their life worth more?

Worth more for what purpose?

To keep this simple, I would have to say that I would value a genius more than a murderer or someone stupid, as long as the genius is applying his genius to some ethical endeavour. (I don't value an Oppenheimer nearly as much as a Louis Pasteur, for example.) An ethical genius is someone who earns my admiration. Admiration would be the the form of the value.

A murderer earns no admiration from me whatsoever. He could only earn moral disgust. However, his value would be in terms of the baseline human dignity I would recognize given his human potentials. I suppose that his value would be in his potential to turn over a new leaf.

For someone of very low I.Q., I suppose I would have to ask again how moral this person is. I would value a kindly Forrest Gump over a murderer, even if the murderer was bright and his potentials high. The actual means more to me than the potential.

In any case, I think we owe it to ourselves to grant every human being at least some measure of human dignity.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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quatona

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This isn't about abortion, or really religious beliefs. This is about other people, all around the world. How much do you value life? Whether the person be a murderer, a genius, or stupid. Is it universal or are some people "better" than others, thus making their life worth more? I've been reading out of my history textbook about world war II, and.. well that's why I made this topic. (Plus somewhere on another board saying something along the lines of intelligence determines the value of your life, and the loss of the stupid is ok.) Try to keep it civil and without insult.
I don´t value the life of certain persons higher than that of others.
That said, I often find myself preferring the presence of certain persons, but of others not so much.
 
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Emmy

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Dear Ishida. I dare say the answer to your question is subjective. I can only give my own appraisal, and since I am a Christian, my life is from God, and I hope that one day I will be where I came from. To God we are all precious, He made us in His image to be with Him for eternity. Since Adam and Eve were lured away from God by a lying tempter, God banished us to Earth to learn to resist temptation, to learn to trust our loving Creator. When in time Jesus came, to redeem us from what we had become, Selfish, Uncaring for our Creator and each other, we had moved too far away from God, to be in dire need of a Saviour. Jesus paid the price which God`s Holy Law demanded, He reconciled us to God. His Life and Blood were given for us, can we think of a higher value? All we have to do now: Repent, exchange our selfish and disloyal lives into loving and trusting ones, become what God had decreed for us from the beginning, " Loving children, of our loving Father in Heaven. Our Lives are very valuable to God. I say this humbly and with assurance, Ishida, and send greetings. Emmy, your sister in Christ.
 
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Robbie_James_Francis

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Incredibly valuable.

I don't think life's value is based on 'intelligence', but rather on sentience. I guess it's pretty similar...but I wouldn't define the value on the ability to think, but the ability to feel pleasure and pain.

So it's not just about human beings exclusively. As Peter Singer argues, if we reject ideas of the human soul and don't define humans as 'rational animals' as Aristotle did, then to refuse rights to sentient beings is unjustified 'speciesism'.
 
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craigerNY

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Can a non believer possibly answer that all human life is of equal value given your posts in the Atheism fad thread?

I'd certainly like to tell you that it is my conviction that all life is of equal worth and like quatana said there is certain company I could do without, no I don't mean kill them I just mean that I'd rather not associate with them.

My question is to you, do you believe it is possible for me, being a non-believer to hold that conviction?
 
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Robbie_James_Francis

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My question is to you, do you believe it is possible for me, being a non-believer to hold that conviction?

I know the question wasn't directed to me, but I'm not sure how you can get to that belief as a non-believer. :scratch:
 
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Eudaimonist

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I don't think life's value is based on 'intelligence', but rather on sentience.

Why sentience?

So it's not just about human beings exclusively. As Peter Singer argues, if we reject ideas of the human soul and don't define humans as 'rational animals' as Aristotle did, then to refuse rights to sentient beings is unjustified 'speciesism'.

And if we define humans as cellular life, then carrots and onions would have rights too, and even vegans would be murderers and speciesists.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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craigerNY

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I know the question wasn't directed to me, but I'm not sure how you can get to that belief as a non-believer. :scratch:
I don't know exactly. I am inclined to say nature. It is my position that faith, religion (whatever you want to call it) is learned. The value of life seems to not be a learned trait but a natural one and shared by many at that. It is a good one to ponder. What is your take on the value of life?
 
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IzzyPop

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I think I said this before in a different thread, but I can say it here as well.

No, not all human life has the same value. If you are trying to harm me, your life is worth little or nothing to me and if you are hurt or die, I could really care less. If, instead, you are being swept away in a flood, or caught in a burning house, or in some other immediate peril, I would find the value of your life equating mine and I would risk my life to save yours.
 
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elman

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This isn't about abortion, or really religious beliefs. This is about other people, all around the world. How much do you value life? Whether the person be a murderer, a genius, or stupid. Is it universal or are some people "better" than others, thus making their life worth more? I've been reading out of my history textbook about world war II, and.. well that's why I made this topic. (Plus somewhere on another board saying something along the lines of intelligence determines the value of your life, and the loss of the stupid is ok.) Try to keep it civil and without insult.

Physical life is important but many things are more important than physical life. Spiritual life is more important than anything else.
 
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Robbie_James_Francis

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Why sentience?

Because I'm vaguely utilitarian. I suppose I mean it in a way that incorporates intelligence in a way...so the fact that a plant grows towards light doens't give it rights, because it doesn't realise that it does it, and lacks complex emotions.

And if we define humans as cellular life, then carrots and onions would have rights too, and even vegans would be murderers and speciesists.

Yep. And I have no problem saying that inasmuch as carrots are capable of sentience, they should not be harmed. Fortunately, they are not. In theory, I believe we have no need to consider the 'rights' of vegetables because they lack significant sentience. But obviously in reality the fact that they lack this sentience is a concept inherent in the idea of a vegetable, so we don't need to make this extra step of examining their ability to feel.
 
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Robbie_James_Francis

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I don't know exactly. I am inclined to say nature. It is my position that faith, religion (whatever you want to call it) is learned. The value of life seems to not be a learned trait but a natural one and shared by many at that. It is a good one to ponder. What is your take on the value of life?

I certainly think that the belief in the value of life is a natural one, but I'm not sure why the belief that all life is equal would be.
 
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KalithAlur

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I think feelings are what give things the right to live. If you feel pain of any kind, you can be "betrayed" by your environment, and there's actually now a reason not to physically injure you (aside from environmental implications, such as when forests are cut down).

If you feel pleasure, you get something out of life. If you only feel apathy and pain, a quick and painless death would actually be merciful, but torture would be wrong. If you actually feel some sort of joy, you lose something significant when you cease to exist.

If you'r a robot capable of complex logical thought processes, and have not emotion, what do I care if your death is convenient? Pull the trigger!

Feelings are the foundation of any objective ethic, I think. Why? Feelings are the reason "bad" things and "good" things even can exist. Without good and bad sensation, there is only apathetic experience... soulless existence, free of tragedy, triumph, betrayal, slavery, freedom, ect ...

and at this point in our conversation, I ask: Where do you draw your sandbox lines? I mean, if something only feels "a little" or doesn't appear to be "that sentient," is it ok to kill it?

I answer that it is ok for predators to kill prey so long as they are incapable of thinking of another way to survive and experience joy, but that man is perhaps more capable than any other known animal of being resourceful, and so might perhaps benefit from egg-eating vegetarianism.

I don't think it's right to attack a lion for killing a deer, nor to attack a man for killing a lion. The world is very imperfect... The predator/prey relationship exists as a result of blind causality, perhaps an eternity of causes continuing on and on, the whole universe being reborn every moment.

But evolution guided by will might improve things, no?
 
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Verv

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Without life there is no joy (of course there is also no pain but the pain we have in life is worthwhile because of the excesses of joy).

If we have no life we have nothing, thus it is the highest value in existence and ought to be guarded and appreciated.
 
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Apollo Celestio

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Can a non believer possibly answer that all human life is of equal value given your posts in the Atheism fad thread?

I'd certainly like to tell you that it is my conviction that all life is of equal worth and like quatana said there is certain company I could do without, no I don't mean kill them I just mean that I'd rather not associate with them.

My question is to you, do you believe it is possible for me, being a non-believer to hold that conviction?
I wouldn't have asked if I didn't. Though I'd imagine there would be varied beliefs, which there are.
 
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GettinInTune

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This isn't about abortion, or really religious beliefs. This is about other people, all around the world. How much do you value life?
It varies over time. I have been so down on life that I thought of suicide, but would never take action. I have also experienced life to the most extreme pleasure that I was bursting at the seems. . Today, I am a content, but I know more happiness awaits me. I am mellow and appreciative.

I also have two younger brothers that added together equal my age. Would I give me life if they could each experience five more years? Yes. Would I give 20 years of my life so your brother could live 10 more? Probably not if I never met him. I am being honest.

(Plus somewhere on another board saying something along the lines of intelligence determines the value of your life, and the loss of the stupid is ok.) Try to keep it civil and without insult.
It goes back to Plato's Republic.
 
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Renton405

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This isn't about abortion, or really religious beliefs. This is about other people, all around the world. How much do you value life? Whether the person be a murderer, a genius, or stupid. Is it universal or are some people "better" than others, thus making their life worth more? I've been reading out of my history textbook about world war II, and.. well that's why I made this topic. (Plus somewhere on another board saying something along the lines of intelligence determines the value of your life, and the loss of the stupid is ok.) Try to keep it civil and without insult.


In general is seems more intelligent people are viewed as more valuable than average or below average people of intelligence. Good social skills is another thing that people base value on. In fact a person with good social skills will probably do better than the smart person as far as earning respect and value.. However it really depends on a mix of street smarts and book smarts. There are many people with high IQs but lack street smarts and thus cannot get ahead far in the world, and thus people viewed them as less value than someone who is say, a dog-eat dog person who does anything to get ahead..People tend to respect things that they fear..

There is also luck and timing. many people are just in the right place at the right time and thus they become big. So theres many factors. I know many college graduates who have bad jobs and many high school drop outs who have good paying white collar jobs. Personally I think the biggest factor of what determines the other view of the value of the person is their social skills, and then second would be intelligence..

either way it all won't matter when you go face to face on judgement day..The thing that really matters most in this world is your relationship with God and his salvation through Christ.. I consider myself an average person, but I would rather be an average person with faith in God rather than a high roller CEO that has everything materially but nothing spiritually.. All that butt kissing a CEO will get won't do him any good when judgement day comes, so people like that are not something you wanna look up to(or any person for that matter, be yourself)
 
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StarCannon

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Hmm... how many people are there in the world?

About seven billion. If we viewed one life amidst so many, the life is worthless. There will be more to replace him or her.

If there were only a thousand of us left, then perhaps the individual would be much more valuable. IT sounds really dry and cold and heartless, but it is the reality of numbers. I suppose a person is as only as valuable as the people around then give them value; otherwise, who would bother to save him if no one bothered? Who would kill him if everyone thought he was valuable?

Otherwise, the cost of human life on a planet with an overabundance of human is pretty much nil.
 
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