How tolerant are you of other religions?

Wisdom Seeker said:

Would it be stating the obvious to say that Muslims aren't the only ones who've said that the Bible is corrupt? Christians can't agree on which version is God's word and which has been changed so much that it's corrupt either. It's one of the most vehemently fought battles among Christians today.

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Exactly! And this is between saved, born-again, bible-believing christians all claiming to have the correct interpretation of the inerrant, divinely inspired word of God. I'm sorry, but until they can get their own house in order, please don't start pointing fingers at my house.

tolerance can be great, but it doesn't give people the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, it gives them what they want to hear, and sometimes we need to hear what we don't want to hear.

tcampen said:

Exactly! And this is between saved, born-again, bible-believing christians all claiming to have the correct interpretation of the inerrant, divinely inspired word of God. I'm sorry, but until they can get their own house in order, please don't start pointing fingers at my house.

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no one is pointing at your house but God himself, telling you to get right with him, man will fail you but the Lord he never will.

radorth said:

Well OK, you found a semi-wealthy one where the average home size is 400 sq ft.

Yes, they were just conquered, rebuilt and had their first democratic government installed with money straight out of my Dad's wallet, without which they'd be dirt-poor Communists.

Rad

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Namaste Rad,

i've seen your other intelligent responses to postings.. so i'm unclear why you are dismissing this in this fashion.

semi-wealthy? Japan is the second wealthiest nation in the world.. that's a bit above the dismissive "semi" wouldn't you agree? here's a list of the G7 nations by Economic Importance:


Economic Importance, 1998 (GDP x PC Inc) figures in quadrillion people dollars 1. USA 197.9
2. Japan 57.1
3. Germany 26.0
4. The United Kingdom 22.2
5. Italy 20.4
6. France 20.2
7. Canada 16.9

so we can clearly see that Japan is #2, faR behind the US and well above Germany. is this semi-wealthy? if so.. Canada must be a back water filling station on a dirt road.

these gross generalizations are quite inconsistent with your normally lucid and articluate postings.. and it's quite bizzare.

i'm unclear how you've determined what the size of a house is in Japan.. i seem to recall many much larger places when i was there, perhaps you have some sort of reference you can post for us to review?

i see... let me see if understand your logic here...

If America hadn't won the war with Japan, Japan would have suddenly become a dirt poor communist country? despite it's having one of the best military forces in the world? i'd love to hear this convoluted logic explained! and your father paid, out of his wallet, for all of this?! truly astounding!

and yet... this directly contradicts your assertion that only Christian nations or nations with a Christian heritage are wealthy and prosperous.

revolutio said:

Of course sin is not a concept present in all religions so it is understandable that its answer to it would be 'unique'.

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This is what separates true religion from false. We know in our hearts we have sin. Some seek to make peace with God over it, but most people either make up their own atonement on their own terms or else say it isn't sin or else attack the religion that says it is. Anything, just to keep living the sin lifestyle and suppress the truth that there is a God before Whom we all shall stand. And it's sad. Very sad.

Whitehorse said:

This is what separates true religion from false. We know in our hearts we have sin. Some seek to make peace with God over it, but most people either make up their own atonement on their own terms or else say it isn't sin or else attack the religion that says it is. Anything, just to keep living the sin lifestyle and suppress the truth that there is a God before Whom we all shall stand. And it's sad. Very sad.

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Namaste Whitehorse,

by "we" do you mean to indicate yourself and other believing Christians? i do not share this belief

or are you asserting that the only religion that is valid is one that teaches that all people are sinful by nature?

in actuality, though, most religions (not all) that don't teach that people are inherently sinful still have moral and ethical teachings.. and some of them, even have consequences for one's actions that, in some respects, are similar to the Christian paradigm.

vajradhara said:

Namaste Whitehorse,

by "we" do you mean to indicate yourself and other believing Christians? i do not share this belief

or are you asserting that the only religion that is valid is one that teaches that all people are sinful by nature?

in actuality, though, most religions (not all) that don't teach that people are inherently sinful still have moral and ethical teachings.. and some of them, even have consequences for one's actions that, in some respects, are similar to the Christian paradigm.

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I'm saying that regardless of what any religion teaches, we all know we have sin in our hearts. Everyone has done wrong things and they know in their hearts it's wrong. Also, I'm not questioning at all that people suppress the truth that we are accountable to God for it. But people make religions that suit them and choose them accordingly. But in our hearts, we do know. Everyone does.

I am pretty tolerant of most religions...There is one or two,well.......lets just say I'm not to tolerant....

Originally Posted By: tcampen

Exactly! And this is between saved, born-again, bible-believing christians all claiming to have the correct interpretation of the inerrant, divinely inspired word of God. I'm sorry, but until they can get their own house in order, please don't start pointing fingers at my house.

Godzman said:

no one is pointing at your house but God himself, telling you to get right with him, man will fail you but the Lord he never will.

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I totally agree. But the problem is God himself is really much different than what all these other people (including Christians) are saying. I've got it right with god, which is why I am not a christian.

Thanks for the insight, but I'm already covered.

Whitehorse said:

I'm saying that regardless of what any religion teaches, we all know we have sin in our hearts. Everyone has done wrong things and they know in their hearts it's wrong. Also, I'm not questioning at all that people suppress the truth that we are accountable to God for it. But people make religions that suit them and choose them accordingly. But in our hearts, we do know. Everyone does.

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How are we "accountable to God" for our sins within the Christian Framwork? Saved people go to heaven based on faith alone, and the non-saved go to hell....and this is regardless of the sins committed. Do the saved have to pay a price and be held accountable in heaven for their sins too? Hmmmmmmmmm.

No, I see a contradiction here.

tcampen said:

How are we "accountable to God" for our sins within the Christian Framwork? Saved people go to heaven based on faith alone, and the non-saved go to hell....and this is regardless of the sins committed. Do the saved have to pay a price and be held accountable in heaven for their sins too? Hmmmmmmmmm.

No, I see a contradiction here.

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I'm not sure what the contradiction is, but there is a piece of the puzzle missing.

First, God covers the sins of those who trust in the blood of His son. Whatever sins were committed. However, we will all face the judgment. Christians are also subject to different conditions while here on earth. God cleanses us of our sin so we will be deemed worthy on the final day. So, while we are saved by grace alone, through] faith alone, we are required to repent of our sins. If the faith is real, repentance comes with.

tcampen said:

How are we "accountable to God" for our sins within the Christian Framwork? Saved people go to heaven based on faith alone, and the non-saved go to hell....and this is regardless of the sins committed. Do the saved have to pay a price and be held accountable in heaven for their sins too? Hmmmmmmmmm.

No, I see a contradiction here.

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No sin is not imputed to the one that has asked Jesus for forgiveness and mercy. He paid the price and you too can enjoy this forgiveness tcampen.

tcampen said:

For me, I cannot accept your positions and still stive to maintain the vituous traits of respect, honesty and empathy. I would personally have to abandon all that to believe what your believe, and I find it exceedingly difficult to understand why God would want be to do that. I know you don't agree with this point, but perhaps you can find it in your heart to at least respect it.

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Putting my respect for your decision aside for now
TC if you were in that house fire I'd do my level best to get you safely out of it even if it ment having to drag you out kicking and screaming all the way. I will not respect your choise to burn to your doom.
Likewise as a Christian with deep beliefs about eternity it is my duty to inform all, I said, all, that judgement is coming.

TLGitom said:

No sin is not imputed to the one that has asked Jesus for forgiveness and mercy. He paid the price and you too can enjoy this forgiveness tcampen.

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This is why tcampen is debating TLG I feel that he really is seeking what to do about his hearts condition. He and the others that are of religion or are athiest, and do not associate themselves with Christianity came to this site for answers. Let us pray that he and others might see their need for Christ.

Thats a big can do and have done Palatka44.

Re: vajradhara

I note your handle contains "rad" so I'm sure we'll be friends in time.

If America hadn't won the war with Japan, Japan would have suddenly become a dirt poor communist country? despite it's having one of the best military forces in the world? i'd love to hear this convoluted logic explained! and your father paid, out of his wallet, for all of this?! truly astounding!

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Man, you gotta catch up on your history. Stalin was crouching at the door, ready to take on Japan. There's absolutely no way Japan could have won, and I marvel you would even suggest it. What if America had not been there with the A-bomb and then gone in and rebuilt it? What if it took conventional weapons another two years to end the war? Japan as it turns out, was extremely lucky to have been conquered by America. It would not be a democracy- that's for sure!!!

Oh yeah, their "great military force" was so depleted at wars end that the populace was being trained to fight the Americans and Russians to the death. In Japan, that included children, just as in Germany.

Yes, I reassert, my Dad (and his generation obviously) paid for rebuliding Japan. Did you think it came from the tooth fairy tax? It's your logic that's astounding I'm afraid.

Oh, by the way. The cost of rebuilding Iraq and establishing democracy there will cost me at least $3000 because of my tax bracket, but the average will be $2000. We will have a huge deficit to pay off, just as my Dad did.

Rad

For me, I cannot accept your positions and still stive to maintain the vituous traits of respect, honesty and empathy. I would personally have to abandon all that to believe what your believe, and I find it exceedingly difficult to understand why God would want be to do that. I know you don't agree with this point, but perhaps you can find it in your heart to at least respect it.

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I suggest it is the respectful, law abiding, honest and empathetic people who become Christians just as easily. Not to mention the most brilliant, benevolent and insightful people like M. Scott Peck, Charles Finney and Albert Sweitzer to name a few- and whose conversion only made their sensitivity more keen. While you can point to charlatans in the mix, Christians have set the standards for honesty, empathy and a love of justice.

1. Four Bible totin' Quaker men came out against slavery in 1680, although they were severely ostricised for so doing.

2. The first black female college graduate was graduated from Oberlin c 1840, a college started by "fundies," of which Charles Finney became president. Harvard did not even graduate females, let alone black ones for another 40 years

3. Charles Finney's budget for benevolent social action, feeding the poor, establishing hospitals and orphanages, at one time exceeded the entire federal budget.

4. The "factory laws" to reduce child labor in England were introduced by a Christian "fundy" named Stapleton.

5. George Whitefield, an Anglican minister and evangelist, was not allowed to preach in the churches of New England because he "allowed women, negroes and children" to come up and speak from the pulpit. Even the skeptic Franklin greatly admired him. Whitefield lived very modestly, and used most of the money he collected from his huge audiences to build orphanages.

6. Sherman said of the woman who lead the Christian Commission in the Civil War "She outranks me." He was of course expressing his profound admiration for her tireless benevolent acts of charity and empathy.

7, The vast majority of private hospitals and medical missions in the world were established by Christians.

Would you like some more facts, or will that do for now?

Read a history book not written by a liberal college professor, and you'll find out "fundie" Christians have set all the marks for empathy and honesty. If you think "respect" includes being dishonest about historical fact, or failing to tell people what they need to hear, or means being politically correct, then yes, I don't have much of that.

Thanks, but I'm not buying your holy claims. Compared to Christ, our inspiration, you have nothing to brag about.

Yeah I know, I'm being disrespectful.

Rad

radorth said:

Japan as it turns out, was extremely lucky to have been conquered by America. It would not be a democracy- that's for sure!!!

Oh yeah, their "great military force" was so depleted at wars end that the populace was being trained to fight the Americans and Russians to the death. In Japan, that included children, just as in Germany.

Yes, I reassert, my Dad (and his generation obviously) paid for rebuliding Japan. Did you think it came from the tooth fairy tax? It's your logic that's astounding I'm afraid.

Oh, by the way. The cost of rebuilding Iraq and establishing democracy there will cost me at least $3000 because of my tax bracket, but the average will be $2000. We will have a huge deficit to pay off, just as my Dad did.

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Radroth

I dunno. I find modern democratic systems a tad hypocritical. You get to vote for a leader or representative once every 4 years. Yet you have no say on what happens DURING those 4 years. Protest all you want, since when do they listen? But they love their riot police and pepper gas.

So, they're gonna do it anyway. Presidency after Presidency. One President takes the fall for one war, 4 years later you have a fresh one to lay a few wars on. People get upset, Next. And the cycle continues.

Hmmm what else? Oh ya! Democracy can also be seen as 51% of the population oppressing the other 49%.

Yes, no?

I dunno. I find modern democratic systems a tad hypocritical. You get to vote for a leader or representative once every 4 years. Yet you have no say on what happens DURING those 4 years. Protest all you want, since when do they listen? But they love their riot police and pepper gas.

So, they're gonna do it anyway. Presidency after Presidency. One President takes the fall for one war, 4 years later you have a fresh one to lay a few wars on. People get upset, Next. And the cycle continues.

Hmmm what else? Oh ya! Democracy can also be seen as 51% of the population oppressing the other 49%.

Yes, no?

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Moving the goal posts are you?

"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the rest." (Winston Churchill)

Well of course there is a much better government coming, after all the self-righteous holy folks and hypocrites are removed from the earth. Hope to see you there.

Rad

I'm counting on it

.Mo