How to get to heaven when you die

revelations12_12 · Mar 4, 2005

I_are_sceptical said:
Baha'u'llah does not claim to be a "new" Christ. He claims to be the same Christ with new and updated teachings from God.

This contradicts the bible,

Acts 1:10 - And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; [read chapter] Acts 1:11 - Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. [read chapter]

When Jesus returns his name will be Jesus Christ

I_are_sceptical · Mar 4, 2005

revelations12_12 said:
You keep mentioning these scriptures, can you post the ones you are referencing and then we can work from there. Before you said you found reference in the bible, if you could also qoute that scripture that would help us along.

Looking forward to this debate brother.

I'm not sure why I would post Baha'i Scripture or Biblical references. I know what I have learned in my years of study, and I have reached some conclusions. People keep telling me my conclusions are wrong, yet they have no idea what those conclusions are based on. That doesn't make much sense to me.

If Christians have not read Baha'i Scripture, why do they keep telling me it is not the Word of God? If someone has never read a single word of the New Testament, and says "Just take my word for it, Christianity is false", would you agree with that person and give up Jesus?

I did not join Christian Forums to debate. I have no interest in teaching my religion to anyone here. I joined to see if any Christian can answer my questions about why Baha'u'llah is false.

revelations12_12 · Mar 4, 2005

I_are_sceptical said:
I'm not sure why I would post Baha'i Scripture or Biblical references. I know what I have learned in my years of study, and I have reached some conclusions. People keep telling me my conclusions are wrong, yet they have no idea what those conclusions are based on. That doesn't make much sense to me.

If Christians have not read Baha'i Scripture, why do they keep telling me it is not the Word of God? If someone has never read a single word of the New Testament, and says "Just take my word for it, Christianity is false", would you agree with that person and give up Jesus?

I did not join Christian Forums to debate. I have no interest in teaching my religion to anyone here. I joined to see if any Christian can answer my questions about why Baha'u'llah is false.

I'm not sure why I would post Baha'i Scripture or Biblical references. I know what I have learned in my years of study, and I have reached some conclusions. People keep telling me my conclusions are wrong, yet they have no idea what those conclusions are based on. That doesn't make much sense to me.

I did not join Christian Forums to debate. I have no interest in teaching my religion to anyone here. I joined to see if any Christian can answer my questions about why Baha'u'llah is false.

Well this is a contradiction, why exactly are you here to have Christains tell you why it is false? Or to not listen to Christians because they have not read the baha'l'allah scriptures?

I am here to answer your questions, frame them up for me, and lets get to it do not get frustrated I only want to help you acheive your goals here.

I_are_sceptical · Mar 4, 2005

revelations12_12 said:
This contradicts the bible

I disagree. It contradicts an interpretation of the Bible. Maybe the interpretation is wrong.

When Jesus returns his name will be Jesus Christ

Okay, and I have heard a different view about this. Which of those beliefs does God agree with?

revelations12_12 · Mar 4, 2005

I_are_sceptical said:
I disagree. It contradicts an interpretation of the Bible. Maybe the interpretation is wrong.

Okay, and I have heard a different view about this. Which of those beliefs does God agree with?

Where did you hear the different view? Could you reference it for me?

I_are_sceptical · Mar 4, 2005

revelations12_12 said:
Well this is a contradiction, why exactly are you here to have Christains tell you why it is false?

Yes, I am aware it is a contradiction. Christians keep telling me that God does not want me to believe in the Baha'i Faith, yet they have never shown me any evidence that God agrees with them.

Or to not listen to Christians because they have not read the baha'l'allah scriptures?

I want to listen to God, not to a group of people. Can the Christians prove they are right?

I am here to answer your questions, frame them up for me, and lets get to it.

First question: Baha'u'llah claims to be God's newest Messenger. How would I go about determining if that claim is true or false?

Where did you hear the different view? Could you reference it for me?

The different view is a religion called the Baha'i Faith.

Daughter of His · Mar 4, 2005

My first thought is does your Baha'u'llah "line up" with the Bible at every referance. God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow and the word of God does not change.

revelations12_12 · Mar 4, 2005

I_are_sceptical said:
First question: Baha'u'llah claims to be God's newest Messenger. How would I go about determining if that claim is true or false?

The way you could go about it is by reading the actual word of God, if this man claims to be Christ and represents the word of God am I wrong to assume he claims the words of Jesus Christ were his own?

If so I would cross reference the words of Jesus Christ and what he said about others that would come that would claim to be him. Then he goes on to tell what will happen when he returns. Reading and understanding this prophecy was the defense he gave us to see through the false words and healings performed by the false profits.

Matthew 24:11 - And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. [read chapter]

Matthew 26:60 - But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, [read chapter] 1 John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. [read chapter]

The entire book of revelations was given to John the Revelator by God to protect us from and prepare us for this. Why would God give us these scriptures only to later go against his own word. Only through the son Jesus Christ can we be saved. Send a new and different Christ, or the same Christ in a different form and with a different name goes against Gods plan as was revealed through his prophets.

New Prophecies are possible but they will not go against the word of God.

Daughter of His · Mar 4, 2005

I'm curious how does it claims to be the messenger. We must be careful to NOT be deceived.

I_are_sceptical · Mar 4, 2005

Daughter of His said:
My first thought is does your Baha'u'llah "line up" with the Bible at every referance.

No, He doesn't. That is why (I believe) a new religious system is necessary. If Baha'u'llah lined up with every Biblical reference He would have led a Christian revival, not founded the Baha'i Faith.

God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow and the word of God does not change.

Baha'u'llah said something about "the unchanging Faith of God" yet started a new religion. So I guess the Baha'i interpretation of "does not change" is different from other interpretations.

I'm curious how does it claims to be the messenger. We must be careful to NOT be deceived.

Please clarify. "he" would be a messenger, "it" would be a message. The way you phrased this question puzzles me.

I agree. I certainly don't want to be deceived.

JPPT1974 · Mar 4, 2005

Going to heaven is accepting Christ as Savior & Lord is the one and only way to heaven.

revelations12_12 · Mar 4, 2005

I_are_sceptical said:
No, He doesn't. That is why (I believe) a new religious system is necessary. If Baha'u'llah lined up with every Biblical reference He would have led a Christian revival, not founded the Baha'i Faith.

Baha'u'llah said something about "the unchanging Faith of God" yet started a new religion. So I guess the Baha'i interpretation of "does not change" is different from other interpretations.

This to me sounds like a contradiction.
How can there be a seperate interpretation for the phrase "does not change"?

Any ways I am not here to question you but vice versa...

Do you have another question?

revelations12_12 · Mar 4, 2005

JPPT1974 said:
Going to heaven is accepting Christ as Savior & Lord is the one and only way to heaven.

With all due respect sometimes telling people this, who do not have your religious background, is counter productive.

Before I found faith I was against Christianity because people just used blanket statements on me instead of adressing my questions. I found the truth of Jesus by seeing the face of Satan through alternate studies. Now I wish to answer peoples questions and help them to understand things they do not just see or accept as gospel.

Educated people with no religious foundation that are searching, need to be shown the irrefutable proof, and all we can do as Christains is try our best to help them to see it.

We know it is there, you and I Now lets show everyone!!

I_are_sceptical · Mar 4, 2005

revelations12_12 said:
The way you could go about it is by reading the actual word of God

And how do you decide what is or is not the Word of God?

If you were Jewish, living 1900 years ago, and someone told you that Jesus was the Messiah, would you consider what Christians were writing to be the Word of God?

if this man claims to be Christ and represents the word of God am I wrong to assume he claims the words of Jesus Christ were his own?

Not exactly. Baha'u'llah says His teachings and Jesus' teachings come from the same Source of truth. The closest Baha'u'llah came to making a specific claim like this, that I know of, was the claim that He was the Voice in the Burning Bush.

If so I would cross reference the words of Jesus Christ and what he said about others that would come that would claim to be him. Then he goes on to tell what will happen when he returns. Reading and understanding this prophecy was the defense he gave us to see through the false words and healings performed by the false profits.

I have done that. I spent seven years comparing Christianity and the Baha'i Faith in an effort to find out what God wanted me to believe. I am not really convinced that those prophecies disprove Baha'u'llah. It seems to me that it is more a case of theological interpretation than the actual words of the Bible.

This to me sounds like a contradiction.
How can there be a seperate interpretation for the phrase "does not change"?

Yes, it does sound like a contradiction. I haven't really figured it out myself, so I can't explain it to other people.
How can there be a separate interpretation? Perhaps because God has spoken to humanity again in recent years.

I_are_sceptical · Mar 4, 2005

revelations12_12 said:
I found the truth of Jesus by seeing the face of Satan through alternate studies.

Interesting. I saw the Face of God through alternate studies.

need to be shown the irrefutable proof

I agree, especially if the eternal destiny of my soul depends on the decisions I make based on the information I am given.

wykael · Mar 4, 2005

God speaks to humanity all the time. But He promised that He would not contradict His written word. When He speaks to us today, He expands on the Bible, not contradicts it. And the Bible says that the one and only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ. It also says that He will not return until the events discussed in Revelations come to pass. This has not happened.

revelations12_12 · Mar 4, 2005

I_are_sceptical said:
Yes, it does sound like a contradiction. I haven't really figured it out myself, so I can't explain it to other people.
How can there be a separate interpretation? Perhaps because God has spoken to humanity again in recent years.

Well if God is speaking to humanity again and leaving a different message that would mean he made a huge blunder. To make sure the gospel of Christ was heard and believed God went through the trouble to lay down 109 specific prophecies through human prophets 500-1000 years before his birth to foretell of his coming. He also traced a specific lineage to prove that this was the son of god.

As follows
Mt 1:2. ABRAHAM BEGAT (or was the father of-NIV) ISAAC; AND ISAAC BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) JACOB; AND JACOB BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) JUDAS AND HIS (BROTHERS);
Mt 1:3. AND JUDAS BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) PHARES AND ZARA OF (or whose mother was) THAMAR; AND PHARES BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) ESROM; AND ESROM BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) (RAM);
Mt 1:4. AND (RAM) BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) (AMMINADAB); AND (AMMINADAB) BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) (NAHSHON); AND (NAHSHON) BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) SALMON;
Mt 1:5. AND SALMON BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) BOOZ OF (or whose mother was) RACHAB; AND BOOZ BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) OBED OF (or whose mother was) RUTH; AND OBED BEGAT JESSE;
Mt 1:6. AND JESSE BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) DAVID THE KING; AND DAVID THE KING BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) SOLOMON OF HER THAT HAD BEEN THE WIFE OF URIAS;
Mt 1:7. AND SOLOMON BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) ROBOAM; AND ROBOAM BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) ABIA; AND ABIA BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) ASA;
Mt 1:8. AND ASA BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) JOSAPHAT; AND JOSAPHAT BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) JORAM; AND JORAM BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) OZIAS;
Mt 1:9. AND OZIAS BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) JOATHAM; AND JOATHAM BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) ACHAZ; AND ACHAZ BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) EZEKIAS;
Mt 1:10. AND EZEKIAS BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) MANASSES; AND MANASSES BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) AMON; AND AMON BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) JOSIAS;
Mt 1:11. AND JOSIAS BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) JECHONIAS AND HIS (BROTHERS), ABOUT THE TIME THEY WERE CARRIED AWAY (or the exile, or deportation) TO BABYLON:
Mt 1:12. AND AFTER THEY WERE BROUGHT TO BABYLON, JECHONIAS BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) SALATHIEL; AND SALATHIEL BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) ZOROBABEL;
Mt 1:13. AND ZOROBABEL BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) ABIUD; AND ABIUD BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) ELIAKIM; AND ELIAKIM BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) AZOR;
Mt 1:14. AND AZOR BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) SADOC; AND SADOC BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) ACHIM; AND ACHIM BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) ELIUD;
Mt 1:15. AND ELIUD BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) ELEAZAR; AND ELEAZAR BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) MATTHAN; AND MATTHAN BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) JACOB;
Mt 1:16. AND JACOB BEGAT (or was the father of-JNT) JOSEPH THE HUSBAND OF MARY, OF WHOM WAS BORN JESUS (or Yeshua), WHO IS CALLED CHRIST (or the Messiah).
Mt 1:17. SO ALL THE GENERATIONS FROM ABRAHAM TO DAVID ARE FOURTEEN GENERATIONS; AND FROM DAVID UNTIL THE CARRYING AWAY (or exile, captivity, or deportation) INTO BABYLON ARE FOURTEEN GENERATIONS; AND FROM THE CARRYING AWAY (or exile, captivity, or deportation) INTO BABYLON UNTO (the time of) CHRIST (or the Messiah) ARE FOURTEEN GENERATIONS.

God is omnipotent all knowing and took specific steps to ensure the voice of his son was heard that is why Christianity has held the test of time. This was also what Jesus predicted about his church.

Is there such a storie in your religion? Is there a perfect path spanning thousands of years, predictions of the coming of the Baha'l'allah with no contradictions and miracles to support it? No need to answer that retorricle question it is just a point to ponder.

Remember what lends credence to the bible is it is a body of work spanning over thousands of years to tell one perfect storie, to deviate from that now would go against everything that was planned. There is no time to God, all that was, is, and will be, has all already happened to God and the stories conclusion is also known to him.

G4MER · Mar 4, 2005

I believe I'm going to heaven

revelations12_12 · Mar 4, 2005

I_are_sceptical said:
Interesting. I saw the Face of God through alternate studies.

I agree, especially if the eternal destiny of my soul depends on the decisions I make based on the information I am given.

When I saw the face of satan he portrayed himself as God. He was awe inspiring and awsome in his presence. As the bible warns us he is a beautiful deciever.

revelations12_12 · Mar 4, 2005

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